Autopsy Roast & Toast v Hawks & Changes for Eagles

[guruisatiger]

We need another tall up forward who can go into the ruck. To me it seems like Gray is the only option unless we go back to Blight or even Kosi, which would be yuck and very short-term.

It's also time to change up the midfield mix. McAuliffe needs to come into the side in place of either McIntosh or Ross.

Balta

 

[fargothegreat]

Balta

If we go back to that, then Yze needs to be sacked.

Balta is 10x better as a defender.

 

[tugga]

Should win, but wouldn't be surprised if we didn't.
Will lose to lolnorf

 

[Forensi Tiger]

You often hear this thing wheeled out where our mediocrity is explained or forgiven by us being a young side but let’s rewind two years, to Round 8, 2023, and look at the players we fielded that day who had less than 30 games. One’s now delisted and none of the other five are players that are especially good footballers - certainly none that you could declare with any confidence are going to be there if and when we’re relevant again.

Echoing what others have said. The difference is getting your hands on draft picks under 30. Yes you can find a gem in the 40s, 50s, rookie and MSD drafts but you are more likely to find good and very good players early in main draft. Including the draft later this year we will have amassed about 14 under 30 picks in last 3 years. No guarantee and some of those won’t make it and others will take a few years to become good but you give yourself a good chance with those numbers

 

[LTT]

I would have him slightly above some of those roll players who played well when they were surrounded by class, but struggled once they had to do the heavy lifting, but he is just an average player now in a poor side, so what to do.

I don't think he is playing poorly, but isn't leading when we need him too. I think he is better than last year though. Change his position to see if we can use his long kicking to better advantage, one thing he still has going for him.

Unfortunately his long kicks also are high with a lot of hang time. Easy for the defenders to get to the fall of the ball in numbers.

 

[Grrr]

Unfortunately his long kicks also are high with a lot of hang time. Easy for the defenders to get to the fall of the ball in numbers.

Not if he is kicking into the 20-30m out from goal zone. Easy to defend his kicks from the backline up the line to the wing, where resting rucks and intercepting talls are waiting, especially when it is just a kid like Faull or Armstrong they are kicking to.

Much harder to do that on the last line of defence where forwards are more often one out, and often the ball or going out the back are where the small forwards want it and defenders do not.

 

[Grrr]

And we still don't have forwards leading. Barass Mark of the year from a Kmac kick. JG was good for a few things.. lowering the eyes was one of them.
In the Freo game banks kicks to Lynch Faull and nank just out pointed by the oppo and straight back into their forward line.
Now should Smith be playing ahead of short. Well we went for Trainor to replace Rioli and Tresize has played there too. While Hugo was out.
Short is no Francis Bourke. Never has been.
Smith is playing okay in the VFL I doubt he gets a game until short is injured

Would like to see Smith over Short at half back. Would also like Brown with a more attacking license.

You are right in regard to lead up forwards. The young talls are trying, but outsized and being beaten by experienced backs who do a lot of blocking to not allow them to get to the ball. When they get there they are not strong enough to launch properly. That is why we need to play two lead up young talls, to get separation from those defensive units.

Our small forwards are dangerous and look good at times as a unit, but our talls are being asked to much of.

 

[Hoos]

Short was a good half forward and used to kick goals for fun. Dim sim turned him into a half back and while it may have looked good with the players around him he is soft and now we find out his not cut up for it.

When was he a half forward? He's been playing half back for at least the last 6-7 years.

 

[Hoos]

Now should Smith be playing ahead of short.

Absolutely he should. We would improve instantly if Short were to be dropped.

Short is no Francis Bourke. Never has been.
Smith is playing okay in the VFL I doubt he gets a game until short is injured

That's the unfortunate part. He never gets injured.

 

[theflea#3]

They run hard, a lot of running bounces.

Our list is coming along nicely, but this is another area we need to seriously look at.

Wonder if we could snag Saad El-Hawli from Essendon? Like the look of him and might struggle for a spot with their backline - bit of Bachar vibes.

 

[HumanMeatball]

Should be winning 2/3 no excuse

 

[tiger_tough]

In: McAuliffe, Gray
Out: McIntosh, Rioli

fb- Brown, Miller, Broad
hb- Vlastuin, Balta, Trainor
c- Banks, Hopper, Ralphsmith
hf- Lalor, Gray, Campbell
ff- Faull, Lynch, Mansell
r- Nank, Taranto, McAuliffe
I/C- Green, Short, Ross, Dow, Trezise

Would be our best side of the season IMO.

