Autopsy Roast & Toast vs Melbourne & Changes for Carlton

[Mr Magic]

The worry is he gets absolutely slaughtered in the ruck. And he's not impacting the game much are the moment.

I could be wrong, but I think it will be Soldo/Nank.

The trouble I have with Soldo and Nank is they are too similar in the sense they do not really complement each other in the sense they largely do a similar role and each playing half a game is a bit limiting.

I think Chol can be more effective in the short term if directed in the right way. He should have a voice, I am sure he can shout if the s**t hits the fan and is motivated, he has hands to wave about, the players want the team to be as imposing as possible including JR and Lynch in terms of effectiveness and the mids should be open to targeting Chol at times even as a point of difference to improve forward transition and goal scoring making the team better as a unit to have a greater chance to win a premiership. So the incentive should be there if the belief is!! JR and others should be able to help him with second leads etc.. even if up the ground to present even if it becomes a decoy. The amount of congestion in footy these days commands multiple options of penetration to increase scoring and be more competitive!!

I do not think the taps have been too bad and mids rove to opposition rucks anyway.

We won a premiership supposedly in 2017 when we decided to go ultra defensively. Therefore it becomes critical if we can beat the opposition defense trying to do that to us!!

 

[JAKLAUGHING]

The trouble I have with Soldo and Nank is they are too similar in the sense they do not really complement each other in the sense they largely do a similar role and each playing half a game is a bit limiting.

I think Chol can be more effective in the short term if directed in the right way. He should have a voice, I am sure he can shout if the s**t hits the fan and is motivated, he has hands to wave about, the players want the team to be as imposing as possible including JR and Lynch in terms of effectiveness and the mids should be open to targeting Chol at times even as a point of difference to improve forward transition and goal scoring making the team better as a unit to have a greater chance to win a premiership. So the incentive should be there if the belief is!! JR and others should be able to help him with second leads etc.. even if up the ground to present even if it becomes a decoy. The amount of congestion in footy these days commands multiple options of penetration to increase scoring and be more competitive!!

I do not think the taps have been too bad and mids rove to opposition rucks anyway.

We won a premiership supposedly in 2017 when we decided to go ultra defensively. Therefore it becomes critical if we can beat the opposition defense trying to do that to us!!

Don't want to take such a trainee into a Finals campaign who needs to be molly coddled on field by other players in the team!
In the heat of a finals campaign that is a distraction to other team player's effectiveness...couple of stuff ups and that is a possible 3 goal deficit!
Too risky in my book...Towna was a calculated risk with runs on the board! Cholly more a speculated risk...

 

[Mr Magic]

Don't want to take such a trainee into a Finals campaign who needs to be molly coddled on field by other players in the team!
In the heat of a finals campaign that is a distraction to other team player's effectiveness...couple of stuff ups and that is a possible 3 goal deficit!
Too risky in my book...Towna was a calculated risk with runs on the board! Cholly more a speculated risk...

If he had to be molly coddled he should not be playing now.

The worst thing that can happen is players do not use him as an option like last weekend. Either way he can still yell for the ball, way his hands and present at least as a decoy to improve the team.

The fear I have is Soldo and Nank as a combo simply is not formidable enough especially as a cohesive unit with JR and Lynch in terms of overall mobility, run and marking power.

Playing Grigg in the ruck would be risky than Chol as an option and are you saying our smalls cannot crumb to Chol??

Remember if it did not rain, Melbourne may have beat us based on the first half if the status quo continued!!

The american beat us last year in the final and what is there to train??? Are you saying our players cannot direct Chol where to go with their kicking or do not have the vision even though Dusty spotted up Rioli laterally and kicked to Chol on a straight lead??

Townsend was not a calculated risk, he was proven and still is!!

 

[JAKLAUGHING]

If he had to be molly coddled he should not be playing now.

The worst thing that can happen is players do not use him as an option like last weekend. Either way he can still yell for the ball, way his hands and present at least as a decoy to improve the team.

