Autopsy Roast & toast vs Brisbane round 10 & changes for Adelaide round 11

[tigers12]

Did Tex get off his sling tackle on Oliver I haven’t heard anything?

 

[HTT]

The ******** doesn't even know what sliding doors means.

Pisses me off because an actual sliding doors article going in depth into one moment each week and looking an an alternate pathway would be so good.

 

[CASEYS9420]

Pickett's suspended right? not sure why hes in so many teams.

I'd like to see Edwards replace Ralphsmith in the backline because he was exceptional in this role in 2019. Baker to replace George as the high pressure forward. CCJ in as 2nd ruck/KPF. Houli stays in for some flexibility with Edwards.

BP: Grimes - Astbury - Balta
HB: Short - Vlas - Edwards
C: Caddy - Prestia - KMac
HF: Bolton - JR8 - Aarts
FF: Baker - Lynch - CCJ
FOL: Nank - Cotchin - Martin
INT: Graham - RCD - Houli - Broad - SUB: Ross/Mansell

 

[HTT]

Pickett's suspended right? not sure why hes in so many teams.

I'd like to see Edwards replace Ralphsmith in the backline because he was exceptional in this role in 2019. Baker to replace George as the high pressure forward. CCJ in as 2nd ruck/KPF. Houli stays in for some flexibility with Edwards.

BP: Grimes - Astbury - Balta
HB: Short - Vlas - Edwards
C: Caddy - Prestia - KMac
HF: Bolton - JR8 - Aarts
FF: Baker - Lynch - CCJ
FOL: Nank - Cotchin - Martin
INT: Graham - RCD - Houli - Broad - SUB: Ross/Mansell

We’re appealing

 

[db26]

We're to predictable now and we have changed it up we're hoping it will click , but it's clearly not happening be with before and with injuries unless we fine tune a few things it will be very hard.

 

[Sol23]

Not hard at all, that's what I see and I have praised Bachar like no other, so for me to say this I'm taking the rose coloured glasses off.

Look Houli is one of many, u can add in Astbury, Rioli, Castagna all below par. Were you at marvel v GWS i was there right on the fence watched houli carefully. Runs like he has concrete in his legs and backed out of a few contests. I don't care if champion data says he's on 80%, I see with my own eyes going to all games where the ball ends up. To much bombing to 50/50 contests for my liking and short is the same just bombs out of D50 without lowering the eyes and hitting up targets.

99% of houli kicks out of the backline are high floaters to a contest. Rarely see him pin point a player out and when he does try something he usually gets himself into pickle. I have zero confidence when he has the ball atm.

 

[Mr Magic]

Pickett's suspended right? not sure why hes in so many teams.

I'd like to see Edwards replace Ralphsmith in the backline because he was exceptional in this role in 2019. Baker to replace George as the high pressure forward. CCJ in as 2nd ruck/KPF. Houli stays in for some flexibility with Edwards.

BP: Grimes - Astbury - Balta
HB: Short - Vlas - Edwards
C: Caddy - Prestia - KMac
HF: Bolton - JR8 - Aarts
FF: Baker - Lynch - CCJ
FOL: Nank - Cotchin - Martin
INT: Graham - RCD - Houli - Broad - SUB: Ross/Mansell

I would keep Ralphsmith, the umires did not let him play on the weekend.

Give him another game against weaker opposition and he will be better for the run and so will we

 

[VB_longneck]

We’re appealing

whens the appeal?

 

[Tigerish09]

We’re appealing

No need to brag.

 

[Ashman OG]

hope pickett gets rubbed out so we lose our "second ruck" and kebab gate man gets a run

 

[Karp3_dm]

Imagine trying to teach someone who hasn’t watched footy before the current day rules

he’d watch soccer

 

[biaseddustyfan]

Imagine trying to teach someone who hasn’t watched footy before the current day rules

he’d watch soccer

less free milking in soccer than afl these days

 

[RobsJourney]

Honest question...

Do we think Caracella was mostly the one responsible for our shift in game plan after 2016?


Watched a little of Essendon yesterday and they alarmingly play a hell of a lot like we did 2017-2019. Won't lie that I'm pretty filthy that they poached both Rutten and Caracella from us, we barely had Caracella and then he was taken. If we had got more time with him and Rutten I wouldn't have minded as much, but it was a brief period of bliss and then stolen. RFC definitely wanted to keep him but I guess the Bombers' offer was too high.

