Robert Muir

[Leviathan Pie]

Are Jewish schools that receive government money and turn away non Jews racist?

Interesting example, would assume thats fairly discriminatory?

 

[Daicos Torpedo]

Really?

I don't think anyone disputes the horrific nature of what went on throughout his life, especially childhood.

But I'm not sure his interaction with Robbie Flower, for example, does anything to harm the 'violent thug' tag.

'Sorry Robbie, I've had a rough life, so I'm going to have to violently assault you without cause'

I don't think I have heard about or seen this.
What about 'Sorry Robbie, your team mates have relentlessly racist targeted me all match as the best opposition player. No one from my own team has my back, and since you're the best player for your team it only seems fair to pay someone back"

 

[Leviathan Pie]

I don't think I have heard about or seen this.
What about 'Sorry Robbie, your team mates have relentlessly racist targeted me all match as the best opposition player. No one from my own team has my back, and since you're the best player for your team it only seems fair to pay someone back"

Yeah....Im not sure thats going to work out.

 

[Daicos Torpedo]

Yeah....Im not sure thats going to work out.

My point exactly in labelling him a vicious thug without addressing how or what made him react in those ways. No one is born a thug and everyone has their limits. Flower would have more than likely have been innocent, but maybe not.

 

[magpies42]

Racism is crap. As a society there's no place for it in 2020, no question. And attempting to right the wrongs of the past is ok.

Muir was also a violent thug by nature. Its interesting the parallels that are trying to be drawn.

A bit chicken and egg I feel, was he violent because he was unfairly provoked or because was he violent because that’s all he knew.

Violent or not, there is no excuse for that sort of behaviour.

We know better now, let’s not make excuses for past mistakes.

 

[loki04]

Muir's longterm injuries should have been fixed years ago. He should have been assisted when he was struggling to get a job a house...but at least do it now. The people who abused him and spat at him are disgusting human beings... if in fact they are human.

You would imagine those people are now in either their late 60s to well and truly buried given it was 40 -50 years ago.

It's a sad old world in the past.

 

[Markfs]

You would imagine those people are now in either their late 60s to well and truly buried given it was 40 -50 years ago.

It's a sad old world in the past.

I get the feeling that some people are more inclined to keep their mouths shut these days. Or they hang around in groups that are outside the current public opinion. The other problem is that parents hand it down to their kids, so the originals might be dead and buried but the attitudes remain. I get told that the current generation is better but I see a lot more - obviously because of social media - people using name calling to make their point and win arguments. I dont think that is a progression.

 

[Markfs]

I read an article which had a few words in response by Muir. He didnt seem to refer to all the apologies. He seems to be affected most by the general response - especially the money to fix his health. I think it takes an hour for a CEO to draft something...send it to the lawyers...check with the board...and then post it on the site. It's better than saying nothing but its so impersonal. I think people who did it should say something but then they would get death threats and their houses burnt.

 

[jackcass]

Did you attend Vic Park in the 80's Mark?

I did. In the 60's & 70's as well. Was certainly colourful. At the time I was less aware of the abuse thrown at opposition players as I was to that directed toward our own which I struggled to understand.

 

[jackcass]

I did in the 70s. I left melb in about 1980. In fact, it was 1980 as I can still remember being at a party in perth for the 80 grand final.

And yes, it was rough in the Rush stand. I'm not sure about the members but they were probably pretty feral too. It was a working class game in those days, but there's no excuse for some of the behaviour of the crowd in those days. The colour thing was the first thing that a lot of the crowd grabbed for when the opposition were winning.

I don't think any ground was all that different. I still maintain the worst crowds I've seen at games were those at Windy Hill and Moorabbin in the 70's.

 

[jackcass]

You would imagine those people are now in either their late 60s to well and truly buried given it was 40 -50 years ago.

It's a sad old world in the past.

It was a simpler world and a world that was ignorant of "racism". It was a time when the treatment of aboriginals wasn't that different to the treatment of migrants. They weren't WASPish.

 

[gouki88]

I don't think any ground was all that different. I still maintain the worst crowds I've seen at games were those at Windy Hill and Moorabbin in the 70's.

My dad went to the footy every week in the 70s and came to a similar conclusion as you regarding Moorabbin.

 

[TW Sherrin]

I don't think any ground was all that different. I still maintain the worst crowds I've seen at games were those at Windy Hill and Moorabbin in the 70's.

Moorabbin in the 80s was shocking. There were no saints there at that time. The animal enclosure was a cesspit.

I find it disappointing that its only collingwood which is labeled with a race this issue when it was rife through all clubs during that time.

 

[Stripes B and W]

Moorabbin in the 80s was shocking. There were no saints there at that time. The animal enclosure was a cesspit.

I find it disappointing that its only collingwood which is labeled with a race this issue when it was rife through all clubs during that time.

While i agree with you TWS that the Collingwood Football Club seems to have the racist label affixed to us more than other clubs, the Muir article clearly stated he copped it from every team at every ground.
We still should and indeed i hope we do, address our own history, i think the "official" apology on Club Letterhead so to speak was a good first step.
We can all recount a zillion examples of horrible behaviour to ourselves, friends, oppo players and own players based on prejudice.
It's easy to want to respond back in a defensive manner and say we will never forget what happened to our wonderful player at Moorabbin oval in July 1972 at the behest of the StKilda coach nor what was hurled at our players from the same oval's 'Animal Enclosure'. Best we separate it all and with sincerity, honesty and haste address the issue.

 

[Markfs]

I don't think any ground was all that different. I still maintain the worst crowds I've seen at games were those at Windy Hill and Moorabbin in the 70's.

The MCG was probably more gentile. I went to Kardinia Park in the 70s on a few occasions and that was probably too. I think some of the Collingwood people at the time got too tied up the the "cult of the mongrel". You still see evidence of it. As if abusing someone somehow equates with passion for team. I've always liked teams that win smarter than that.

As a sidelight, I was watching Tszyu last night...steely eye and perfect strategy and kind words afterwards. A perfect performance in total. I appreciated that. I dont appreciate some dickhead abusing the opposition and spitting on them. It's dumb and I honestly believe its counterproductive to total collingwood culture of professionalism. I honestly feel that people at the club - bucks included - would love to retrain many of the collingwood masses.... but a lot of them pay the bills.

 

[Markfs]

I was just thinking about melb at the time. I grew up in brunswick which was probably half a rung up from collingwood. I remember going to school as a 5 year old paranoid that people would find out that i was one quarter italian. white australia policy. yellow peril. british superiority. So much crap in that era. Yet neighbourhoods were far more friendly. Go figure.

 

[jackcass]

The MCG was probably more gentile. I went to Kardinia Park in the 70s on a few occasions and that was probably too. I think some of the Collingwood people at the time got too tied up the the "cult of the mongrel". You still see evidence of it. As if abusing someone somehow equates with passion for team. I've always liked teams that win smarter than that.

As a sidelight, I was watching Tszyu last night...steely eye and perfect strategy and kind words afterwards. A perfect performance in total. I appreciated that. I dont appreciate some dickhead abusing the opposition and spitting on them. It's dumb and I honestly believe its counterproductive to total collingwood culture of professionalism. I honestly feel that people at the club - bucks included - would love to retrain many of the collingwood masses.... but a lot of them pay the bills.

My recollections of the old Southern Stand at the G in the 70's don't differ too much from these other grounds. The terraced concrete standing room awash with smashed polystyrene eskies and empty steel cans, reeking of the urine that flowed freely down the steps.

The catery was like an oversized country oval with the dirt mounds of the outer that you had to negotiate up and down to access food and drink outlets. It was likely the most sedate venue during those times but I only ever ventured down there twice prior to the more recent pre-season games and never got to experience the members type areas so hard for me to confirm either way.

 

[TW Sherrin]

While i agree with you TWS that the Collingwood Football Club seems to have the racist label affixed to us more than other clubs, the Muir article clearly stated he copped it from every team at every ground.
We still should and indeed i hope we do, address our own history, i think the "official" apology on Club Letterhead so to speak was a good first step.
We can all recount a zillion examples of horrible behaviour to ourselves, friends, oppo players and own players based on prejudice.
It's easy to want to respond back in a defensive manner and say we will never forget what happened to our wonderful player at Moorabbin oval in July 1972 at the behest of the StKilda coach nor what was hurled at our players from the same oval's 'Animal Enclosure'. Best we separate it all and with sincerity, honesty and haste address the issue.

Firstly, I 100% agree we should be addressing the clubs past.

I just get a sick of the Collingwood bashing in the media. No other club (aside from STK) has been mentioned by the media. It's petty.

 

[Markfs]

My recollections of the old Southern Stand at the G in the 70's don't differ too much from these other grounds. The terraced concrete standing room awash with smashed polystyrene eskies and empty steel cans, reeking of the urine that flowed freely down the steps.

The catery was like an oversized country oval with the dirt mounds of the outer that you had to negotiate up and down to access food and drink outlets. It was likely the most sedate venue during those times but I only ever ventured down there twice prior to the more recent pre-season games and never got to experience the members type areas so hard for me to confirm either way.

yes i remember people pissing in their cans so they didnt lose their spot in the standing room.

 

[Markfs]

Firstly, I 100% agree we should be addressing the clubs past.

I just get a sick of the Collingwood bashing in the media. No other club (aside from STK) has been mentioned by the media. It's petty.

the media treads a well worn path because it's the easiest. in life, the people who get crap piled on them are usually the ones that had it piled on them in the past ....if someone's on the ground getting kicked, people will come out of the woodwork to kick them as well. Rather than meaningless public statements, collingwood people need to change their image....get their teeth fixed... speak graciously after winning or losing.

it wont happen

 

[JB1975]

As a sidelight, I was watching Tszyu last night...steely eye and perfect strategy and kind words afterwards. A perfect performance in total. I appreciated that. I dont appreciate some dickhead abusing the opposition and spitting on them. It's dumb and I honestly believe its counterproductive to total collingwood culture of professionalism. I honestly feel that people at the club - bucks included - would love to retrain many of the collingwood masses.... but a lot of them pay the bills.

Some of Tim's body shots were rather unkind, but is does otherwise seem to be a lovely young man.

 

[Markfs]

Some of Tim's body shots were rather unkind, but is does otherwise seem to be a lovely young man.

the trick is to hurt your opponent while appearing to treat him with much respect....

 

[JB1975]

the trick is to hurt your opponent while appearing to treat him with much respect....

In that case it would seem that Tim is developing quite nicely.

 

[Markfs]

In that case it would seem that Tim is developing quite nicely.

actually, i think that it relates to the Pies. I think the concept is best put into one word as "ruthless". I dont think the Pies have been called that consistently during my time as a supporter. Surprisingly, you hear it a bit about Richmond and they were laughable 4 years ago, so it's easy to turn it around.
"Unsociable" is similar without the family friendly content. Mongrel is just mindless.

as for tim, his test will come when he finds someone who can punch and can defend himself...

 

[magpies42]

Are Jewish schools that receive government money and turn away non Jews racist?

Yes they are one of the more racist and non-inclusive cultures going around. I like your point though, there are so many inconsistencies on how we scrutinise racism and how we hold people and cultures to account. We are a hypocritical society on most topics of importance.

I think racism towards our indigenous people is an issue worth focussing on, it is a fundamental issue and probably our most pressing.