AFL Autopsy RND3: Beaten by the Saints

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The Essendon of old would have broken down and played catch up for the entire match if they were down by 5 goals in the first quarter, let alone it happening after 2 wins beforehand to show for it.

But this outfit didn't. That's a credit to the boys for showing true grit and effort in the aftermath of a poor performance while the match was still in play - but also a show of coaching intellect from Scott in the sense that there were changes being made in real time and you could see the intensity and confidence in execution being lifted at periods when you would have wanted them to be. Just couldn't pip them in the end but that's a feature of our game that'll come with maturity and form a system built on winning flags.

The score was pretty respectable all things considered, and we've been the hardest team the Saints have played until now. And if making it level in the final quarter caused a fair few of Saints supporters to s**t their pants, then that puts a smile on my face.

It's one of those losses that can sting but usually ones that do a lot to teach and galvanize a playing group. Onto next week.
 

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gillon said:
Disclaimer, he seems like a great guy and I respect what he’s put into the club. But he should not play until we are out of finals contention.
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So next week then?
 
Couple of tweaks needed.

Heppell out.

I'd swap Massimo and Pidge, mass leg is clearly a wand but his defensive positioning is not ideal, he never finds himself goal side and is too easily worked off the ball by smart forwards. I'd maybe try put Pidge as the more defensive small who can be more balanced between defender and attacker, he is better using his run than his boot anyway. Then mass can get the more free role to use that leg to pick apart the upfield pass.
 
Happyskeret said:
Astute observation and same happened last week. We didn’t win the first two games through the air either. Not one contested mark against GC(in the forward line)I think Brad knew this too as he was using Jones as a dummy forward to bring the smalls into it with the mids chipping in. Peter Wright is a massive loss.
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frodos gardener's observation.
Weideman was better in his first game. Seemed a bit tentative and a bit slower this time around. I thought we missed Flip's marking although Draper outworked Marshall.
 
Mootsy said:
Just lacked the polish and clean skills that the saints had, basically.
our contested marking skills are deplorable and even Draper had a shocker in that regard.
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It's actually the only team stat we got smacked in. We had more of the ball and our disposal efficiency was better - so much for Saints fans' claims that they'd strangle us. Marks i50 stat is shocking though, as you'd expect. That should change when we bring in Ben King.
 
I'm actually quite happy about last night. Not the lead concession at the start but the maturity to fight back in s**t conditions. Good teams grind those back when they're down, great teams win. Still good signs for a young team. I'd have been pissed off if we didn't fight back.

Another thing is that Caldwell has the clutch gene. I had no idea.
 
We looked good when we moved the ball patiently with short kicks. Some of the longer, more speculative kicks out of defence really killed is.

Until Stringer as absolutely, 100 % fit, he simply should not be picked.

Langford forward would have made a big difference, it was like we were playing one man short in the forward line - the saints enjoyed an intercept marking bonanza.

Flip should have played over Weid who didn’t look like he could play through that injury.

Zerk out forced us to play Langers in his worst possible position.

Not a great performance at the selection table, but I accept that some of those selections were probably forced by circumstance. We just have far too many KPD injuries at the moment.
 
Brand new day and I'm still filthy about that game. There's something about losing to that mob that really grinds my gears.
 

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Vander18 said:
Have said it a few times now - we must prioritise physicality and competitiveness at selection.

Stringer shouldn’t have played, Heppell shouldn’t have played, Weideman shouldn’t have played. Phillips should have been selected and Guelfi/Hobbs/Voss should have all been in the mix.

Weideman showed us who he is - couldn’t bring the ball to ground as a forward and couldn’t provide a contest in the ruck. He is an uncompetitive footballer.

Langford was asleep at the wheel early in the first. Not sure he is a defender and not sure why we are even trying it….

Mass is supurb by foot - he’s the best field kick at the club I reckon. Needs improve his defending however.
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Totally agree with all this. Especially the Guelfi, Hobbs and Voss stuff. 100% effort all the time. Weideman won't be at the club long if he plays as soft as he did today. Langford cannot go back again, he's a forward and hell maybe even a rotational wing when Durham and Martin are resting.

