Autopsy Rnd 7: Done by the Blues

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citizen-erased

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Kind of funny. We lost, and the Blues got the win they needed to have.

But the media is still focusing on us and how good our future is looking.

I was furious at some of the decisions yesterday (both the umpiring and our players) but thinking over it, so many good highlights from the kids. Perkins, Jones, Cox and Bryan.

Kind of keen to see how Baldwin progresses.
I had zero awareness of him until we picked him up. Reading the draft year articles & seeing his size....i'm getting prematurely pumped for this him.
Going to be nervous every time he plays too. Please ACL gods. be kind!
 

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citizen-erased

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I'd just keep the 2022 1st rounder. No guarantee how we'll go next year. Every chance we finish in a similar position to where we'll finish this season (Bottom 10, closer to Bottom 4 than Top 8).
True, but we need a bit of depth.
If Merrett & Parish stay, i'd be happy with another sharp addition with our 2021 1st, then look to build a bit of depth via 2 later picks.
i.e. depending on where picks end up, Lions & Tigers have 2x 1sts this year (tied up with Cats and Dees as well). It seems likely they will be late 1st rounders.
And bring 3 kids through at the same time (a la Cox, Perkins, Reid)
 

Megabattimus

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True, but we need a bit of depth.
If Merrett & Parish stay, i'd be happy with another sharp addition with our 2021 1st, then look to build a bit of depth via 2 later picks.
i.e. depending on where picks end up, Lions & Tigers have 2x 1sts this year (tied up with Cats and Dees as well). It seems likely they will be late 1st rounders.
And bring 3 kids through at the same time (a la Cox, Perkins, Reid)
We can probably get extra picks in this draft without compromising our 2022 draft hand.
 

BrunoV

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Love this from Cornes (I know, I know)


It's standard nonsensical Cornes.

Was anyone expecting Carlton to finish higher than 6th? All of the sides they have lost to so far indicate they are on track (if you accept that Pies side was dramatically different back in round 2).

He like so many others make too many comments without understanding the bigger picture.

They had Setterfield, Williamson, De Koning (I'd have as only slightly behind Bryan as a ruck prospect and he's a few years advanced) and O'Brien play reserves yesterday in addition to some other players who are more speculative and who I know nothing about. We had in a descending list of their contributions to list health: Brand, Eyre, Ambrose, Waterman, BZT, Cahill and Johnson and got belted.

They played 2 yesterday who probably aren't being though of as players for 2022 and on, Owies and Cottrell. Parks debuted (and look like the depth he is).

Martin, Williams, Silvagni and Fisher injured.

Kemp (pick 18 in 2019) and Philp (pick 20 in 2019) didn't play in either match.

Curnow and Marchbank are LTIs with questionable health. On paper they are not just best 22 but very good players.

We can add 4 players to that team to make it better: Draper, Caldwell, Shiel and Francis. They have a choice of 8-13 players (if you include SPS who didn't start) who they could add to improve the team they selected yesterday. Admittedly that includes a couple of untested kids but if our previously untested kids are anything to go by...

A lot more should go into a discussion about list health than an overreaction to a single game without any apparent understanding of the respective lists. There was no top up either, not in the sense they sacrificed the future (maybe even trading out 3 first round picks in a row). They spent a list spot and available cap space on Martin and Williams. It was a solitary first pick for Saad. Some of their kids I don't like, O'Brien and Dow for example, but the list is in a very good position. It's not perfect but they can just sit back, look at the available agents for the middle of the ground, draft for the middle and key defensive posts and it should not be hard to set up a sustained attack on the top 4.


Edit: the premiership race part of the discussion is just dumb. It helps to distort the argument to being about a select few players when the reality is that it is list depth that puts a side into the fight for the top 6 and top 4 and that you can only really "plan" for a premiership from there. How do you seriously plan for a premiership when you have even seen what you have hold up in the heat of finals? Premierships are goals, aspirations but they're not plans not from where Carlton and Essendon 2020 started from.

It's also not the list but the set-up and defence of the ground that is holding them back but we can't attack coaches until we can.
 
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citizen-erased

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It is interesting how you view Draper as an out but De Koning is speculative. Draper has played 1 more game. To me they are both injury prone promising future rucks at pretty much the same points in their careers.
Draper isn't a future ruck. He's our number 1 now. Was shown at back end of last year and start of this.
If fit, he's not playing VFL.
I'd say Bryan & TDK are the two you compare. Both still developing but early signs indicate best 22 players.

