USA Roe, the evangelicals and the war on choice

[Stokey]

Islamophobic was a term used for people who wanted to stop brown people coming to Western countries.
Islamophobes argued that we shouldn't let brown people into Western countries, because they might be Islamic, and because they might push their religious beliefs on others.

Christians are actually pushing their religious beliefs on others.
Christians aren't being attacked... their actions are...

But you don't care, and you weren't looking for an answer. You're just repeating the latest talking points.

I'd be disappointed if I was looking for an answer as you didn't provide one.

 

[CM86]

I'd be disappointed if I was looking for an answer as you didn't provide one.

But you don't care, and you weren't looking for an answer. You're just repeating the latest talking points.

You just stated that I'm right... that you're not looking for an answer... that you're just repeating the latest talking points...

 

[Father Jack]

DC is an area for the seat of US Government and is not a State

Puerto Rico is not a State

They only mentioned 52 different sets of politicians, so that could be the 50 states plus territories

 

[madmug]

I know this will be met with 'Crowder' but watch it and then tell me if honestly think this is staged or these clinics do exist?

Yes a very emotive 'piece' by Fox. Generalised pretty well everything.

The Trump SCOTUS have allowed States to ban ALL abortions. No matter what the reason.

What is your 'piece' on that? Or care for the level of maternal deaths in the US? Or the level of medical care for the poorest people in the US, or low education quality for the poor, or those who don't get a sports scholarship in the US, or poor quality food for the LSE groups.

Have you seen the Churches push concerns for these serious issues?

Have they done anything for those forced to live in cars? Are mentally ill on the streets?

Anything on raising wages to at least subsistence levels?

Anything that helps people post parturition?

Apart from praying for those killed by gun violence of course.

I dont expect you'll discuss any of this.

The hateful Ultra religious don't. They're the ones dominating the field.

 

[BruceFromBalnarring]

Yes a very emotive 'piece' by Fox. Generalised pretty well everything.

The Trump SCOTUS have allowed States to ban ALL abortions. No matter what the reason.

What is your 'piece' on that? Or care for the level of maternal deaths in the US? Or the level of medical care for the poorest people in the US, or low education quality for the poor, or those who don't get a sports scholarship in the US, or poor quality food for the LSE groups.

Have you seen the Churches push concerns for these serious issues?

Have they done anything for those forced to live in cars? Are mentally ill on the streets?

Anything on raising wages to at least subsistence levels?

Anything that helps people post parturition?

Apart from praying for those killed by gun violence of course.

I dont expect you'll discuss any of this.

The hateful Ultra religious don't. They're the ones dominating the field.

You keep saying this. The various churches have been running and funding hospitals, orphanages, schools, charities, and the like for centuries. As well as that, they have been political advocates not just for abortion restrictions, but for welfare and family friendly policies that indeed would, in their view, foster a more friendly environment for children to be born.

Now the hateful response will no doubt be "they only did it to spread their fantasy worldview". Well ok, but they have still done it. Long before governments did, and probably to better effect over the period.

 

[Crankyhawk]

I know this will be met with 'Crowder' but watch it and then tell me if honestly think this is staged or these clinics do exist?

Difficult to say I was more focused on the statistics given (1.2% late term though unclear if they have included failed pregnancies where baby has lethal defect therefore induced)

 

[Crankyhawk]

Firstly, are you a woman living in th US?

With a name of Sir_ I'm guessing not.
So exactly how are the dictating your life?

rrading this thread and the other RvW thread there seems to a hatred of anything Christian.

I remember when ISIS was a thing and anyone who generalised Islam were called Islamaphobic.

The exact same thing is happening in this and the other RvW thread except it is about Christianity.

Why is attacking moderate Christians acceptable but attacking moderate Islam is not?

Well I’m anti any religion that imposes on others. So sure you can call me islamophobic as well as Pentecostal-phobic and any other anti religious label. I dgaf

 

[Father Jack]

You keep saying this. The various churches have been running and funding hospitals, orphanages, schools, charities, and the like for centuries. As well as that, they have been political advocates not just for abortion restrictions, but for welfare and family friendly policies that indeed would, in their view, foster a more friendly environment for children to be born.

Now the hateful response will no doubt be "they only did it to spread their fantasy worldview". Well ok, but they have still done it. Long before governments did, and probably to better effect over the period.

Yes, and we now know what went on behind closed doors in a lot of those church-run hospitals, orphanages, schools, charities, and the like for centuries, don't we?

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

I'm not anti-choice by any means and think there is a line that needs to be drawn, albeit while acknowledging the difficulty of finding that line. But the leftist States in the US have been pushing this issue far too far in the past half a decade where some States were/are allowing extremely late term abortions which are clear infanticide for my take.

Given all the Roe overturning did was put the power back into the hands of the States, i think the decision will have some useful utility in bringing the issue back into the legislature. The best outcome would be common sense choice rights across the country based on federal legislation that sets a clear line and prohibits infanticide-style late terms abortions.

That's a ridiculous take. If you think that is all overturning Roe vs Wade did then you are missing the point.

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

You keep saying this. The various churches have been running and funding hospitals, orphanages, schools, charities, and the like for centuries. As well as that, they have been political advocates not just for abortion restrictions, but for welfare and family friendly policies that indeed would, in their view, foster a more friendly environment for children to be born.

Now the hateful response will no doubt be "they only did it to spread their fantasy worldview". Well ok, but they have still done it. Long before governments did, and probably to better effect over the period.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

That's a ridiculous take. If you think that is all overturning Roe vs Wade did then you are missing the point.

That's literally what it did. How am i "missing the point"?

 

[Werewolf]

 

[Gough]

As they should and they should be reminding the women of America at every chance they get just who's responsible for the situation they find themselves in. Perversely this may well be a political win for them.