I still think Walla is a better kick but they're both amazing by foot.
 
It turned out to be the style of game I was expecting against the Saints. They like to park numbers behind the footy or at the contest and clog the game up and then try and use those numbers to rebound so it can be a messy constricted game.

The first issue which we ended up adjusting to too late early was our old chestnut , allowing the defenders to run out of defense with no pressure. Even our small forwards allowed it which was disappointing. Once we adjusted that it we got back in the game.

The obvious improvement is stop kicking the ball straight to the opposition when you are under limited pressure.

Stop camping behind the footy deep in defense. Too many times we had two or three blokes behind the guy who was trying to run the footy out of defense. Put a block on or run forward. You do not need a cast of 3 to receive a backwards handball.

The work in progress is the zone defense obviously. We really need to keep hammering away at not allowing easy second or third kicks in the chain coming from defense. At the very minimum those kicks need to be pressed to a point where the ball ends up on the boundary 50 out. Can not keep leaking easy kicks back inside allowing the ground to open up. They need to locate what the opposition is doing quicker.

Moving the footy is always going to be an issue in these sort of games simply because we are not a strong marking side and have not been for a long while. When we have to kick down the line due to the personal we have we can turn it over. It is not an easy fix as it requires us to actually find a couple more decent marking players both tall and medium size.

I know a few in the media are having a shot at our short kicking game and it will be pressured against better sides but I do like that we are working hard to find the small gaps and kick forward. Sometimes you have to take what ground they give you rather than dumping the footy long down the line and getting limited results due to not having a strong marking forward line. At least we are working hard over the game to find the space. Just have to find a way to set up so we can find our blokes inside 50. It is also good we are not looking to just kick backwards or continually produce a string of handballs that go nowhere all the time.

The needs work section.

Darcy Parish. Very good after the initial part of the game but has to stop trying to defend by reading the player with the footy. It is okay to do that deep in defense as there are limited options to go to but through the middle it can be instant death as you lose focus on players in your area. Ditto for Nick martin. Both need to keep working on the transition into the defensive mode.

Sam Draper just needs to work on his concentration and it is not just when he is fatigued . He can lose focus really easily and end up out of position and lumbering into the back half under the footy and having zero impact.

Would like to see a bit more pressure from Menzie as he progresses. He has it in him. Just a bit less ball watching and a quicker transition. He got caught out a few times not being aware quick enough of defenders running off. Same for Perkins. Just got caught out watching the footy a few times.

Harry simply has to start holding more of the marks and not missing set shots from 30 meters out. I was critical of him missing the goal in the Pies game last year and it still stands . To be the player we want he has to take those opportunities. His work rate and efforts to chase and put pressure on are very good for a player his size. His running ability and ability to keep making a contest is great but he has to take the next step going forward and start holding a few more of the marks and taking the opportunities from set shots . It may be he will need a run of VFL time to fine tune his form.

Davey is just raw. We will see mistakes and at some stage he will need VFL time.

Stringer was his usual first up self. Given his previous history this was always going to happen and the question should be asked and that is why he did not play another VFL game. I will give him a tick for making a number of very long chases from defense but he was off the pace. Not sure why we wanted him at FF in a two on one contest either. I know he made enough of a contest to give Langford a crumb goal but contested marking is not his one wood.

D'Ambrosio . Sensational user of the footy. Average one on one defense. Needs to chip away at his defensive side as he is an absolute star with the footy in his hands.

The too far gone.

I do not want to be the slam Heppell train but you can not be off it. Apart from the horrible skill errors his ability to defend is horrible. He is feeble in contested situations. He dead set can not defend and it is not just his snail pace. His positioning is horrible . He gets in spots where he has zero chance of having an effect on anything. Watching him basically let multiple opposition players run through his area with no pressure is nauseating . I was a fan. I though given he had a decent pre season he may have a spike in form. I was 50000000% wrong. He is so cooked you can not identify what he was.

We are going to get a few punches in the face like this. I was pleased we worked our way back into the game. There are some improvements in what we are doing but as most of us know it is a work in progress.
 