The fear I have is Soldo and Nank as a combo simply is not formidable enough especially as a cohesive unit with JR and Lynch in terms of overall mobility, run and marking power

I agree...next year please!

 

[Mr Magic]

I agree...next year please!

Thats my attitude towards Soldo, next year please, apart from backup to Nank atm. We need more arsenal in the firepower!!

Beating a bunch of easy beats proves nothing until you get to finals were gears have to be shifted like in 2018!!

 

[JAKLAUGHING]

Thats my attitude towards Soldo, next year please, apart from backup to Nank atm. We need more arsenal in the firepower!!

Beating a bunch of easy beats proves nothing until you get to finals were gears have to be shifted like in 2018!!

Which Cholly managed to do! Finals is a different matter! Next year please!

 

[peternorth]

Dont care who comes in, so long as butler goes out.

And we win.

 

[Mr Magic]

Which Cholly managed to do! Finals is a different matter! Next year please!

Who have we beaten with Nank and Soldo in the same lineup??

 

[JAKLAUGHING]

Who have we beaten with Nank and Soldo in the same lineup??

Gee that's a tough question! Maybe we will not need them playing together, who knows?!?

 

[Mr Magic]

Dont care who comes in, so long as butler goes out.

And we win.

I am not close to the action but I would prefer a few out including Butler and I am not even talking about Soldo.

With respect to Brisbane and injuries to a lot of teams, I think its fairly even apart from a few teams.

I think we, like Port Adelaide in 2007, can go well but be not near it compared to the best team. Thats not to say we can't be but we have no reason to have a false sense of security now, if we did so or not last year.

Not sure if Geelong is the precipice but I think West Coast and a few others maybe are a level above and what we have done versus other teams this year is academic compared to greater tests ahead. All we can say is we made it to finals and we need to give ourselves every chance because these opportunities are not easy and anything can happen so we have to give ourselves every chance in my book leaving no stone unturned!!

You only have to look at the ladder to see injuries play a part and, ignoring the ladder fluctations with fixtures and anomalies, some teams have more firepower that will present when finals arrive when the business end comes around

For example will Pickett's inclusion make a difference if it happens shortly?? Not sure, I am not close to it, but I know from afar, Sydney Stack inclusion this year has improved us for sure and certain and made us a far more imposing formidable team as an example!!

 

[Hank Heavenly]

The ruck decision won't come down to what happens with the #1 ruck spot, Clearly Nank can do that, and Soldo has proven through form he can carry the workload.

It will come down to what the #2 ruck/fwd looks like, and what we want it to look like against Geelong/WCE/Bris not what it looks like against Carlton.

If WCE are the perceived mark we need to beat to win the flag, what does it look like against them?
Do we believe that Nank/Soldo when playing forward can keep one of McGovern, Barass, McKenzie busy so that they can't use their 3rd man up to disrupt Lynch/JR

So the question will be one of the following depending on starting ruck:

Nank Starting - Can Soldo offer the mobility, engagement and potential scoreboard pressure that Chol offers?
Soldo Starting - Can Nank offer the mobility, engagement and potential scoreboard pressure that Chol offers?

Keeping in mind, The second ruck for two teams are very weak, Allen from WC, Geelong can't even settle on a number one ruckman. Brisban pose the biggest challenge with Martin and the Big O

 

[peternorth]

The ruck decision won't come down to what happens with the #1 ruck spot, Clearly Nank can do that, and Soldo has proven through form he can carry the workload.

It will come down to what the #2 ruck/fwd looks like, and what we want it to look like against Geelong/WCE/Bris not what it looks like against Carlton.

If WCE are the perceived mark we need to beat to win the flag, what does it look like against them?
Do we believe that Nank/Soldo when playing forward can keep one of McGovern, Barass, McKenzie busy so that they can't use their 3rd man up to disrupt Lynch/JR

So the question will be one of the following depending on starting ruck:

Nank Starting - Can Soldo offer the mobility, engagement and potential scoreboard pressure that Chol offers?
Soldo Starting - Can Nank offer the mobility, engagement and potential scoreboard pressure that Chol offers?

