Autopsy Roast & Toast vs Port Adelaide, Rd 4 2019, & changes for Sydney

[THE_GUN]

Cause his not Higgins anymore. Where did all that enthusiasm go? Haven't seen him get excited at any stage this year like previous. He is playing ok and doing his job though seems to have matured quickly, I hear he has a girlfriend now maybe she told him to grow up hehe.

Stephanie is extremely mature for a 15 year old and has been a good influence on Higgins

Who plays HBF with Menadue OUT? Ellis? I don't think we want to see Ellis in that half of the ground. He was better mid >fwd last week. All small fwds were good too. For me it would be Graham OUT

Shane Edwards & Sydney Stack

Graham led stoppage clearances, no way known is omitted.
KMc fined $1000 by MRP.

That would absolutely destroy K-Mac , He travelled 40 klms to pickup a toilet as it was $26 cheaper than the shop 15klms away

 

[Marcel Proust]

That would absolutely destroy K-Mac , He travelled 40 klms to pickup a toilet as it was $26 cheaper than the shop 15klms away

start a gofundme

#stand by KMac

 

[joelsyt]

Ok so seems like Graham is the new whipping boy.

Poor kid.

 

[DontArgue4]

Stephanie is extremely mature for a 15 year old and has been a good influence on Higgins

Que?

 

[Sol23]

I’d drop George and graham for dusty and houli. Everyone else really deserves to keep there spot

 

[Waca Jr]

I would take Dea back with Deledio gone and Houli getting older.

He is pretty s**t at footy but hard as nails

Turned to s**t when he changed to a lower number.

 

[Mr Magic]

You suggest that Cotchin and Martin come out of the middle for Graham. Martin was the leagues best centre clearance player last year, and well Cotchin is 10 time the player that Graham is. Also Martin is no half forward, is only good resting at FF where Lynch now sits. Of course Graham can rotate through there and he goes okay, but when he is rotating out of the centre he plays wing or half forward, where he isn't much chop. In a full squad he will struggle.
And he has not had a game remotely close to his great grand final game.

Lol how do you figure Martin was the best clearance player last year??? Actually when push comes to shove I think Fyfe is probably the best clearance player because of his reach

I would have thought Martin won the Brownlow as a rotating player and general mid as well as his proficiency winning contests as a forward and not purely a clearance player.

I would have thought Cotch is a better clearance player than Martin for one.

Martin is a better forward and kick than an extractor IMO at the coal face. If Martin was such a great extractor last year how did Tom Mitchell win the brownlow?

I actually think Martin is better in space than inside where his has room to hit his targets and use the don't argue and so he can utilise his strength and power along with his speed. Its hard to don't argue when you have four around you on all sides in a confined space!

Do you think JR, Lynch and Caddy would rather be on the end of a hack kick from the middle from Martin or a 55 metre piercing bullet from his boot? If Martin is in space at the 50 metre why deny Martin the opportunity to kick a goal with his long penetrating disposal? Certainly gives more space for the forwards in Lynch, JR and Caddy if opposition defenses have to worry about Martin kicking goals from the 50 metre line and beyond!!

Martin is a dud half forward?? I think I have heard it all!! May as well hang up his boots!!

Not sure why your limiting Graham to half forward and the wing beyond the guts either!!

Put it this way, would you prefer Martin doing a hack kick forward into the forward line or be on the end of a Ross or Graham extractor handball where Martin has room to burst away and smash JR or Lynch on the chest running forward as they lead out??

 

[Sir_Loin]

Ok so seems like Graham is the new whipping boy.

Poor kid.

Don’t get it. We won on the weekend without Cotch and Dusty and this kid harassed and hassled the oppo all day. I felt he played his role.

 

[Tforce]

Don’t get it. We won on the weekend without Cotch and Dusty and this kid harassed and hassled the oppo all day. I felt he played his role.

Exactly, I'm glad they don't have a say in MC. Graham stays, especially against the swans.

 

[joelsyt]

Don’t get it. We won on the weekend without Cotch and Dusty and this kid harassed and hassled the oppo all day. I felt he played his role.

Definitely played his role.

He may not get lots of the ball but he more than makes up for it with his tackling and defensive pressure.

 

[Grrr]

Lol how do you figure Martin was the best clearance player last year??? Actually when push comes to shove I think Fyfe is probably the best clearance player because of his reach

I would have thought Martin won the Brownlow as a rotating player and general mid as well as his proficiency winning contests as a forward and not purely a clearance player.

I would have thought Cotch is a better clearance player than Martin for one.

Martin is a better forward and kick than an extractor IMO at the coal face. If Martin was such a great extractor last year how did Tom Mitchell win the brownlow?

I actually think Martin is better in space than inside where his has room to hit his targets and use the don't argue and so he can utilise his strength and power along with his speed. Its hard to don't argue when you have four around you on all sides in a confined space!

