Preview Rnd 12 - Carlton v Fremantle Sat 15th Aug 8.10PM AEST @ Optus Stadium

[murphster]

Agree, and seeing Teague's form, when he is in (whether that is this week, next week or the week after) he will get an extended run at it, even if his first game or 2 aren't up to par...

Worth noting that he has only really played three "real-ish" games this year - Freo and Bris in the Marsh Series and Richmond Rd 1 - wasn't good against Rich Rd 1 but the Brisbane game I thought he played almost as well as I have ever seen him...didn't see the Freo game but appeared to get a bit of the ball there too...

One thing I did notice in the Richmond game was that his defensive running was a lot better than past games in 19 which was a step in the right direction.

 

[Bluesome]

Something strange happening here would have thought an update of him training maybe with Kreuzer would alai some doubts on him wasting a season of at least conditioning

I know the club doesn’t owe me anything but it would dispel some fears if they would at least mention what training he is doing running conditioning
If he stops paddling he will go backwards He doesn’t need to travel up the river but at least maintain his fitness
In this condensed season we are only a couple of injury’s away from needing him
But it’s looking like a completely wasted season for him

He or his family are clearly going through some issues and we have come far enough as a society to appreciate when this happens footy takes a back seat...

The club should not be commenting on him, and should be allowing him as much space (with support) as he needs...

He will be back when he is back, and until then all we should be worrying about is wishing him the best in what seems to be a difficult time for the young man...

 

[Coops93]

You sure? I rate Setters as being close to our best tackler in the side

He is a good tackler, but that doesn't inherently mean he's strong, which I wouldn't say he is.

FWIW Ed averages 5 tackles a game - more than Setters - so he's not bad himself.

 

[james Dean]

One thing I did notice in the Richmond game was that his defensive running was a lot better than past games in 19 which was a step in the right direction.

I also noticed him give away a 50 in the opening play of the game.

 

[murphster]

We will have to put some serious work into Brayshaw, Cerra and even Serong... a most exciting young midfield that has been given opportunity
to grow.
Interesting that the first two have come through same timeline as Dow and O'Brien but are miles ahead.

Virtually all the TAC kids this size that get drafted are on ballers ... But come into the AFL and they have to play wings or flank/pocket roles
that they have never done and can struggle.

Freo have now got games into these kids in the mid field and are reaping the benefits.

We need to do same !!

This why Paddy has to play in guts..... He is in same class as Freo boys and must be given continued opportunity to show it now fit.

We desperately need break away pace at stoppages and Fish (with Martin out) and SPS also should get some time there.



O'Brien however I feel is a natural winger and also has to play now over say Newnes.

If D.T. does not change it up and add some pace in guts then I will be very disappointed and we will probably get rolled!!!

I actually did a comparison between Cerra, Brayshaw and Dow yesterday and while Dow has played roughly 10 less games stats wise he stacks up better than Cerra and runs pretty close to Brayshaw so they are actually far from miles ahead of Dow at least and I suspect that when Dow does come back we will actually see that he is the one that is ahead.

 

[haveago]

I actually did a comparison between Cerra, Brayshaw and Dow yesterday and while Dow has played roughly 10 less games stats wise he stacks up better than Cerra and runs pretty close to Brayshaw so they are actually far from miles ahead of Dow at least and I suspect that when Dow does come back we will actually see that he is the one that is ahead.

Stats dont tell it all....watched Freo many times this year and Brayshaw is killing it. Cerra too this season is having much more impact than Paddy has to date and Serong is a little gun.......Sorry but they are MILES AHEAD IMO .

I think Paddy will be a star in time but has to get same opportunity and it needs to be now....

Ditto for Walsh.....off the wing...onto the ball

 

[Beer n Skittles]

I actually did a comparison between Cerra, Brayshaw and Dow yesterday and while Dow has played roughly 10 less games stats wise he stacks up better than Cerra and runs pretty close to Brayshaw so they are actually far from miles ahead of Dow at least and I suspect that when Dow does come back we will actually see that he is the one that is ahead.

Cerra & Brayshaw were Freo's best two players last week, and Dow can't break into our team.

Would love to see Dow come in and show that he's progressed, but for now he doesn't seem to have improved much from when we first selected him.

 

[Macca43]

Stats dont tell it all....watched Freo many times this year and Brayshaw is killing it. Cerra too this season is having much more impact than Paddy has to date and Serong is a little gun.......Sorry but they are MILES AHEAD IMO .

I think Paddy will be a star in time but has to get same opportunity and it needs to be now....

