AFL Toast Rnd 6: Win Against Collingwood

[eth-dog]

So applying the tackle adds pressure, therefore it's more pressure than no pressure. Glad you understand.

If you apply it correctly, yes.

If you apply it and it gets broken, no. It's a pretty simple concept.

 

[Shane Heard]

The way we played yesterday was comparable to the relentless attacking style that MFC, Port and Dogs are displaying every quarter.

We did it in many games last year too and this man on mark rule is allowing fast play-on teams to get the ball into F50 and putting opposition defenders under enormous pressure.

It’s good signs we’re improving.

 

[astrowizzle]

Back onto what matters.

That game was something to be excited about. Absolute team effort.
The kids look great.
We have plenty of quality to come back in.
Now rinse and repeat and smash Carlton next week

 

[owen87]

If you apply it correctly, yes.

If you apply it and it gets broken, no. It's a pretty simple concept.

It is a simple concept, one you appear to misunderstand. It's not a zero-sum equation.

 

[eth-dog]

It is a simple concept, one you appear to misunderstand. It's not a zero-sum equation.

Oh I understand your point. I'm saying it's wrong.

 

[owen87]

Oh I understand your point. I'm saying it's wrong.

And you'd be incorrect.

 

[Chief Hopper]

Pretty nice winning against Collingwood. Ha only a couple Herald Sun tipsters picked us to win.

 

[Mr Bultitude]

If in the time it takes for a player to stand and break a tackle they are immediately set upon again, have less time to come to compose and effectively dispose of the ball, or there are now enough numbers around play to try and force a stoppage, then I'd say that's added pressure, yeah? Simple.

I can understand some who disagree, we've watched the opposition break our tackles for yonks.

 

[Lore]

Physical pressure isn't just broken tackles anyway.

It's also this:

 

[TheGrizz]

If you chase somebody from 20 metres away and finish 15 metres away from them when they dispose of it you get more points than if you corral someone on the boundary line and cause them to turnover the ball.

Which do you think is more valuable?

Do you have any evidence that Champion data consider this to be a chase to qualify for points?

 

[HirdsTheWord]

so anyways * carlton

 

[coastalpipeline]

Players are helping eachother out. Even after the game Stringer showing Darcy that it's his name written on the medal."Look Darce upon further inspection ..... Great game!

 

[eth-dog]

Do you have any evidence that Champion data consider this to be a chase to qualify for points?

A guy who used to work there

 

[EnolaGay]

Sidebottom had the most "pressure acts" of the game?

Just goes to show how useless the stat is.

Unless butchering the ball and putting your teammates under pressure counts as a pressure act?

 

[EnolaGay]

Don't be rude. I've agreed that they're weighted. The problem is that a pressure score and a pressure act are not the same thing. It is not worth 1.5 acts or whatever.

A pressure score would be in the hundreds, as per a couple of years ago when Dev Smith clocked a score of 230. I don't think we even have access to that as a stat anymore because it's garbage, unless it's in Champion Data's Stat Bible thing that they publish annually.

Devon's pressure

New recruit Devon Smith is smashing the competition in pressure points.

www.essendonfc.com.au

Refer to the last line of the quote. These are not the same stat.

Edumacate him Lore!

 

[ant555]

Sidebottom had the most "pressure acts" of the game?

Just goes to show how useless the stat is.

And that is why you did not notice exactly how good Dev Smith was. Stats are stats but they all work in with each other.
You most likely missed Sidebottom as well as you never see it in the game. More than likely the reason you are always dropping Guelfi as well.
Funny thing that the sides with the highest pressure games over 4 quarters always win. The stat in isolation may not look great but the more times you pressure the more doubt you are putting the opposition in.
Lesson over.

 

[eth-dog]

And that is why you did not notice exactly how good Dev Smith was. Stats are stats but they all work in with each other.
You most likely missed Sidebottom as well as you never see it in the game. More than likely the reason you are always dropping Guelfi as well.
Funny thing that the sides with the highest pressure games over 4 quarters always win. The stat in isolation may not look great but the more times you pressure the more doubt you are putting the opposition in.
Lesson over.

Because I disagree with you? Gotcha.

A broken tackle is worth more than a bloke corraling someone into skill errors 3 times. All I need to know about how "valuable" the pressure ratings are.

 

[ant555]

Because I disagree with you? Gotcha.

A broken tackle is worth more than a bloke corraling someone into skill errors 3 times. All I need to know about how "valuable" the pressure ratings are.

I never said anything about broken tackles. FFS read !
You are bloody predictable. You always miss the what I am talking about. Seriously Eth. You have not passed 30 and you know everything.
I have always said stats in isolation are not the be all and end all. We have discussed it while watching games.
Anyway WTF would I know.

 

[BrunoV]

Do you feel vindicated for not jumping off the Laverde bandwagon?

I do!

I'm not going to claim vindication as I was never going to let go.