 

[aislegi]

At what picks were those players drafted - not sure if the exact 6, but taking a quick glance at team:

Ross = 40’s
Hugo = 40’s
Miller = 60’s
Ryan = 40’s
Clarke = 30
Mansell = rookie ?
Cumberland = 40’s

Ross, from memory, had more than 30 games at that point and wasn’t included in the six but the others look right

Echoing what others have said. The difference is getting your hands on draft picks under 30. Yes you can find a gem in the 40s, 50s, rookie and MSD drafts but you are more likely to find good and very good players early in main draft. Including the draft later this year we will have amassed about 14 under 30 picks in last 3 years. No guarantee and some of those won’t make it and others will take a few years to become good but you give yourself a good chance with those numbers

Sure, early picks can help, and we certainly saw that with Cotchin and Martin, but generally when people talk about players improving once they get 50 to 100 games under their belt, they don’t qualify the comment by saying it doesn’t count if they weren’t early picks

 

[baazzaa]

You often hear this thing wheeled out where our mediocrity is explained or forgiven by us being a young side but let’s rewind two years, to Round 8, 2023, and look at the players we fielded that day who had less than 30 games. One’s now delisted and none of the other five are players that are especially good footballers - certainly none that you could declare with any confidence are going to be there if and when we’re relevant again.

100%. our rebuild over the last few years has mostly consisted of pumping games into role players with low ceilings (e.g. Mansell) while our veterans carry the team.

I don't think Yze or Dimma really ever focused on development. They're only playing young players because we ran out of old players. But judge them by say, who gets centre clearances, and you see Yze is more willing to put Kmac1 in there than Kmac2 or Sonsie.

I'm also not wholly sold on playing everyone on form. Dow's one of our only bright spots this year besides the new draftees, and he got there because the coaching staff clearly figured he had potential and played him despite poor performances. Maybe Cumberland or RCD would have become good players (they had the talent) if they'd gotten the Dow treatment.

 

[THE_GUN]

In : Alger - McAuliffe - Blight - Grey
Out : McIntosh - Ross - Mrj - Miller

 

[Forensi Tiger]

Ross, from memory, had more than 30 games at that point and wasn’t included in the six but the others look right



Sure, early picks can help, and we certainly saw that with Cotchin and Martin, but generally when people talk about players improving once they get 50 to 100 games under their belt, they don’t qualify the comment by saying it doesn’t count if they weren’t early picks

True but in an ordinary team you can get to 50 games - dosing mean you are good.

 

[sabso]

True but in an ordinary team you can get to 50 games - dosing mean you are good.

Norf have got a few in that range experience wise, it doesn’t seem to be helping them that much but it might be because they’re playing for norf.

 

[strauchy]

If McAuliffe isn't in, then serious questions need to be asked from the selection team. Really should be in and playing the rest of the year. Give him a go and let him earn the spot!

Wouldn't mind giving Rioli a spell, and a couple others needing a rest.

 

[Truetiger]

In : Alger - McAuliffe - Blight - Miller
Out : McIntosh - Ross - Mrj - Grey

Grey out? Didn’t play last week did he not.

 

[THE_GUN]

Grey out? Didn’t play last week did he not.

My Bad
miller and grey in the wrong spots

 

[guruisatiger]

If we go back to that, then Yze needs to be sacked.

Balta is 10x better as a defender.

But is the team better with noah as a defender

 

[wegetpumped]

When was he a half forward? He's been playing half back for at least the last 6-7 years.

LOL didn't i say dim sim turned him into a HB? He played his younger years as a forward came to us as a half forward and played in the vfl as a forward.

 

[aislegi]

True but in an ordinary team you can get to 50 games - dosing mean you are good.

Exactly - a good player might turn into a great player, in time, but a player who doesn’t have much ability will invariably remain a player who doesn’t have much ability; and I fear we have more than our share of them

 

[ShereKhan]

True but in an ordinary team you can get to 50 games - dosing mean you are good.

Getting to 50 games doesn’t mean they’re a good player. But majority of players are much better in game 50 than they were in game 20. So you can’t place final judgement on players too early. If someone gets 50+ games under their belt and they are still crap, they’re probably cooked as a player.

It’s no coincidence Mansell (58) and Hugo (54) are just now establishing themselves and have began playing decent football.

And also no coincidence Dow (42) is also playing much better football than he has previously … he’ll only get better over the next 20 games. Whether it ends up good enough to be a long term player for us isn’t certain yet. But I’m glad we will let him get to that 50-game milestone to see if he can make the grade.

 

[ShereKhan]

Exactly - a good player might turn into a great player, in time, but a player who doesn’t have much ability will invariably remain a player who doesn’t have much ability; and I fear we have more than our share of them

The trouble is we see a player who has played 15 games and think that’s the finished product and all we will get. It’s why the constant criticism of Tresize with 16 games baffles me.

Almost every single player is significantly better at 50 games than 20 games. To a level it’s usually not even close. So if I see an inexperienced player who shows even glimpses of talent and AFL level qualities - even occasionally … I know I’ll see those traits a lot more when they’ve played another season or two.

I’ve seen Tresize play some excellent quarters of football, and even have some good overall games. He’s done some things where I think ‘wow, that was good’. So I can look past his occasional hacked kicks and mistakes, knowing at 16-games he’s still learning the caper and going to get better with every game he plays.

But I’m guilty as well … I’ve written of MRJ, Broad, Astbury and more over the years … all of them before they got anywhere near 50-games, despite them all having great moments early in their careers.