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ant555 said:
It turned out to be the style of game I was expecting against the Saints. They like to park numbers behind the footy or at the contest and clog the game up and then try and use those numbers to rebound so it can be a messy constricted game.

The first issue which we ended up adjusting to too late early was our old chestnut , allowing the defenders to run out of defense with no pressure. Even our small forwards allowed it which was disappointing. Once we adjusted that it we got back in the game.

The obvious improvement is stop kicking the ball straight to the opposition when you are under limited pressure.

Stop camping behind the footy deep in defense. Too many times we had two or three blokes behind the guy who was trying to run the footy out of defense. Put a block on or run forward. You do not need a cast of 3 to receive a backwards handball.

The work in progress is the zone defense obviously. We really need to keep hammering away at not allowing easy second or third kicks in the chain coming from defense. At the very minimum those kicks need to be pressed to a point where the ball ends up on the boundary 50 out. Can not keep leaking easy kicks back inside allowing the ground to open up. They need to locate what the opposition is doing quicker.

Moving the footy is always going to be an issue in these sort of games simply because we are not a strong marking side and have not been for a long while. When we have to kick down the line due to the personal we have we can turn it over. It is not an easy fix as it requires us to actually find a couple more decent marking players both tall and medium size.

I know a few in the media are having a shot at our short kicking game and it will be pressured against better sides but I do like that we are working hard to find the small gaps and kick forward. Sometimes you have to take what ground they give you rather than dumping the footy long down the line and getting limited results due to not having a strong marking forward line. At least we are working hard over the game to find the space. Just have to find a way to set up so we can find our blokes inside 50. It is also good we are not looking to just kick backwards or continually produce a string of handballs that go nowhere all the time.

The needs work section.

Darcy Parish. Very good after the initial part of the game but has to stop trying to defend by reading the player with the footy. It is okay to do that deep in defense as there are limited options to go to but through the middle it can be instant death as you lose focus on players in your area. Ditto for Nick martin. Both need to keep working on the transition into the defensive mode.

Sam Draper just needs to work on his concentration and it is not just when he is fatigued . He can lose focus really easily and end up out of position and lumbering into the back half under the footy and having zero impact.

Would like to see a bit more pressure from Menzie as he progresses. He has it in him. Just a bit less ball watching and a quicker transition. He got caught out a few times not being aware quick enough of defenders running off. Same for Perkins. Just got caught out watching the footy a few times.

Harry simply has to start holding more of the marks and not missing set shots from 30 meters out. I was critical of him missing the goal in the Pies game last year and it still stands . To be the player we want he has to take those opportunities. His work rate and efforts to chase and put pressure on are very good for a player his size. His running ability and ability to keep making a contest is great but he has to take the next step going forward and start holding a few more of the marks and taking the opportunities from set shots . It may be he will need a run of VFL time to fine tune his form.

Davey is just raw. We will see mistakes and at some stage he will need VFL time.

Stringer was his usual first up self. Given his previous history this was always going to happen and the question should be asked and that is why he did not play another VFL game. I will give him a tick for making a number of very long chases from defense but he was off the pace. Not sure why we wanted him at FF in a two on one contest either. I know he made enough of a contest to give Langford a crumb goal but contested marking is not his one wood.

D'Ambrosio . Sensational user of the footy. Average one on one defense. Needs to chip away at his defensive side as he is an absolute star with the footy in his hands.

The too far gone.

I do not want to be the slam Heppell train but you can not be off it. Apart from the horrible skill errors his ability to defend is horrible. He is feeble in contested situations. He dead set can not defend and it is not just his snail pace. His positioning is horrible . He gets in spots where he has zero chance of having an effect on anything. Watching him basically let multiple opposition players run through his area with no pressure is nauseating . I was a fan. I though given he had a decent pre season he may have a spike in form. I was 50000000% wrong. He is so cooked you can not identify what he was.

We are going to get a few punches in the face like this. I was pleased we worked our way back into the game. There are some improvements in what we are doing but as most of us know it is a work in progress.
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Spot on and great summation.