 

[Towno78]

Because I disagree with you? Gotcha.

A broken tackle is worth more than a bloke corraling someone into skill errors 3 times. All I need to know about how "valuable" the pressure ratings are.

You have offered quite valid arguments that point to flaws in the scoring system.

The stats aren't perfect, that does not mean they are useless.

 

[eth-dog]

I never said anything about broken tackles. FFS read !
You are bloody predictable. You always miss the what I am talking about. Seriously Eth. You have not passed 30 and you know everything. Take a tip for once.

Seriously? I have a criticism about a flawed stat and you're acting as if I don't know what I'm talking about.

In the pressure rating system any "physical" pressure is worth 3.75 points. Which includes broken tackles. I'm a nut for statistics, you know this, which is why I criticise this one so much. The metric itself is flawed, how can someone corraled to kicking it out on the full be worth roughly 30% of someone attempting to lay a tackle and failing? I think pressure acts would be an important guide if it was appropriately used, but certain measurements within it doesn't accurately reflect that.

As Lore suggested earlier, if it was used specifically to how disposals were affected by said act it would be a much more useful statistic. Unfortunately it doesn't. Just applying the value per affected disposal would be better, and a more accurate display of what's happening.

 

[Lore]

Seriously? I have a criticism about a flawed stat and you're acting as if I don't know what I'm talking about.

In the pressure rating system any "physical" pressure is worth 3.75 points. Which includes broken tackles. I'm a nut for statistics, you know this, which is why I criticise this one so much. The metric itself is flawed, how can someone corraled to kicking it out on the full be worth roughly 30% of someone attempting to lay a tackle and failing? I think pressure acts would be an important guide if it was appropriately used, but certain measurements within it doesn't accurately reflect that.

As Lore suggested earlier, if it was used specifically to how disposals were affected by said act it would be a much more useful statistic. Unfortunately it doesn't. Just applying the value per affected disposal would be better, and a more accurate display of what's happening.

What value do you think a broken tackle should be given, relative to a rib tickler or corralling, closing, chasing..?

Assuming it has to be a set value and not a relative one (can you imagine the work that would have to go into a relative stat?)

 

[eth-dog]

What value do you think a broken tackle should be given, relative to a rib tickler or corralling, closing, chasing..?

Assuming it has to be a set value and not a relative one (can you imagine the work that would have to go into a relative stat?)

I would have it lower than all of them.

 

[Lore]

I would have it lower than all of them.

What are we defining as a broken tackle then? Are there different levels? e.g.

 

[ant555]

Seriously? I have a criticism about a flawed stat and you're acting as if I don't know what I'm talking about.

In the pressure rating system any "physical" pressure is worth 3.75 points. Which includes broken tackles. I'm a nut for statistics, you know this, which is why I criticise this one so much. The metric itself is flawed, how can someone corraled to kicking it out on the full be worth roughly 30% of someone attempting to lay a tackle and failing? I think pressure acts would be an important guide if it was appropriately used, but certain measurements within it doesn't accurately reflect that.

As Lore suggested earlier, if it was used specifically to how disposals were affected by said act it would be a much more useful statistic. Unfortunately it doesn't. Just applying the value per affected disposal would be better, and a more accurate display of what's happening.

No as usual you have completely missed the point. My point had nothing to do with a champion data stat. Absolutely nothing. Never mentioned it.
My point was you generally miss the players who are pressuring the opposition. Nothing to do with reading stats. Dev Smith yesterday is an example.

As Lore pointed out there are two different ratings anyway.
Champion data's pressure rating is a general stat. In isolation it does not mean much. Even more so if you isolate broken tackles as being worth pressure points. It is designed to give an idea the teams overall pressure effort. Sure a broken tackle is one of the worst things in a game but that is not what the stat is about. It is about the overall effort to put pressure on. It is a marker for effort. It is like the inside 50 stat. On its own pretty useless but if you combine it with say the tackles and broken tackles and tackles in the forward half or back half and the chases then you start to get a picture. Problem is people tend to take all the champion data stats literally rather than collation of data to be used with other stats.
You get to look at your overall pressure / intent. Then you notice broken tackles which is a recorded stat within all clubs . So then you get the picture. You can pick up the intent / effort but also know you need to work on sticking the tackles to get maximum result for the pressure rating. It is like inside 50 stats. You need to know how well you convert them and have an indication of how deep they are which clubs do get but the media dumbs down into a stat during coverage. You ask how forcing someone to kick on the full is the same value as a broken tackle ? well the stat is not about that. The stat is a basic stat about effort. You then use the other individual stats to break that down.

Best way to have the full picture. See the game live. Study the stats and then watch the game back a couple of times where you can stop and start. Isolating one are and forming an opinion is not getting the full picture.
Also not everyone gets access to the full range of champion data stats including breakdown of indicators that are used to make the stat. You are not working with the full picture .