Do you think JR, Lynch and Caddy would rather be on the end of a hack kick from the middle from Martin or a 55 metre piercing bullet from his boot? If Martin is in space at the 50 metre why deny Martin the opportunity to kick a goal with his long penetrating disposal? Certainly gives more space for the forwards in Lynch, JR and Caddy if opposition defenses have to worry about Martin kicking goals from the 50 metre line and beyond!!

Martin is a dud half forward?? I think I have heard it all!! May as well hang up his boots!!

Not sure why your limiting Graham to half forward and the wing beyond the guts either!!

Put it this way, would you prefer Martin doing a hack kick forward into the forward line or be on the end of a Ross or Graham extractor handball where Martin has room to burst away and smash JR or Lynch on the chest running forward as they lead out??

From the AFL website:
Since the start of last season Martin has led the AFL in several areas. He ranks No.1 for average inside-50s (5.9), score assists (1.9) and centre bounce clearances (3.4) No I didn't make it up, but I should have said centre clearance.

You like to exaggerate. Where did I say Martin was a dud at anything. I said he is no half forward because half forwards have to chase half backs like Laird and Houli up the ground all game, like Rioli and Butler do. Martin does not do that very well, and his best work is obviously when he is one one one, usually closeish to goal. Of course he moves up to 50m he isn't Tony Lockett.

How am I limiting Graham to half forward and wing. Have you watched him this year. He is playing a lot of his football at half forward and wing because after rotating that is where he goes, like the other half of our midfield. It is not me putting him there.

 

[Wooden Robot]

While all and sundry are toasting the emergence of promising youngster Ross, Balta, Stack and to a lesser extent Garthwaite, I'll propose a toast to ol' mate mopsy who gallantly fought against the tide in pre-season when spruiking for the inclusion of those aforementioned players and the need to give them game time and naming some of them in his Best 22. Was roundly castigated, including by some senior members of this board, while others refused to move on from 2017 and were reinventing ways to get the premiership 22 back on the park. mopsy and others eloquently saw the need for regeneration, as do all teams hoping to build on a premiership and haver been vindicated by Saturday's win and bright performances.

 

[Sir_Loin]

While all and sundry are toasting the emergence of promising youngster Ross, Balta, Stack and to a lesser extent Garthwaite, I'll propose a toast to ol' mate mopsy who gallantly fought against the tide in pre-season when spruiking for the inclusion of those aforementioned players and the need to give them game time and naming some of them in his Best 22. Was roundly castigated, including by some senior members of this board, while others refused to move on from 2017 and were reinventing ways to get the premiership 22 back on the park. mopsy and others eloquently saw the need for regeneration, as do all teams hoping to build on a premiership and haver been vindicated by Saturday's win and bright performances.

Not sure we needed to regenerate but with the outs we had we were kind of forced into those changes. If the coach had the option, the big 4 (hate that term its actually 7-8 of our best 22) would have played.

What’s been pleasing is that the recruiters have absolutely picked the eyes out of the last couple drafts. Ross, Stack, Higgins and Baker absolute steals. Balta looks likely. And the VFL side looks like its stacked with some up and comers. To be finishing top 4 and snagging these players is phenomenal.

 

[Mr Magic]

From the AFL website:
Since the start of last season Martin has led the AFL in several areas. He ranks No.1 for average inside-50s (5.9), score assists (1.9) and centre bounce clearances (3.4) No I didn't make it up, but I should have said centre clearance.

You like to exaggerate. Where did I say Martin was a dud at anything. I said he is no half forward because half forwards have to chase half backs like Laird and Houli up the ground all game, like Rioli and Butler do. Martin does not do that very well, and his best work is obviously when he is one one one, usually closeish to goal. Of course he moves up to 50m he isn't Tony Lockett.

How am I limiting Graham to half forward and wing. Have you watched him this year. He is playing a lot of his football at half forward and wing because after rotating that is where he goes, like the other half of our midfield. It is not me putting him there.

I am not exaggerating . Your words"Also Martin is no half forward" so you are saying Martin is limited in what he can do!!!

Half forwards do not have to chase half backs if there are other defensive mechanisms. There are different ways to skin a cat and nothing is black and white!!! If we are kicking more goals less need to defend points that do not occur from better accuracy. Dusty might play a higher half forward anyway and we might be stronger in the defensive set-up through the midfield. Rioli and others like Castagna can still do their thing with Dusty loitering outside the forward 50 metre being a offensive and contested threat!! If Gary Ablett senior is kicking 14 goals from the wing/half forward I am inclined to think your less worried about the defensive mechanism!! Now Dusty is not as good as Gary Ablett senior was but the point is you do not waste Gary Ablett senior in the guts!!!

Now lets look at your stats. Correlation does not mean causation and are you comparing apples to oranges??