 

[Father Jack]

There's a reason why the justices lied about their position on Rowe v Wade during their confirmation hearings.

 

[Maggie5]

Yep R v W, voter rights, health, gun laws, Trump's lies they are all on the ballot paper.

Fund raise on the back of all of those issues. Thank you SCOTUS.

 

[Syd]

They only mentioned 52 different sets of politicians, so that could be the 50 states plus territories

DC doesn't have a set of politicians

Puerto Rico is bound by Federal Laws, but because it is not a State cannot vote in Federal Elections

Still 50 sets of Politicians (which is 51 too many IMO)

 

[madmug]

You keep saying this. The various churches have been running and funding hospitals, orphanages, schools, charities, and the like for centuries. As well as that, they have been political advocates not just for abortion restrictions, but for welfare and family friendly policies that indeed would, in their view, foster a more friendly environment for children to be born.

Now the hateful response will no doubt be "they only did it to spread their fantasy worldview". Well ok, but they have still done it. Long before governments did, and probably to better effect over the period.

Now don't get me wrong, unlike the SCOTUS ruling which goes against the wishes of the vast majority of US citizens, I, unlike SCOTUS, don't throw the baby out with the bath water. (Pun intended!!!)

Its the actions of the extreme religious elements who have run this extreme agenda of imposing their wishes on the majority, have interposed church on state which is what we see & rail against.

They have done basically SFA except fund raise & live the lifestyle of the rich & famous which is what most people observe. And then propose to lecture the rest of us!!

Then we have the protected sexual predatory behaviour which has gone on for centuries.

So for all the good they may do, its their holier than thou behaviour of that vocal/extreme edge that gets the press.

The few miserable apologies offered by Pope JP2nd in 2000, are just that. Miserable.

Who's going to apologise for this mess?

 

[Saint]

You keep saying this. The various churches have been running and funding hospitals, orphanages, schools, charities, and the like for centuries. As well as that, they have been political advocates not just for abortion restrictions, but for welfare and family friendly policies that indeed would, in their view, foster a more friendly environment for children to be born.

Now the hateful response will no doubt be "they only did it to spread their fantasy worldview". Well ok, but they have still done it. Long before governments did, and probably to better effect over the period.

If you go back far enough, yes the church-led morality was a better alternative than monarchies and totalitarianism of the past.

But we've had democracy in Australia for about 50 years. And as a democracy we don't need the church any more to try to impose its morality.

Thanks to the church for some of the good deeds, we don't need to go into all the bad ones, but you're not needed any more, in democratic countries, so you've outstayed your welcome in civilisation.

It seems like the only reason they want to exist any more is to maintain power for themselves and that includes imposing their will on unsuspecting children.

 

[Chief]

The Church wants to be the defacto constitution of the country. How do we interpret the constitution? Precedent, utilitarianism, ... etc.

Church says NO - the constitution and laws should be interpreted through the lens of the Bible, because all our morals come to us through Christianity.

Stuff that for a lark. They all pick and choose which parts of the Bible they think should be used anyway. It's a hidey-hole for personal prejudice.

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

That's literally what it did. How am i "missing the point"?

Because you are oversimplifying the matter.

It's made the whole issue a bigger political football than it was a week ago. I feel for the poor women who are unlucky enough to live in republican states.

 

[Saint]

The Church wants to be the defacto constitution of the country. How do we interpret the constitution? Precedent, utilitarianism, ... etc.

Church says NO - the constitution and laws should be interpreted through the lens of the Bible, because all our morals come to us through Christianity.

Stuff that for a lark. They all pick and choose which parts of the Bible they think should be used anyway. It's a hidey-hole for personal prejudice.

Yes, it's the absolutism of their morality which is based on complete nonsense which is the problem.

But they can't possibly see it because they were taught from a very young age that all their morality comes from their religious texts. All religions are the same in that sense, and all equally out-dated and pointless in functioning democracies.

When you point out that the Bible/Koran aren't exactly texts of pure peace (both involve plenty of God-sanctioned genocide) it hurts their brain. The cognitive dissonance kicks in and they start to deny truth and make themselves sound as ridiculous as they truly are.

If they knew that their morality came from themselves, that their good deeds were their own, not provided by some other entity as a reward they would be a lot happier.

 

[western royboy]

Now don't get me wrong, unlike the SCOTUS ruling which goes against the wishes of the vast majority of US citizens, I, unlike SCOTUS, don't throw the baby out with the bath water. (Pun intended!!!)

Its the actions of the extreme religious elements who have run this extreme agenda of imposing their wishes on the majority, have interposed church on state which is what we see & rail against.

They have done basically SFA except fund raise & live the lifestyle of the rich & famous which is what most people observe. And then propose to lecture the rest of us!!

Then we have the protected sexual predatory behaviour which has gone on for centuries.

So for all the good they may do, its their holier than thou behaviour of that vocal/extreme edge that gets the press.

The few miserable apologies offered by Pope JP2nd in 2000, are just that. Miserable.

Who's going to apologise for this mess?

Give any organisation the same perks for a given period (Ie. generous funding and tax free status including fbt provisions) for a period of time and watch the corporates flood in. The argument that the Churches are too big to fail is pushed by one group…themselves, it is bullshit

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

The Church wants to be the defacto constitution of the country. How do we interpret the constitution? Precedent, utilitarianism, ... etc.

Church says NO - the constitution and laws should be interpreted through the lens of the Bible, because all our morals come to us through Christianity.

Stuff that for a lark. They all pick and choose which parts of the Bible they think should be used anyway. It's a hidey-hole for personal prejudice.

The Church can collectively suck my baws.

 

[owen87]

The Church can collectively suck my baws.

Only if you're under age.

 

[Chief]

Laughed my butt off: