AFL Autopsy RND 3: Done by the Roos

[Its Manbearpig]

So the first time he’s had a stinker to this level we’re going to go after him? No wonder opposition fans hate us. I know the offseason was a shocker but If anyone has earned credits it’s Merrett. Got beaten badly tonight, no question about it, but let’s not overreact here

Yes, it was a reactionary post
& probably an over reaction.

 

[southern_crusher]

I went to multiple games in 2016 and i'm unsure if we're in a better position than back then.

2016 side would smoke this group of pea hearts.

 

[Phone]

I went to multiple games in 2016 and i'm unsure if we're in a better position than back then.

probably in a better position in 2016, and then cale hooker re-signed and the band got back together and ended up in a worse position

 

[Calthorpe14]

He is such a high performing and professional player that it’s alarming he was shut down and as far from the contest as much as he was, given the broader context of the offseason drama.

I don’t think that’s unreasonable. It’s exceedingly rare for him to perform like that. Personally I’d be betting on a couple more such exhibitions before the year’s out. He’s just too good for it not to be a reflection of his inner workings IMO.

Players get shut down, it’s just part of the game. O’Sullivan did that to Butters in Rd1.

If we’re really going to question home much he tried, why’d he have 9 tackles? If you’re going to quit, are you going to do that level of defensive work?

 

[SpeckieMcVeigh]

I went to multiple games in 2016 and i'm unsure if we're in a better position than back then.

I remember 2016, we were dreaming of relaunching a rebuild around Hugh McCluggage. I also remember I had a lot of respect for the fight that our top-ups showed.

It's too bad that Dodo drafted Andy instead. Kicked off a long run of draft misses that we're paying for to this day.

 

[Mr Mojo Risin]

Very pleased we found the root cause of all our problems in Kondo, El Achkar and Nguyen. Should’ve delisted them all years ago.

 

[sameolds33]

probably in a better position in 2016, and then cale hooker re-signed and the band got back together and ended up in a worse position

We had better coaches and a more balanced team in 2016. From memory, James Kelly was an experienced calming influence in defence (and then stayed on as a defensive coach). There was no such influence last night or in the previous two weeks. MacKay and Reid couldn't hold their contested marks and were consistently out of position. It's hard to tell why that was (or who it was) from the TV but I expect, as many have said, it's the lack of defensive pressure further up the ground.

The ease in which NM brought the ball out of our F50 time and again was extraordinary. I cannot imagine what the Doggies will do. It'll be ugly.

 

[sameolds33]

It should have happened 10 years ago. We needed to clean house post saga and hit the draft. We weren’t strong enough to take that course of action. We’re eating the vegetables we should’ve eaten in 2017-2020.

I hear a lot of complaining about our performance. I get it, we’re shit. But what’s the alternative? Bring in Luke Parker types to prop us up to mid table finishes? We’ll exist in purgatory for the next 20 years.

The next couple of years will suck, but it’s the only way. The only joy we’ll get will be the rare win and performance of our young players in the face of crushing adversity. It will be worth it in the long run.

Re bolded, we couldn't hit the draft. From memory, the club's penalty was being excluded from the first two rounds of the draft for two years. There was also the economic rebuild that limited trades. These combined with the drafting biases and errors and the administrative burden of the sanctions created the perfect storm you see today.

 

[Blind Turn]

Very pleased we found the root cause of all our problems in Kondo, El Achkar and Nguyen. Should’ve delisted them all years ago.

i get what you’re saying here but I’m kind of glad that we’re protecting these kids from being smashed in their first (or second) season. They’re on a hiding to nothing getting beaten by their opponents due to our useless system. They also don’t yet have the bodies to play week-in, week-out. I didn’t like the inclusions of Gresham and then Guelfi though. If you rest the kids, who do you replace them with? Robey, Ridley, Cox, Jones, Bryan, Edwards, all need a stint in the VFL to get the miles into their legs and most are talls anyway. That leaves only Unwin really and he is probably the one I was disappointed they didn’t give a go to this week rather than the two I mentioned who shouldn’t be on our list. However, he wasn’t exactly knocking the door down either.

 

[outersanctum]

Our list isn't good enough and we are not even in a position to start suggesting we are in a rebuild. A rebuild is when you have a clear plan, a core base you are going to build from and a clear game plan you are working to implement. We have none of those things.

Scott is a disaster as a coach and is not the future. Must be moved on and moved on quickly.

Langford and Parish are roasted, cooked, done, finished but given our extreme lack of options, I would keep playing them in the hope they put in a few vintage performances. Ridley and Redman consistently joining the injury list doesn't help. Making McGrath, perhaps the softest #1 pick in history, the captain was a large mistake. McGrath has no ability to win the contested ball, no ability to inspire and leads the clanger brigade more often than not.

Caddy is exciting but isn't working hard enough and leads to the wrong areas consistently. Kako is exciting but not working in tandem with his leading forwards.

The regression of Roberts, Caldwell and Durham is scary. They look like shadows of the players we thought they were.

Our basic football skills are not there, we can't kick or handball with consistency and most of the team are panic agents. Composure is an over used word but apt in this situation. I believe the lack of composure and the panic on show is partially a result of the non existent game plan. They simply do not seem to know what they are meant to be doing, nor how to do anything much really.

This is as low as I have seen the club and that included the saga years. There is no heart, no passion and absolutely not enough talent on this list to have hope we will be ready to compete in even another decade. Holding on to Merrett was a mistake, not because he isn't a gun football but because we are nowhere near ready to need a player of his quality. We should have taken the picks on offer and given ourselves another few chances to pick up some quality.

Until we change the coach and the entire club approach.. nothing will change.

 

[doug85]

Re bolded, we couldn't hit the draft. From memory, the club's penalty was being excluded from the first two rounds of the draft for two years. There was also the economic rebuild that limited trades. These combined with the drafting biases and errors and the administrative burden of the sanctions created the perfect storm you see today.

Post saga.

I.e. after 2016

 

[Lore]

Re bolded, we couldn't hit the draft. From memory, the club's penalty was being excluded from the first two rounds of the draft for two years. There was also the economic rebuild that limited trades. These combined with the drafting biases and errors and the administrative burden of the sanctions created the perfect storm you see today.

Those penalties were served more than ten years ago, in the 2013 and 2014 drafts (the years we got Fantasia and Merrett, Langford and Laverde as our only picks because we had to trade players out to get picks in the door).

We tried to backfill that part of the list a few times but we’ve ended up delisting nearly everyone we brought in from that age group.

 

[Gumby2Hurley]

I remember 2016, we were dreaming of relaunching a rebuild around Hugh McCluggage. I also remember I had a lot of respect for the fight that our top-ups showed.

It's too bad that Dodo drafted Andy instead. Kicked off a long run of draft misses that we're paying for to this day.

i just wonder if Hugh would’ve become a goal kicking midfielder for us had we drafted him and whether Andy would have become something like Lachie Ash had the giants been able to draft him because iirc the giants drafted Ash the year after?

 

[Squeaky]

It should have happened 10 years ago. We needed to clean house post saga and hit the draft. We weren’t strong enough to take that course of action. We’re eating the vegetables we should’ve eaten in 2017-2020.

I hear a lot of complaining about our performance. I get it, we’re shit. But what’s the alternative? Bring in Luke Parker types to prop us up to mid table finishes? We’ll exist in purgatory for the next 20 years.

The next couple of years will suck, but it’s the only way. The only joy we’ll get will be the rare win and performance of our young players in the face of crushing adversity. It will be oworth it in the long run.

Dead right, as unpalatable as it is.
If we shit the bed and go for quick fixes now it will show that we learn nothing and we'll be back here again in 7 or 8 years. We need to suck it up.
We supporters don't deserve this shit, but there is no better way.

 

[Mr Mojo Risin]

i get what you’re saying here but I’m kind of glad that we’re protecting these kids from being smashed in their first (or second) season. They’re on a hiding to nothing getting beaten by their opponents due to our useless system. They also don’t yet have the bodies to play week-in, week-out. I didn’t like the inclusions of Gresham and then Guelfi though. If you rest the kids, who do you replace them with? Robey, Ridley, Cox, Jones, Bryan, Edwards, all need a stint in the VFL to get the miles into their legs and most are talls anyway. That leaves only Unwin really and he is probably the one I was disappointed they didn’t give a go to this week rather than the two I mentioned who shouldn’t be on our list. However, he wasn’t exactly knocking the door down either.

We are in far greater need of holding our senior players to account. A different club with the same ratio of senior to junior players I’d be more in agreement with you. But the reality is our senior players don’t protect the young ones much anyway.

 

[sameolds33]

Those penalties were served more than ten years ago, in the 2013 and 2014 drafts (the years we got Fantasia and Merrett, Langford and Laverde as our only picks because we had to trade players out to get picks in the door).

We tried to backfill that part of the list a few times but we’ve ended up delisting nearly everyone we brought in from that age group.

Yes, at the time (2013, 2014) there was a lot of talk about the long term effects of the sanctions, including that we needed to get everything right for there not to be a 10 year lag in getting back on track (delayed player development) as a result of being shut out of draft. The club had to balance the picks we did get with the other sanction requirements so it could be kept viable. It also had to honor the commitments made to the banned players.

Clearly poor decision making about player selection at the draft since 2016 has compounded the on field consequences of the economic reforms that needed to be put in place (via Tanner and Campbell) following the draft restrictions.

When people talk about the number of days since the last finals win, they forget the unprecedented set back that the saga had on the club. It was always going to take 10 years or longer - even if we got everything right on player retention and drafting (which we clearly didn't).

 

[Nifft]

At least we're off the bottom of the ladder.

So who do we play next week..... ok, never mind.

 

[Doss]

It should have happened 10 years ago. We needed to clean house post saga and hit the draft. We weren’t strong enough to take that course of action. We’re eating the vegetables we should’ve eaten in 2017-2020.

I hear a lot of complaining about our performance. I get it, we’re shit. But what’s the alternative? Bring in Luke Parker types to prop us up to mid table finishes? We’ll exist in purgatory for the next 20 years.

The next couple of years will suck, but it’s the only way. The only joy we’ll get will be the rare win and performance of our young players in the face of crushing adversity. It will be worth it in the long run.

Nuance is not allowed here, give yourself an uppercut.

 

[Mr Bultitude]

It was always going to take 10 years or longer

Back in 2016 that’s what I told myself. Grim but realistic.

Man I’m glad I didn’t watch last night. I can’t remember the last time I was this disinterested.

 

[sameolds33]

Our youth is so far behind WC, judging the way each team played PA at the same venue.

 

[Blind Turn]

Our list isn't good enough and we are not even in a position to start suggesting we are in a rebuild. A rebuild is when you have a clear plan, a core base you are going to build from and a clear game plan you are working to implement. We have none of those things.

Scott is a disaster as a coach and is not the future. Must be moved on and moved on quickly.

Langford and Parish are roasted, cooked, done, finished but given our extreme lack of options, I would keep playing them in the hope they put in a few vintage performances. Ridley and Redman consistently joining the injury list doesn't help. Making McGrath, perhaps the softest #1 pick in history, the captain was a large mistake. McGrath has no ability to win the contested ball, no ability to inspire and leads the clanger brigade more often than not.

Caddy is exciting but isn't working hard enough and leads to the wrong areas consistently. Kako is exciting but not working in tandem with his leading forwards.

The regression of Roberts, Caldwell and Durham is scary. They look like shadows of the players we thought they were.

Our basic football skills are not there, we can't kick or handball with consistency and most of the team are panic agents. Composure is an over used word but apt in this situation. I believe the lack of composure and the panic on show is partially a result of the non existent game plan. They simply do not seem to know what they are meant to be doing, nor how to do anything much really.

This is as low as I have seen the club and that included the saga years. There is no heart, no passion and absolutely not enough talent on this list to have hope we will be ready to compete in even another decade. Holding on to Merrett was a mistake, not because he isn't a gun football but because we are nowhere near ready to need a player of his quality. We should have taken the picks on offer and given ourselves another few chances to pick up some quality.

Until we change the coach and the entire club approach.. nothing will change.

I’m sick of this notion that somehow the Hawthorn picks on offer would help us more than our best player being on the park to take a load of responsibility off the kids. We are already bereft of senior talent to take the load off. The Hawthorn picks were utter shit. We ended up with their top pick offer anyway and we couldn’t use any extra picks. What more could we have gotten from the draft than we got? We did really well in last year’s draft. It’s one of the few successes of late. Any other player on our list and I might agree with you. But not our only elite player, reigning BnF, and captain at the time, who should give us something at the pointy end of the draft. Add to that the farce of basement clubs being held to ransom (right to the end of trade period), for their best contracted players… that is something that we should never be entertaining. It was undoubtedly the right decision but emotions take hold of our rationality when we lose badly, don’t it?

 

[sameolds33]

I’m sick of this notion that somehow the Hawthorn picks on offer would help us more than our best player being on the park to take a load of responsibility off the kids. We are already bereft of senior talent to take the load off. The Hawthorn picks were utter shit. We ended up with their top pick offer anyway and we couldn’t use any extra picks. What more could we have gotten from the draft than we got? We did really well in last year’s draft. It’s one of the few successes of late. Any other player on our list and I might agree with you. But not our only elite player, reigning BnF, and captain at the time, who should give us something at the pointy end of the draft. Add to that the farce of basement clubs being held to ransom (right to the end of trade period), for their best contracted players… that is something that we should never be entertaining. It was undoubtedly the right decision but emotions take hold of our rationality when we lose badly, don’t it?

I can't even imagine the depths of despair there would be - right across the club, from supporters upwards - if Merrett and Ridley had left. We'd likely have a JHF situation with our next high draft pick at the least. Not to mentioned no incentive for players to resign so we have any chance of going to the next level.

 

[Nifft]

Our youth is so far behind WC, judging the way each team played PA at the same venue.

Actually we have some very good youth. I think they could form the nucleus of a pretty good team in the future.

I have more of an issue with our older players. We've extended some of the contracts too much and have too much deadwood. These older players look like they're just treading water and could pass on bad habits to the younger ones. Moving some of these on at the end of this year and next will help the team a lot.

 

[Nifft]

I’m sick of this notion that somehow the Hawthorn picks on offer would help us more than our best player being on the park to take a load of responsibility off the kids. We are already bereft of senior talent to take the load off. The Hawthorn picks were utter shit. We ended up with their top pick offer anyway and we couldn’t use any extra picks. What more could we have gotten from the draft than we got? We did really well in last year’s draft. It’s one of the few successes of late. Any other player on our list and I might agree with you. But not our only elite player, reigning BnF, and captain at the time, who should give us something at the pointy end of the draft. Add to that the farce of basement clubs being held to ransom (right to the end of trade period), for their best contracted players… that is something that we should never be entertaining. It was undoubtedly the right decision but emotions take hold of our rationality when we lose badly, don’t it?

It was a lose lose situation. Hawthorne's offer was crap and we couldn't accept it. But keeping Merrett was a poisoned chalice. He just doesn't want to be here and he stated that very clearly in words and actions.

Best case is we get a better offer this year for him, because we'll get screwed the year after on compensation when he leaves because Tassie's coming in.

 

[Blind Turn]

It was a lose lose situation. Hawthorne's offer was crap and we couldn't accept it. But keeping Merrett was a poisoned chalice. He just doesn't want to be here and he stated that very clearly in words and actions.

Best case is we get a better offer this year for him, because we'll get screwed the year after on compensation when he leaves because Tassie's coming in.

Sure, but I still think that when you weigh it all up, we made the right call. It doesn’t mean it’s going to be a call that reaps obvious benefits because, as you infer, we were never ‘winning’ in this scenario. We could only do the thing the bent us over the least.