But yes, it was only North Melbourne yesterday, but I've seen other parts of Essendon's games this year and felt similar. They (seemingly) don't have many real A-graders, they certainly don't have a Dustin Martin who could carry the team against top sides, they don't have an Alex Rance who could almost solo the backline, and despite Hooker playing well he is not quite the forward that Jack Riewoldt is or at least was.

So how are they doing it? The game plan appears to be how we used to (seemingly used to) play. Midfield speed and pressure, lots of numbers to the contest and then, just as they are forcing the turnover, they are already blitz-running forward and then move it with a chain of forward handballs. It is working for them, despite their lack of super players (though they do have a lot of pretty good players and quite a lot of speed).

Does/did the game plan make average players look better, ala Castagna, and that's why the Bombers now look pretty good? On current form I reckon we'd lose to them, despite our talented players, their style is currently our kryptonite - we suck at defending D50 transition at the moment and they are like no.1 at it.

I know we still won the flag last year without either of Caracella and Rutten, but I honestly didn't think we looked the same side as we did previously. We certainly didn't seem to pressure as hard, barely got to that 200+ on the gauge. We were a touch more beatable I felt. We were electric in 2017-19. Best I've seen the whole team play is the 2017 finals series and the 2019 grand final, and perhaps the second half of the 2019 prelim. Then again the win against the Dogs a few weeks back was pretty great...

I could be completely wrong, it could have still been all Dimma after 2016 and Rutten/Caracella have just poached what they got from being at Richmond and transferred it to Essendon, and can utilise it more now that Worsfold has relinquished the reins. Or it could have been a combination of all of them. I'm less inclined to think it was Rutten because we already had him before 2017, though Essendon does also seem to now defend how we do/used to, again despite the lack of real A-graders there (Ridley is good but he is no gorilla and certainly no Rance), peeling off their men to impact contests or run at the ball carrier before he gets near the 50 line, bumping the back of the shoulder to take a defensive mark, etc.

OR is it just that things have changed a lot for us? We had Rutten for defence and then got Leppitsch back after Rutten left, then got Kingsley from the Saints after Caracella left. Still have Kingsley but he has for some reason moved from midfield coach to defence coach. So yeah things have changed heaps, but then again you'd reckon Dimma and the senior players would still know the old ways from 2017 etc?

OR are we just currently out of form, ageing, too many injuries, hunger has dwindled etc?

I worry that we are returning to a more pre-2017 style, where we didn't really have an identity and tried to be too skilful like the then Hawks. I'd hate to think we've lost our identity and that the Bombers have stolen it, simply because they took Caracella, if indeed it was all his doing.


Whatever it is, we definitely seem to have changed our style and Essendon at least seem to have poached it from us. I'd love to see us get back to that style because we were amazing. First step, for mine, would be Dusty to the midfield more frequently, ala 2017. He can break games open anywhere and create play. He is wasted sitting forward.

Anyway, keen to hear what people think, cheers.

 

[tunksy]

Did Tex get off his sling tackle on Oliver I haven’t heard anything?

Naturally yes

 

[tunksy]

hope pickett gets rubbed out so we lose our "second ruck" and kebab gate man gets a run

Thats the only positive. Itll force us to change. Or we will be stubborn and put astbury in the ruck. Horror

 

[Lsta062]

Houli has to be under some pressure also. I know he’s a link man but every poss is a cheapy and when he is under pressure he goes to water.

With who though? Stack needs to build up his fitness base still IMO so I don’t think he’s ready yet. He’s approaching, but not there yet.

Without naming names, there are much bigger concerns in the side and those players have someone ready to take over their role from the VFL so I’d prioritise those changes before looking at Houli

 

[Cdog71]

In fact most of these keyboard warriors are always middle aged fat white men

I resemble that comment

 

[Tigerish09]

Imagine trying to teach someone who hasn’t watched footy before the current day rules

he’d watch soccer

Probably do alright as long as they’re not current day umpires.

 

[Lsta062]

Its time for Dimma to grow some balls and let the guys play for fun and enjoy it again. I know we are a system based side but there are plenty of guys horribly out of form like Rioli and George but with the way we play they don't really get many opportunties to get in form.

The new rules have changed the game style and approach.

I watched the Bomber yesterday and I know it was North but fu** me it was exciting to watch, they run carried went through the guts and hit up leading forwards, hardly bombed it on top of Hooker/Wright/Jones heads.

We need to tinker with the way we play the game especially the movement inside 50. Play CCJ for the 3rd tall, stretch teams defenses but create some bloody room for the guys to lead into , not bomb it on heads and try lock it in which mind you we are completely sh*t at the moment.

If we give Tom some space 1 on 1 he is almost unstoppable because of his reach.

It has been frustrating to watch our games this year , I know we are undermanned but the way in which we go forward is horrible.

Essendon is a good example. Although quite a few don’t like them on this board, I watched a lot of their games and they definitely look exciting. They play Phillips, Hooker, Harrison Jones, Wright and Nik Cox as their talls (5 talls!) forward of centre and have been applying more pressure and tackles than us this year. I also wouldn’t call them slow or unfit either. Because they have so many tall options in their forward line, it has freed up Hooker and they’re now the 2nd-highest scoring side. They obviously have their own issues in the midfield and defence, but that’s not the point here.

CCJ coming in for a small is NOT going to make us slow and unable to run out games. We don’t need a runner that has little impact on the actual game instead of CCJ. Melbourne, Western Bulldogs, Essendon, Port Adelaide, West Coast, Geelong, GWS and Brisbane all play with 4+ talls forward of centre as their preferred structure and there is a reason why they all have scored more than us this year. This might have been a novel tactic in 2017 but were in 2021 now. Our so-called pressure in the forward line in lieu of a 3rd tall is not resulting in higher scores so what’s the point of it? Don’t get me wrong, pressure is still a good tactic, but 4 talls forward of centre is important. So important that this even was our preferred structure until end of 2020 when Soldo got injured!

 

[sante]

Houli got a vote from the coaches. He isn’t getting dropped

 

[DickieKnee]

Essendon is a good example. Although quite a few don’t like them on this board, I watched a lot of their games and they definitely look exciting. They play Phillips, Hooker, Harrison Jones, Wright and Nik Cox as their talls (5 talls!) forward of centre and have been applying more pressure and tackles than us this year. I also wouldn’t call them slow or unfit either. Because they have so many tall options in their forward line, it has freed up Hooker and they’re now the 2nd-highest scoring side. They obviously have their own issues in the midfield and defence, but that’s not the point here.

CCJ coming in for a small is NOT going to make us slow and unable to run out games. We don’t need a runner that has little impact on the actual game instead of CCJ. Melbourne, Western Bulldogs, Essendon, Port Adelaide, West Coast, Geelong, GWS and Brisbane all play with 4+ talls forward of centre as their preferred structure and there is a reason why they all have scored more than us this year. This might have been a novel tactic in 2017 but were in 2021 now. Our so-called pressure in the forward line in lieu of a 3rd tall is not resulting in higher scores so what’s the point of it? Don’t get me wrong, pressure is still a good tactic, but 4 talls forward of centre is important. So important that this even was our preferred structure until end of 2020 when Soldo got injured!

I hate to say it but the Bombers have some decent young players. With a couple of years experience they will be thereabouts.

 

[Sol23]

With who though? Stack needs to build up his fitness base still IMO so I don’t think he’s ready yet. He’s approaching, but not there yet.

Without naming names, there are much bigger concerns in the side and those players have someone ready to take over their role from the VFL so I’d prioritise those changes before looking at Houli

Yeah fair points. Although I’d say half back runner who can kick the ball is one of the most important areas, they provide a heap of drive for any team. Houli might not priority one but he needs to be replaced sooner rather than later.

 

[Lsta062]

Yeah fair points. Although I’d say half back runner who can kick the ball is one of the most important areas, they provide a heap of drive for any team. Houli might not priority one but he needs to be replaced sooner rather than later.

I think he’ll retire soon anyway with his injury run not being too dissimilar to Brett Deledio so I’m not sure if we’ll see him all that much at AFL level moving forward. Loved what he brought for us though even if that will end up the case. Was an astute pick-up by us from Essendon all those years ago!

 

[Infamy]

I hate to say it but the Bombers have some decent young players. With a couple of years experience they will be thereabouts.

Still think they need another couple of years hitting the draft hard. By the time these new kids are ready to hit their prime they'll have lost a bunch of their current senior list. Could be a repeat of Carlton.

 

[tunksy]

Still think they need another couple of years hitting the draft hard. By the time these new kids are ready to hit their prime they'll have lost a bunch of their current senior list. Could be a repeat of Carlton.

They should be in a solid place to hit fa hard again once these older guys like hooker and hurly retire