Ditto for Walsh.....off the wing...onto the ball

"This year" is the key phrase. If you look t how they all performed last year Dow stacks up really well but while the Freo trio have been able to take the next step after a second full pre-season Dow has spent the year injured. Really confident Dow can make his mark in the remaining games. Hearing Williams talk him up was a positive.

Many people were writing that whole draft off as a poor year over the off season - shows some groups just need time.

 

[murphster]

Hopefully Teague picks a side that have some miles under their belts

And this is why I doubt we will see Dow this week given he is only one scratch match back from an injury, will have to string 2-3 together to get a game I think.

 

[murphster]

You will be waiting a long time for Marchbank to play as a KPD. I have this debate each year

Yeah he’s not KP size he is a 3rd tall interceptor that can also play on mediums.

 

[Macca43]

And this is why I doubt we will see Dow this week given he is only one scratch match back from an injury, will have to string 2-3 together to get a game I think.

We have 7 games left, after Saturday night game, we have to travel back to Qld before playing the Suns in Darwin on Friday with the Suns (after Playing last night ) play again on Monday before playing us on Friday. Freo also have 9 player currently listed on their injury list. How, when, against who and in what format do you expect Dow to get a block of games in which he can force his way into the side?

We have a player in Martin going out of the side from last week and a player in Dow who was BOG (FWIW) in the 2's last week who is as close to a like for like as we have. Why would we wait?

 

[murphster]

Just a little more statistical food for thought. I suggested in an earlier post that Plowman needed to make way out of the backline for MCG. Controversial obvs.

He unfortunately is another player who really struggles to provide any competitive advantage for us. His defensive one v ones are really poor despite being above average one percenters. He’s had 42 (so a big enough sample) but has lost 35 percent. Compared to Jones (10 percent) and Weitering (15). I think he gets targeted to be one out by opponents.

He is a below average defensive tackler. He’s below average possessions. He’s below average metres gained. He’s even below average for a defender disposal efficiency.

Pretty alarming and damning actually.

There’s no doubt we have problems in our defence atm I’m just not sure as yet what or who the problem is, Doc and Willo coming back at the same time from 2 years out is definitely not helping but they have all had bad moments at times, yes even Weitering he tends to only spoil with his right and ends up spoiling it back into the corridor which is a big problem, it’s just not gelling at the moment.

Number one thing to fix as a priority is to stop letting the ball get out the back this is costing us the most week after week, this mostly comes down to the fact that at the moment we don’t have a 3rd tall interceptor/spoiler and therefore Jones is trying to do 2 things at once, cover his man and play the 3rd up spoil and when he misses the spoil it leaves his man wide open with no opponent, ditto with Plow, we are using a 7 man defence when under pressure but we need that 7th man to be Marchbank as the loose interceptor/spoiler for it to be effective and to get our defence playing how it should.

 

[Arr0w]

We have 7 games left, after Saturday night game, we have to travel back to Qld before playing the Suns in Darwin on Friday with the Suns (after Playing last night ) play again on Monday before playing us on Friday. Freo also have 9 player currently listed on their injury list. How, when, against who and in what format do you expect Dow to get a block of games in which he can force his way into the side?

We have a player in Martin going out of the side from last week and a player in Dow who was BOG (FWIW) in the 2's last week who is as close to a like for like as we have. Why would we wait?

Dow the closest like for like as Martin? Oh my

 

[Macca43]

Dow the closest like for like as Martin? Oh my

If you look at it Martin (186cm 83kg) has been attending plenty of centre clearances where we want him to use his burst speed and clean hand, 2 characteristics Dow (187cm & 83kg) shares. They are both low possession high impact players (Martin averaging 13.7 possessions this year to Dows14.3 last year) both are good marking option inside 50 (Martin averaging 1.5 this year to Dows 2 last year) and both split their contested and uncontested possession roughly the same (Martin 6.4 CP and 7.9 UP in 2020 to Dow 6.8 & 7.5) and both of them are terrible set shot at goal.

If you think a Philp, Honey, O'brien or Owies are closer to Martin go for your life.

 

[Blue__Balls]

Cerra & Brayshaw were Freo's best two players last week, and Dow can't break into our team.

Would love to see Dow come in and show that he's progressed, but for now he doesn't seem to have improved much from when we first selected him.

See, you say "for now", but what you mean is "for 6 months ago".

He's clearly been working hard on both his frame and his skills, so the time out of the senior side has been far from a waste. In fact, it may turn out to be exactly what he needed.

I find it amusing reading talk in the media about how Fisher's performance against WC showed that Carlton erred in keeping him out of the side so long. My opinion - it showed that we brought him in when he was ready to perform to the required standard. Good form in August doesn't mean he should have played in July.

I think we'll see the same with Dow, whether he plays this week, next week, or next year. He'll be coming back into the side a very different young man, and I've no doubt he'll be ready to make a statement.

 

[Blue__Balls]

He or his family are clearly going through some issues and we have come far enough as a society to appreciate when this happens footy takes a back seat...

The club should not be commenting on him, and should be allowing him as much space (with support) as he needs...

He will be back when he is back, and until then all we should be worrying about is wishing him the best in what seems to be a difficult time for the young man...

Spot on.

Club says "family reasons" and my assumption is something like a very ill family member. In that scenario, the last thing the kid needs is someone from the club following him around taking notes on how he's running so the fans can be updated.

 

[El Topo]

Our midfield combo - if this side is going anywhere - needs to be Ruck-Cripps-Setterfield-Dow. Cripps 60/40 forward/mid. Get them playing together, keep them playing together.

 

[Macca43]

See, you say "for now", but what you mean is "for 6 months ago".

He's clearly been working hard on both his frame and his skills, so the time out of the senior side has been far from a waste. In fact, it may turn out to be exactly what he needed.

I find it amusing reading talk in the media about how Fisher's performance against WC showed that Carlton erred in keeping him out of the side so long. My opinion - it showed that we brought him in when he was ready to perform to the required standard. Good form in August doesn't mean he should have played in July.

I think we'll see the same with Dow, whether he plays this week, next week, or next year. He'll be coming back into the side a very different young man, and I've no doubt he'll be ready to make a statement.

It is funny but we didn't actually keep him out for that long, he was injured for a long time, played 1 game, got crook, played 1 game, the 2's didn't play and then played a game (or something along those lines).

 

[Arr0w]

Sorry you holiness for expressing an opinion before I got it approved by you.

If you look at it Martin (186cm 83kg) has been attending plenty of centre clearances where we want him to use his burst speed and clean hand, 2 characteristics Dow (187cm & 83kg) shares. They are both low possession high impact players (Martin averaging 13.7 possessions this year to Dows14.3 last year) both are good marking option inside 50 (Martin averaging 1.5 this year to Dows 2 last year) and both split their contested and uncontested possession roughly the same (Martin 6.4 CP and 7.9 UP in 2020 to Dow 6.8 & 7.5) and both of them are terrible set shot at goal.

If you think a Philp, Honey, O'brien or Owies are closer to Martin go for your life.

Dow doesn't tackle like Martin, nor does he have the sideways momentum, overhead strength or kicking skills off both feet

I never mentioned a player as like for like, no need to even contemplate the thought

 

[Beer n Skittles]

See, you say "for now", but what you mean is "for 6 months ago".

He's clearly been working hard on both his frame and his skills, so the time out of the senior side has been far from a waste. In fact, it may turn out to be exactly what he needed.

I find it amusing reading talk in the media about how Fisher's performance against WC showed that Carlton erred in keeping him out of the side so long. My opinion - it showed that we brought him in when he was ready to perform to the required standard. Good form in August doesn't mean he should have played in July.

I think we'll see the same with Dow, whether he plays this week, next week, or next year. He'll be coming back into the side a very different young man, and I've no doubt he'll be ready to make a statement.

I don't get why you're implying I should have seen great improvement in Dow in the last 6 months. I haven't even seen him play in that time.

Hopefully he has improved greatly in his time out of the game. But surely he's actually got to show the results before you can compare him to players who are showing results?

 

[Macca43]

Dow doesn't tackle like Martin, nor does he have the sideways momentum, overhead strength or kicking skills off both feet

I never mentioned a player as like for like, no need to even contemplate the thought

And I didn't say he was identical, simply the closest like for like. Unless you can name someone more "like for like" then the point stands, if we want someone to play the role MArtin has been playing for us Dow is the obvious choice.

FWIW I think you under rate Dow in both his sideways momentum and his ability overhead.

 

[Beer n Skittles]

Dow doesn't tackle like Martin, nor does he have the sideways momentum, overhead strength or kicking skills off both feet

I never mentioned a player as like for like, no need to even contemplate the thought

"The closest thing to" implies that you actually provide an answer though.

I could say, "marmite is the closest thing to vegemite", and if someone came in ROFLing I'd expect them to at least provide an alternative.

 

[HBF]

Our midfield combo - if this side is going anywhere - needs to be Ruck-Cripps-Setterfield-Dow. Cripps 60/40 forward/mid. Get them playing together, keep them playing together.

I would also add that you could start Kennedy forward, with he and Cripps rotating.

 

[El Topo]

I would also add that you could start Kennedy forward, with he and Cripps rotating.

Absolutely - it's a bit maddening that this isn't already the case.

 

[BluStreak]

what about starting Cripps forward and saying to Setters, Kennedy etc 'its up to you'