Didn't our kids pump theirs in the 2s?
Zero midfield depth. From that game we'd be banking Reid, Eyre, Waterman and Brand break into the 22.
And it's not like we lacked for KPD/KPF yesterday.
Setterfield, O'Brien & Kennedy should have had a field day.
 

bombreys

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The positive is that this time last year, we wouldn’t have been playing the kids, who were the highlight.

Our players just couldn’t hit targets for whatever reason. Merrett tried hard all night and seemed the only one who could hit someone on a lead. Langford’s massive form slump continues. McGrath and Parish found a bit of it, but just did nothing with it. Heppell the same. Ham’s frustrating at times too - I know he’s small, but he’s petrified of any sort of contact - there’s a lot of poor man’s Brad Hill about him.

Laverde was brilliant, as was Jones. Perkins looks an absolute jet. Overall, it seemed to really be the skills of our midfield that let us down.
 

bombreys

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Too many Passengers. The perils of a young side. It hurts but we'll learn from this one, that's the important thing.
I could be imagining things and letting the kids off easy, but I thought they sort of kept us in the game - I thought it was more the senior blokes playing like passengers (bar the obvious Hooker, Tippa). Disagree?
 

Sector 7G

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Draper isn't a future ruck. He's our number 1 now. Was shown at back end of last year and start of this.
If fit, he's not playing VFL.
I'd say Bryan & TDK are the two you compare. Both still developing but early signs indicate best 22 players.


Zero midfield depth. From that game we'd be banking Reid, Eyre, Waterman and Brand break into the 22.
And it's not like we lacked for KPD/KPF yesterday.
Setterfield, O'Brien & Kennedy should have had a field day.
TDK played his first game back after an 8 week lay off. Will be our first ruck in 2 weeks time. Very highly rated but has been injury prone.

Pretty sure our 2nds did have a field day, winning by 6.13 with TDK having 31 hitouts on limited minutes

It is not as if Draper is a top 10 ruck in the league and his durability is suspect. While he is promising, he is raw with the hype not yet matching his performances.
 

Juddernaut08

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True, but we need a bit of depth.
If Merrett & Parish stay, i'd be happy with another sharp addition with our 2021 1st, then look to build a bit of depth via 2 later picks.
i.e. depending on where picks end up, Lions & Tigers have 2x 1sts this year (tied up with Cats and Dees as well). It seems likely they will be late 1st rounders.
And bring 3 kids through at the same time (a la Cox, Perkins, Reid)
Bringing in a few top kids from the same draft can really be a solid foundation.

Look at GCS with Ranking/Luko/King then Rowell/Anderson. Their medicos are worst in the land but whenever those 5 are all healthy at the same time that's a scary core.

For us, 2015 is the year but unfortunately injuries haven't allowed them all to fire at once.

Still from 2015 we netted:

Weitering (FB)
C. Curnow (CHF)
McKay (FF)
Cuningham - hopefully becomes a good mid
JSOS - excellent 3rd tall/utility
 

citizen-erased

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Bringing in a few top kids from the same draft can really be a solid foundation.

Look at GCS with Ranking/Luko/King then Rowell/Anderson. Their medicos are worst in the land but whenever those 5 are all healthy at the same time that's a scary core.

For us, 2015 is the year but unfortunately injuries haven't allowed them all to fire at once.

Still from 2015 we netted:

Weitering (FB)
C. Curnow (CHF)
McKay (FF)
Cuningham - hopefully becomes a good mid
JSOS - excellent 3rd tall/utility
Our tall stocks look good
Wright via trade
2019 - Jones (194cm), Bryan (202)
2020 - Cox (200), Reid (202), Eyre (199), Brand (196), Baldwin (194)
Add to that a new look backline of Ridley, Francis, Laverde plus Stewart/Ambrose as older, bigger FB options. Zerk is another tall but is looking like he'll slip behind the rest.

Need mids.
Setterfield, Kennedy, O'Brien are AFL mids. Playing against VFL players (Dunkley, Atley, O'Kearney)
TDK is a great young ruck. I think we chucked a tall irish Cat B defender in against him with Bryan needing to play yday.

We can feasibly hit up the MSD with 3 or 4 (if we LTI Shiel & Hurley) picks.
Grab a bunch of mids and see what comes of it.
 

