Opinion Rob Chapman

[RePete]

http://www.fiveaa.com.au/audio_crow...back-at-afl-boss-andrew-demetriou_107368?s=22

Listen to it. Starts off ok but ends disgustingly. Demetrio has Chapman wrapped around his fingers. "Oh yeah nah we had a good laugh and then I lubed myself up for Vlads pleasure." Mate if you are gonna pretend to be tough and call Andrew up you might as well give across the message the fans that make up this club want you to.

 

[Elder van Berlo]

It's on the consent forms and players testimony. Read the 34 pages of charges against essendon. Sections at the back are clearly lists of names and substances redacted.

Consent forms prove nothing. Demonstrates an intent to use whatever it was they signed up for, but falls well short of evidence of use or attempted use.

If the players admitted it, that's another thing. It would still be hard to prove actual use "you don't really know what was in the syringe, did you Mr Watson?" but it would be hard to get around attempted use.

As to the "charge sheet", I've read it, but I have also been around the traps enough to know that sometimes, the complaints will be false (I think there's been a rape up there!!). While I doubt the AFL would have simply made stuff up to put in that document, I wouldn't be surprised if they took the absolute high watermark of the evidence and released it publicly to put pressure on Essendon to come to the party. I'd be almost certain that there's another side to the story.

 

[Jack is Back]

Rob Chapman's response tonight is perfectly consistent with his previous actions.

The AFC has fought very hard to minimise the punishment to Trigg and the stain on his character and the reputation of the Board. This and the financial penalty were a much higher priority than the loss of draft picks. Either the Board were truly deluded and thought we had one of the best lists in the AFL or their priorities were very different to most AFC members and supporters.

Our list IMHO was about 6-8th in the AFL at the start of this year (i.e. post $kirt with no compensation) and unless we are very, very lucky we will continue to slip lower over the next 3 years. We can use all the spin in the world after the draft to say our 3rd to 6th round draft picks were all really first rounders (Atkins and Siggins have been a bit disappointing for pseudo first rounders but have performed exactly as you would expect as 3rd and 4th round draft picks).

The Board and Trigg seem to place "a solid profit" higher than winning the next AFC flag.

 

[cmndstab]

Was pleased to hear he run Demetriou up, but a bit disappointed that a simple laugh and "don't do it next time" was all we ended up doing.

At a bare minimum, we should have demanded a public apology. Absolute bottom level of meaningful response in this situation.

 

[Sanders]

This is one of the things that cannot be proven.

There is circumstantial evidence only that they took thymosin beta 4. But again, the club can't prove that the players didn't.

This is why they got a good deal. There was a lot of smoke, not much fire, and the Bombers probably did some dodgy stuff. Proving it conclusively in a court would take a lot and without positive tests there would always be doubt.

That's why the Bombers were in a position of strength, relative to us. We had a piece of paper labelled "Cheating" set out on AFC letterhead and signed by a club official, Board minutes of the illegal clause being spoken about and Fabulous Phil's email trail spilling every bean.

The entire Balco brigade were convicted on circumstantial evidence, same with Biogenesis

The biggest scalps in the world of ped have often been convicted without a smoking gun

 

[Mike Smyth]

Time to move forward not look back

You can only move forward when you correct the mistakes of the past. Our mistakes (Trigg, Chapman, AFC Board) and still staring us in the face.

 

[Mike Smyth]

It was weak as piss.

He rang up to refute it - **** that, should've rang up and stated we would be challenging our sanctions as we disagree that we were uncooperative, and if our penalties were based on that, then they needed to be reviewed.

It's just irrelevant posturing from Chapman. Christ, Rowey even said, "When you rang him, did you ask why our draft sanctions were almost double the severity of Essendon's, when their crime is infinitely worse?"

"No, that's not the issue, the issue is about us being cooperative, so I didn't bring it up."

If I was cynical, like BACCS, I'd almost think it was staged.



And Trigg wasn't sacked.

By an absolute mile, this is the most incompetent, weak, self-serving administration and board we have had in our history. Sad time to be an AFC supporter.

 

[Mike Smyth]

Is anyone else just sick of going around and around whingeing about the same things with the AFC admin and board. Can we actually start doing something rather than all this meaningless talk. Any suggestions apart from not attending games/buying merchandise??

 

[amer]

Lets just remind you of some facts:

1. Essendon ordered performance enhancing drugs through a convincted drug trafficker
2. Essendon paid for the performance enhancing drugs on an invoice.
3. Essendon got the players to sign a form which included performance enhancing drugs.
4. The drugs no longer exist & records have mysteriously disappeared.