Keeping in mind, The second ruck for two teams are very weak, Allen from WC, Geelong can't even settle on a number one ruckman. Brisban pose the biggest challenge with Martin and the Big O

Great post. so many questions. Its a great problem to have!

your avatar intrigues me

 

[Grechy]

Butler has to go out. Literally provides nothing. 1 year wonder.

 

[Stigmata]

Agree Marcov up forward is better than Butler


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[Michaels]

I am not close to the action but I would prefer a few out including Butler and I am not even talking about Soldo.

With respect to Brisbane and injuries to a lot of teams, I think its fairly even apart from a few teams.

I think we, like Port Adelaide in 2007, can go well but be not near it compared to the best team. Thats not to say we can't be but we have no reason to have a false sense of security now, if we did so or not last year.

Not sure if Geelong is the precipice but I think West Coast and a few others maybe are a level above and what we have done versus other teams this year is academic compared to greater tests ahead. All we can say is we made it to finals and we need to give ourselves every chance because these opportunities are not easy and anything can happen so we have to give ourselves every chance in my book leaving no stone unturned!!

You only have to look at the ladder to see injuries play a part and, ignoring the ladder fluctations with fixtures and anomalies, some teams have more firepower that will present when finals arrive when the business end comes around

For example will Pickett's inclusion make a difference if it happens shortly?? Not sure, I am not close to it, but I know from afar, Sydney Stack inclusion this year has improved us for sure and certain and made us a far more imposing formidable team as an example!!

I find the bolded comments really odd.

We are 1 game and some % off top spot on the ladder despite having 3/4 of our team out for a large chunk of the year and only having 2 players play every game so far.

If that isn't a sign that we are still a genuine contender I don't know what is.

Don't worry about the margins other teams have been winning by, a lot of them have had a settled line up for a lot of the year. we are just coming into that phase now but yet have still won enough games to be sitting 4th.

 

[Mr Magic]

I find the bolded comments really odd.

We are 1 game and some % off top spot on the ladder despite having 3/4 of our team out for a large chunk of the year and only having 2 players play every game so far.

If that isn't a sign that we are still a genuine contender I don't know what is.

Don't worry about the margins other teams have been winning by, a lot of them have had a settled line up for a lot of the year. we are just coming into that phase now but yet have still won enough games to be sitting 4th.

Yes but for example West Coast could be a sixty point better team than the rest of the competition like Geelong in 2007.

I am not saying we are necessarily can't beat West Coast or other top contenders I am saying that us making the top 8 or top 4 might not mean much in terms of contention if its a transitional year with a lot of middle range teams.

Another way to look at it is for us, giving our injuries, making the top 4 or even top 2 might be an indication of a weak year. That does not mean we have not earned our finals position. It just means beating a lot of other teams might not be too relevant until we run up against top opposition such as for example West Coast potentially who have also had injuries like Collingwood etc..


What I am saying is potentially, a year like this could mean we are close, but when we run into Geelong or West Coast at full strength and firing we get our pants pulled down because we where complacent about the task at hand potentially.

I am just saying its a potentially flaky year with teams up and down so a teams victories before the pointy end maybe should be taken with a grain of salt. Its hard to get a true barometer of were teams are at so one cannot read too much into individual home and away results. One only has to see Port go up and down throughout most of the season!! For example if West Coast are so good should we place a lot of credence in them getting belted by the Lions in round one up in Brisbane??? Or was that an example of the Swans always being poor early in seasons before their finals runs??

And so are some of the AFL teams efforts throughout the home and away, including ours, distorted this year due to anomalies?? The point being, unless we give maximum effort and every chance on offer, we might be a finalist, but are we a real contender???

All I am saying is we might do well beating a few teams during the home and away, but in reality, that might give us a false impression of our true prospects against the real contenders and so in our premiership tilt we should show no cause to leave any stone unturned to achieve the ultimate success!!