Ranking number 1 for inside 50 metres has little to do with clearances. Sure there is some but a lot of that would be to do with ground positioning and his heat map would suggest he is in the forward half a lot which is fine but not necessarily to do with inside clearances!!

score assists ranking no.1. So what??? Again in fact probably even less to do with clearances. See last paragraph. However, just if Martin is on a wing or half forward that does not mean he cannot participate in a clearance in the forward 50 metre or a wing unlike a animal that is corralled!! In fact like a rotating ruck surely it would make sense for Dusty to take the clearance in the forward half in certain situations and save the legs of a Ross and/or Graham up the ground so our team has more energy to do more across the ground in terms of our offensive and defensive mechanisms!

Now your last stat. centre bounce clearances 3.4. This stat is a lot more relevant except for few limiters. This stat is a quantity stat that is no measure on the quality of the clearance and the opportunity cost of Martin having an even better effect elsewhere. Can you break it down???? What where the centre bounce clearances, handballs, hack kicks and how many resulted in acute strategic advantage for our team?? How many of those stats could have reasonably been achieved by an effective substitute like Ross and/or Graham in the same set of circumstances?? How was the stat measured??? Do they include handball receives from Prestia, etc...???

These stats, of themselves, does not mean Dusty is the leagues best centre clearance player!! IMO they are more likely to place credence to Dusty being effective in the forward half!

 

[tropicaltiger]

Exactly, I'm glad they don't have a say in MC. Graham stays, especially against the swans.

i'm the opposite, we dont need to stop slow coach sydney, play a quick side and we can flog em so that means menadu, kosta, baker, shai and ellis stay. jackG can come back v demons if any of those on the fringe dont perform and/or if prestia, vloss types are a bit sore and get managed. if cotchin plays, jackG....Riewoldt wont play.

 

[Bazzar]

While all and sundry are toasting the emergence of promising youngster Ross, Balta, Stack and to a lesser extent Garthwaite, I'll propose a toast to ol' mate mopsy who gallantly fought against the tide in pre-season when spruiking for the inclusion of those aforementioned players and the need to give them game time and naming some of them in his Best 22. Was roundly castigated, including by some senior members of this board, while others refused to move on from 2017 and were reinventing ways to get the premiership 22 back on the park. mopsy and others eloquently saw the need for regeneration, as do all teams hoping to build on a premiership and haver been vindicated by Saturday's win and bright performances.

Would those "aforementioned" players be playing if Rance, Dusty, Cotch, Jack, Houli, Caddy first 3 weeks, and Short, were playing? No. So its a bit rich pumping up Mopsy and yourself as some great visionarys. Fact is , they were always going to be first picked depth players.

And out of curiosity, did either of you pick the emergence of Stack so early?

 

[Tenacious T]

Minimal changes.
Out: Menadue, Baker(unlucky)
In: Martin, Houli

 

[parmy2balmey]

First time poster, long time lurker here.

As tough as the previous couple of weeks have been, it was all worth it for what we all saw on Saturday.

It's so reassuring to know that, despite being in the contender talk, we still have a number of talented kids pushing up from below. The recruiting in recent history has been fantastic.

I'll admit at the beginning of the year I was a little worried at the fact we lost so much depth, and while they might not have been best 22/25 players, I thought they'd turn into pretty vital losses if we were to all of a sudden cop a string of injuries.

But to see the likes of Stack, Ross, Balta, Bolton all playing a decent role in Saturday's win was so heartwarming to see, and has completely eradicated my previous thoughts of needing that more mature depth to fall back on should injuries hit.

Overall, just a big pat on the back to our recruiters.

 

[clark1980]

I agree minimal changes for Saturday, maybe only Martin in. then make the changes for Wednesday, in houli and jack who would have a week + to get ready for their next match.

 

[Nobby]

Exactly, I'm glad they don't have a say in MC. Graham stays, especially against the swans.

Definitely played his role.

He may not get lots of the ball but he more than makes up for it with his tackling and defensive pressure.

Don’t get it. We won on the weekend without Cotch and Dusty and this kid harassed and hassled the oppo all day. I felt he played his role.

Remember when he was dropped last year against Port?

Dimma said he messed up and acknowldged he shouldn't have and won't make the same mistake

 

[guruisatiger]

Unfortunately for George/Baker it’ll probably be one of them that comes out for Dusty.

The old George baker selection,,, little green bag

 

[RFCGloryJC]

I would omit Menadue for Dusty.
One change.
Houli to play the Dees at the G.
To me, Baker and Higgins are vying for a position, which is good.
No need to fret about it.
Competition is good.
In the same way, people bagged Ellis but he rose to the occasion.
Who will stand up when the heat is on?

 

[joelsyt]

The old George baker selection,,, little green bag

Maybe we can all agree that none of us actually have any clue about who will come out for Dusty, only that Dusty will definitely play?

 

[THE_GUN]

View attachment 656041

Another 12 months into these boys and the X factor in this picture is ridiculous

 

[Stylo]

higgins, bolton, rioli, edwards, balta, stack, baker, dusty, caddy, jack, lynch...

remember when we had no x factor?