Add to this that the players took drugs which have not been past fit as being for human consumptions.


Yet AFC are penalised more draft picks.

What Essendon has done is far, far, far worse that AFC. The penalties should not have even been close!

You're taking a lot of liberties here. Which makes these not facts.

 

[noddy]

Time to move forward not look back

Would love to but every time i see or hear Trigg i cringe.

 

[ftmch]

Is anyone else just sick of going around and around whingeing about the same things with the AFC admin and board. Can we actually start doing something rather than all this meaningless talk. Any suggestions apart from not attending games/buying merchandise??

You could, you know, not whinge and stuff..

 

[jenny61_99]

Is anyone else just sick of going around and around whingeing about the same things with the AFC admin and board. Can we actually start doing something rather than all this meaningless talk. Any suggestions apart from not attending games/buying merchandise??

Stop whinging? Reckon that might do it.

 

[Crowbots are dead]

Read the words. He thanked us for our cooperation after the investigation commenced. We didn't put ourselves in - far from it. We tried to get the trade done on the last day in the hope the whole thing would disappear with him.

We were caught.

Unfortunately I think you are right. I beleive that Chapman fully disclosed when he found out but the problem is his rouge CEO Trigg was trying to make it go away and only filled Chapman in when it was out of hand. 'Fully disclosing' when you are about to be arrested is not fully disclosing. Having said that i see no evidence that Essendon were any more forth coming. They were being investigated not through the club disclosing.

 

[Cap]

I think we need to look at these things as process of improvement, when was the last time an Adelaide Official called anything from the afl 'absolute crap' and on radio.

Chapman is also right in terms of the follow up, if this was in Melbourne, the radio hosts would have rang and got Andy D back on to clarify his statements - this is where the Adelaide media falls down.

I'd suggest it would then be plastered on the back page of a newspaper about a "stoush" - again we have a poorly run newspaper head up by an inferior sports editor with a Port bias, who is too busy talking about some stokes fella who is going to win the Magaery next year.

I hope Chapman does make a public statement,I doubt he will, but at least we are getting small signs of rebuttal to bullshit.

 

[headache1]

Consent forms prove nothing. Demonstrates an intent to use whatever it was they signed up for, but falls well short of evidence of use or attempted use.

If the players admitted it, that's another thing. It would still be hard to prove actual use "you don't really know what was in the syringe, did you Mr Watson?" but it would be hard to get around attempted use.

As to the "charge sheet", I've read it, but I have also been around the traps enough to know that sometimes, the complaints will be false (I think there's been a rape up there!!). While I doubt the AFL would have simply made stuff up to put in that document, I wouldn't be surprised if they took the absolute high watermark of the evidence and released it publicly to put pressure on Essendon to come to the party. I'd be almost certain that there's another side to the story.

A VFL player was recently banned by ASADA for 18 months for importing a fat burning product containing trace amounts of a banned steroid. He didn't even see the product, as it was intercepted by customs.

 

[adelaidecrows]

Demetriou said that part of the reason each team got the penalties they got was because Essendon fully cooperated with investigations and we didn't, which goes against what was declared by the AFL themselves when we got done.

I have a major issue with Andy D's view of cooperating fully with the investigation. I for one don't state having a press conference calling for the removal of Andrew D, stating they are being picked on by people in the AFL, calling for a motion of lack of confidence in the AFL commission, going to the Supreme Court etc as cooperation. I also am not convinced they did self report as Andy D claims. There is evidence galore Essendon were tipped off on an investigation that was already over 12 months old and they reported something was up as a result, but I hardly state an *I know nothing defence* would work anywhere else in the world other then a sporting organisation that doesn't want to know.

My memory of the crows event is we were congratulated for coming forward and being honest and cooperative.

I also am questioning the starting points of how serious they viewed this scandal. What were the full possible penalties that Essendon negotiated down. Surely we deserve to know now.

 

[Tex Support]

Ugh, Chapman...

"Blah blah blah! We're outraged!
I rang the AFL and Blah Blah Blah!
I talked tough about it!
We had a good talk about it...
All good. Did you know I'm mates with Andy D.
Haha he's a top bloke Andy D.
Haha you're a good guy too Rowie.
Haha, I've done my job.
Haha lifes great. I love my job and my mates."

What a toothless tiger. The exact opposite of what we need.

 

[Elder van Berlo]

A VFL player was recently banned by ASADA for 18 months for importing a fat burning product containing trace amounts of a banned steroid. He didn't even see the product, as it was intercepted by customs.

I didn't realise that. Just looked it up, apparently the importing of it constituted "attempted use". I have not looked into whatever case law there might be on what is "attempted use" (and wouldn't know where to start) but it seems to me that importing something that never reaches you could not possibly be "attempted use".

If the bar is so low, perhaps signing consent forms would be enough to clear it.

Or perhaps, Essendon can afford better lawyers than VFL players.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

The entire Balco brigade were convicted on circumstantial evidence, same with Biogenesis

The biggest scalps in the world of ped have often been convicted without a smoking gun

I guess it comes down to whether someone from Essendon breaks ranks.

Unless witnesses say that Player X took substance Y then I don't see where the proof would come from. That may happen I guess.

 

[Adelaide Cows]

Not really amazed by the response here to Rob Chapman's phone call to AA (sadly).

Reading between the lines Chapman rang Demetrio and asked for his version of events so he could then advise the Crows supporters that it was bullshit.

This he did.

Rob Chapman is a strong respected business leader and sometimes that means not going off half cocked in the media just to appease the bf community. I've full confidence that the important people he deals with day to day know what he is about, and that he realises that he will cop shit from those not privy to the behind closed door negotiations and conversations that we wish we could hear.

 

[*PAF]

Dunno.

Essendon (Hird) timeline (on BF):
1. Say what?
2. Shit!! Hey fellas guess what?
3. Self reporting.
4. I take full responsibility everyone will cooperate fully.
5. Results come back from initial investigation.
6. Double shit!! **** that, I will not ****ing take full responsibility!!
7. Big shit fight.

Adelaide Timeline (on BF):
1. Leak from Tippett's camp.
2. Bullshit. Move on, nothing to see here.
3. Leak from Tippett's camp.
4. Bullshit. It's just talk from his father.
5. Leak from Tippett's camp.
6. Bullshit. Thy're just a bunch of money hungry pricks.
7. Leak from Tippett's camp.
...
n. Self reporting
n+1. Investigation

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

That is just heresay facts, nothing that would hold up in court unless Dank came forward with any evidence of it. Well, when I say zero, there are texts and the like, but nothing that would hold up at this stage. It's why ASADA is still investigating so they can gather enough circumstantial evidence that it's put beyond reasonable doubt.

Dank admitted giving TB-4 to Essendon players in an interview, then tried retract it after when the reporter told him it was banned. This along with Essendon ordering (through Dank), paying for it (they have a copy of the invoice) & players signing a consent form, should be plenty of circumstantial evidence.

I don't think is the last penalty on the matter...

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

You're taking a lot of liberties here. Which makes these not facts.

Point out which of my statements is not a fact.

Forgot to add Dank was interviewed & admitted to using TB-4, then tried to retract after when the reporter told him it was banned.

 

[*PAF]

AFL chairman Mike Fitzpatrick said we did, so it's his word against Demetriou's.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-05-...sion-fitzpatrick-and-demetriou-notes-attached

Mr Fitzpatrick said he wanted to acknowledge for the record the Adelaide Crows Football Club, led by club chairman Rob Chapman, had co-operated fully with the AFL, once the Investigative process had begun, including opening all records to auditors and making all relevant staff available at all times, including those individuals facing charges.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-05-...sion-fitzpatrick-and-demetriou-notes-attached

Is the part in red the difference of opinion between Vlad and Chapman?

 

[adelaidecrows]

Ugh, Chapman...

"Blah blah blah! We're outraged!
I rang the AFL and Blah Blah Blah!
I talked tough about it!
We had a good talk about it...
All good. Did you know I'm mates with Andy D.
Haha he's a top bloke Andy D.
Haha you're a good guy too Rowie.
Haha, I've done my job.
Haha lifes great. I love my job and my mates."

What a toothless tiger. The exact opposite of what we need.

Sadly its something we have to cop. We cant appeal a punishment 12 months after its been handed down just because of the Essendon sanctions. We may not like it, but legally we have no legs to stand on. All we can do is make it known we as a club aren't happy with the AFL. Bottom line though we still did the wrong thing. It sucks, Trigg must go but we cant keep attacking the AFC just because we aren't getting the answers we want to hear because it will never happen, even if a new administration and board is appointed. Still wont change our sanctions.

New administration will make me feel better though.