 

[HTT]

Nah stack and pickett

Stickett

That’ll stickett right up em

Sorry

 

[Hoos]

Yes but for example West Coast could be a sixty point better team than the rest of the competition like Geelong in 2007.

They're not. West Coast may be the best, or they may be the second or third best, but there's nothing clear cut about it. Geelong in 2007 were clearly the best way before the finals started.

 

[Mr Magic]

They're not. West Coast may be the best, or they may be the second or third best, but there's nothing clear cut about it. Geelong in 2007 were clearly the best way before the finals started.

No one knows that until they play them in a final and they put in maximum effort from which to benchmark

Remember they are the reigning premiers and many think they are an improved team in terms of the cattle!!

The only thing that is certain is many teams in the finals are really not sure for certain where they are at especially giving they have not played each other on similar terms for a while!!

 

[Sgt Bargearse]

That's just it though. Your argument doesn't stand because you don't see what he does when he's off the ball. If you did then you would realise that he does and absolute monster load of running and pressuring that contributes greatly to the teams defence.

Stack wouldn't be able to do the running that Rioli does hence why they play different roles. Rioli has built into his role beautifully. Anyone who's going to the games and watching closely can see this and fortunately most on this board are seeing it. It's a pity that you don't but perhaps you could get along to a game one of these days and you might see it for yourself. it's quite exhilarating actually

I love your quote ; TV gives such a lousy view of the footy and they show 0.5% of the defensive running off the ball. Ball watching misses so much of the game. Rioli's defensive efforts and sprints are what he brings to the team, goals and assists are gravy.

 

[Bazzar]

Who have we beaten with Nank and Soldo in the same lineup??

Nank and Soldo have rucked 5 times together and that was in 2017, 1 loss to the giants (r9) then 4 wins in a row 17-20 against Lions, Giants, Suns and Hawks.
Chol has never played with or against Nank.

 

[David C]

Nank averages 14 possessions and half a goal.
Soldo got 13 possessions (8 contested) and a goal against the leagues best ruck.

He's doing enough around the ground. Chol will make way for Nank

Hardwick touched on the rucks after the last game. He hinted they might go on a horses for courses ruck choice. It certainly seemed to be Nank or Soldo, not both. Chol appears safe for now.

 

[Cotcho]

Hardwick touched on the rucks after the last game. He hinted they might go on a horses for courses ruck choice. It certainly seemed to be Nank or Soldo, not both. Chol appears safe for now.

Yeah I heard that and took the same opinion.

We will see how selection goes but i guess i see it differently to everyone else. People are forgetting that what Chol offers around the ground is what every single other player under 7 foot offers. Pace, agility, good skills. We've already got heaps of players like that. We need ruckman that can impact stoppages whether that's in the middle or boundary throw ins.

 

[tiger_tough]

The trouble I have with Soldo and Nank is they are too similar in the sense they do not really complement each other in the sense they largely do a similar role and each playing half a game is a bit limiting.

Disagree. I think they compliment each other perfectly. Nank although not explosive is mobile, gets plenty of the ball, is generally a good user and can take big marks. Soldo can compete at stoppages better, is a good tap ruckman and has proven capable of nullifying the 2 best rucks in the league in the last 2 weeks.

I have no doubt Nank can do what Chol has done the last 2 months, but better. That is, compete at stoppages, provide a tall option around the ground and get forward to create a target.

I'll be disappointed if Nank and Soldo aren't given the chance to gel together ans Chol and Soldo have.

 

[Cotcho]

Disagree. I think they compliment each other perfectly. Nank although not explosive is mobile, gets plenty of the ball, is generally a good user and can take big marks. Soldo can compete at stoppages better, is a good tap ruckman and has proven capable of nullifying the 2 best rucks in the league in the last 2 weeks.

I have no doubt Nank can do what Chol has done the last 2 months, but better. That is, compete at stoppages, provide a tall option around the ground and get forward to create a target.

I'll be disappointed if Nank and Soldo aren't given the chance to gel together ans Chol and Soldo have.

This