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Juddernaut08

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Our tall stocks look good
Wright via trade
2019 - Jones (194cm), Bryan (202)
2020 - Cox (200), Reid (202), Eyre (199), Brand (196), Baldwin (194)
Add to that a new look backline of Ridley, Francis, Laverde plus Stewart/Ambrose as older, bigger FB options. Zerk is another tall but is looking like he'll slip behind the rest.

Need mids.
Setterfield, Kennedy, O'Brien are AFL mids. Playing against VFL players (Dunkley, Atley, O'Kearney)
TDK is a great young ruck. I think we chucked a tall irish Cat B defender in against him with Bryan needing to play yday.

We can feasibly hit up the MSD with 3 or 4 (if we LTI Shiel & Hurley) picks.
Grab a bunch of mids and see what comes of it.
Yeah sadly your kids look good.

particulary jones and perkins.

Not a fan of laverde though I didnt watch him closely.

Hope the rebuild doesnt go well in any case. ;)
 

citizen-erased

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Yeah sadly your kids look good.

particulary jones and perkins.

Not a fan of laverde though I didnt watch him closely.

Hope the rebuild doesnt go well in any case. ;)
Laverde has been surprisingly quite good down back.

Thing with the current rebuild is we're generally good at drafting bookends.
Cox and Perkins are the ones that break the norm. But they're only part of a midfield that needs a lot of work. And we haven't been able to build a decent midfield since the late 90s.
 

Juddernaut08

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I think our kids played 1s and our 2s were mostly VFL listed players. It's as relevant as your VFLW getting towelled up by our team.
Well no, seeing as the 2s contain players that both our teams hope will improve and make a difference in the ones, it is relevant.

VLFW is not relevant as those players won't ever be playing for your mens team, unless they're considering a reverse-mouncey.
 

yodellinhank

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Well no, seeing as the 2s contain players that both our teams hope will improve and make a difference in the ones, it is relevant.

VLFW is not relevant as those players won't ever be playing for your mens team, unless they're considering a reverse-mouncey.
When the team is made up of unlisted players its just as relevent.
 

citizen-erased

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Well no, seeing as the 2s contain players that both our teams hope will improve and make a difference in the ones, it is relevant.

VLFW is not relevant as those players won't ever be playing for your mens team, unless they're considering a reverse-mouncey.
VFLW comparison isn't right.
I think the point is our VFL side contains few we're banking on for the future.
3 players in that side (Brand, Eyre & Waterman) would be ones you'll see around in 3 years time.
Cutler, Ambrose, BZT, Hird, McBride, Cahill & Johnson....less than half will see this year out imo. If any if i'm brutally honest.

Most teams should beat up our VFL.

Our AFL team is the development side at the moment.
**** knows what we'll do if a midfielder goes down.
 

eth-dog

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VFLW comparison isn't right.
I think the point is our VFL side contains few we're banking on for the future.
3 players in that side (Brand, Eyre & Waterman) would be ones you'll see around in 3 years time.
Cutler, Ambrose, BZT, Hird, McBride, Cahill & Johnson....less than half will see this year out imo. If any if i'm brutally honest.

Most teams should beat up our VFL.

Our AFL team is the development side at the moment.
**** knows what we'll do if a midfielder goes down.
As things stand, I'd be surprised if the last four weren't renewed. Hird and McBride are Cat B rookies, worth another year at least. Cahill has shown bits and pieces at AFL level so worth another year. As for Johnson, he is coming off an ACL.
 

Macca18

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I don’t think I’ve seen such an over exaggerated response to a 16 point home and away win against a likely bottom 4 team.

I know we’re rivals, I know they were under the pump… but it’s been next level for a team sitting in 12th.

I thought we were bad after a win but this lot have taken it to a whole new level today. Delusions of grandeur on the largest scale.

We know where we are and where we are going… it’s clearly not going to be a great year for us win/loss wise, but when this lot are 3-6 in a couple of weeks time… then let’s see how content they are then because on the evidence of yesterday (and most of 2021), they are not going to get close to either the Bulldogs or Melbourne in the next two weeks. I couldn’t give two you-know-what what their record against them has been like in recent seasons.

Sore loser? Salty? Yeah I’ve heard it all. Neither club will be reaching great heights this year but at least we are realistic about it. We will win that fixture in the next couple of years and do so consistently thereafter.
 

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