Having just watched the game again and especially the first 15 minutes again on replay (why I don't know) I was trying to work out how we got jumped.. the thing that stands out is the Parish starts on the bench and Langford starts back. With Heppell and Langford down back having no pace and very 'laconic' at best of times meant StK were doing what they like. Wondering if Parish was benched for training infraction or..? We looked much better once Parish went into the middle. Very noticeable drop off when Weeds goes into the ruck.

Saints came with physicality early and it just seemed like the whole team wasn't ready for it. Redman very easily rattled and never got back into it. He and Merrett seem to suffer when they feel the umpire is against them and just drop their head.

Oh and Elani is possibly the worst umpire in the game and I don't care she is a woman.. she just makes stupid decisions. If you didn't know better you would swear the fix was in to give StK a big win on their celebration night.. early calls were disgraceful.

Most positive thing for me is yet again Scott made some brilliant 'in game' adjustments. very noticeable that he is active on game day and clearly has the playing group as they all responded. That gives me hope we are on the right track. Doesn't seem to be focussed on "we play our way no matter what" and instead responds to what is in front of us. Lyon has Saints up and about and all up, a bit disappointing to lose but also a good reality check of where we are. Signs are still positive for this group to grow together.
 
outersanctum said:
Saints came with physicality early and it just seemed like the whole team wasn't ready for it. Redman very easily rattled and never got back into it. He and Merrett seem to suffer when they feel the umpire is against them and just drop their head.
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this part rings true
outersanctum said:
Most positive thing for me is yet again Scott made some brilliant 'in game' adjustments. very noticeable that he is active on game day and clearly has the playing group as they all responded. That gives me hope we are on the right track. Doesn't seem to be focussed on "we play our way no matter what" and instead responds to what is in front of us. Lyon has Saints up and about and all up, a bit disappointing to lose but also a good reality check of where we are. Signs are still positive for this group to grow together.
Click to expand...
The “we play our way no matter what” is, I’m pretty sure, a young team teaching thing where they have to learn to do the basic stuff first and the coach doesn’t really care if we lose because we were going to lose anyway. So they don’t change stuff they just reiterate doing the basics, like pressure and structure and effort (which anyone could see we still don’t have consistently even now).

In theory you add more tactics and strategies and flexibility once they have the basics down so you don't overwhelm or confuse them, but we never really got the basics down and the last two coaches didn’t have a lot in the kit bag tactically beyond a swingman anyway. It helps if you have a tactician on the coaching panel I guess.
 
Seb78 said:
Also Webster going down when we had a run on and the play stopping halted our momentum as well I reckon. Play stopped for a good 2 mins.
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I was shouting at him to stop wasting time. :sweatsmile:
 
Yoda_ said:
Was at the game so watching the replay, almost quarter time and Jones has dropped a simple mark he SHOULD take. Weidemann has done this twice also.

They had kicks that just went over out heads, they had a clean pick up here, or a tackle just stick there.

It really was one of those nights. Credit to the Saints though, they seemed heavily under done with men but the system they have is setting them up for the future.
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Their system and their running was impressive
I like ours too but it falls apart with skill error and effort at times. And when it does we're a little slow to adjust
That will come as we develop as a group and some leaders emerge.

I am seeing in Weid what my dees mates warned. He isn't the answer. Fine for depth. CHF is still an achillies for us. But id add that the saints had a 3 gamer as their key fwd last night and made it work.

Id have flip in just to get draper fwd at times. He's a tough defensive match up and it's worked for two weeks. Why we went away from it i do not know.
Stringer was not ready. Winnable game lost on 3 selections - Weid and stringer in and heppell retained

Tick to the fortitude to not drop our heads at 5 goals to zip. Thought shiel worked incredibly hard as merrett was blanketed. Emerging as a leader.
Caldwell keeps growing. Id love to see him and hobbs in the same side just mucking in.

Quieter games for setterfield and merrett.
Whoever had Hill let him off the leash. Was everywhere they needed him to be last night.

Did we get a diagnosis on how many weeks zerk is gonna miss?
 
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