Society/Culture Reproductive Rights: Roe vs Wade, abortion, etc

[Scallop Industry Thug]

But men can have babies I’ve been told….

Go find one of the million trans threads you repressed losers vomit up in.

 

[ElectricG]

Is your position that all termination of pregnancy is wrong, even zygotes?

This is a picture of a zygote:

View attachment 1433213

I don’t, mate. I think reasonable people on both sides of the debate agree that abortion becomes more morally fraught as the it occurs later in a pregnancy. The pro-choicers argue that things with arms, legs, and a heartbeat are “biological soup”, and “a cluster of cells”. I will agree that a zygote like you have shown really is a cluster of cells. If we’re talking morning after pill, I still feel some amount of “cmon get your sh*t together” but I don’t think it’s particularly immoral.

 

[bourbons]

...relying on welfare. But they would eventually weather that storm

In the US? Yeah dunno about that.

Might also need to define "weather the storm". Is that just mother and child are still alive? Is living an abject poverty or in jail "weathering the storm"?

Others have no money and no support. Would you not agree that these people should not be taking the risk? After all, they KNOW the risk. Nobody at high school age gets to play dumb.
I don’t view the arrival of the child as their rightful punishment or anything like that - it is more often the pro-choice view that a child is a punishment or a bad thing. I just don’t think unborn babies should be punished for the mistakes of others.

Ok, so we're back to expecting teenagers to just abstain from sex. As I said, fantasy land stuff.

And no, I would not agree that poor people should not have sex because they can't 100% guarantee they won't get pregnant. That seems totally bizarre to me.

 

[bourbons]

Men can have babies.

Eh? Is this something some far-out academic said once? Or is it generally accepted within the left side of politics in the US?

 

[rumply]

The Birth Dearth: The Sad but True Reason Why What’s Happening in Texas Right Now Shouldn’t…

It was always going to end this way

aninjusticemag.com

In 1987, Ben Wattenberg, former advisor to President Lyndon B. Johnson and a heavy hitter within the Democratic Party, published a very popular book called The Birth Dearth. The book purports:

“The major problem confronting the United States today is there aren’t enough white babies being born. If we don’t do something about this and do it now, white people will be in the numerical minority and we will no longer be a white man’s land.”

When critics called him a white supremacist, he instead claimed that he was a cultural chauvinist, and that western European culture just happened to be the best one in existence.

Mr. Wattenberg saw the birth dearth as a solvable problem, and offered three potential solutions. The first was paying American women to have babies. He said this plan was untenable because “we would have to pay women of all colors to have babies.” Darn those pesky citizenship laws!

His second option was to increase our immigration quotas. This too was flawed, because most of the people coming to America in the 80s were people of color. His third option was the one he thought made the most sense:

The third thing we could do is remember that sixty percent of the fetuses that are aborted every year are white. If we could keep that sixty percent of life alive, that would solve our birth dearth.”

 

[Evolved1]

I don’t, mate. I think reasonable people on both sides of the debate agree that abortion becomes more morally fraught as the it occurs later in a pregnancy. The pro-choicers argue that things with arms, legs, and a heartbeat are “biological soup”, and “a cluster of cells”. I will agree that a zygote like you have shown really is a cluster of cells. If we’re talking morning after pill, I still feel some amount of “cmon get your sh*t together” but I don’t think it’s particularly immoral.

Being pro-choice isn't necessarily pro-abortion. Most people from both sides of the debate would love to see the number of abortions drop, and the main point of contention is whether banning abortion is a step in the right direction. I think it isn't.

I'd rather a focus on education and availability of alternatives like free contraception.

Most pro-choicers would agree there's a shift in the validity of moral arguments later in pregnancy. I certainly do, and personally wouldn't want my partner to abort a fetus. Even so, my values and circumstances don't translate to others, which is why I'm pro-choice.

 

[adelaide_girl]

Neither.

Picture this I am a 20 year old who has been in a relationship with the same person since I was 14 - said person decides after a pregnancy occurs they don’t want ‘nothing to do with this’.

I chose to have my now 26 year old daughter but I was lucky had family support and a people willing to let me still get my career - she has never seen her father - he didn’t want a kid - she has suffered with abandonment issues a lot. He also has never paid a cent in child support as he never worked a day after that…

If I wasn’t blessed to be from a middle class family who supported me I’m not sure my decision would be the same.


End of the day every situation is unique - and ultimately only the mother will be there to support the child no matter what as she is growing the child and physically, emotionally effected not the father.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Evolved1]

Eh? Is this something some far-out academic said once? Or is it generally accepted within the left side of politics in the US?

He's talking about trans men.

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

Umm sorry I am confused. Can men not have babies now?

Go find someone else to crank it to, champ.

 

[Rob]

Being pro-choice isn't necessarily pro-abortion. Most people from both sides of the debate would love to see the number of abortions drop, and the main point of contention is whether banning abortion is a step in the right direction. I think it isn't.

I'd rather a focus on education and availability of alternatives like free contraception.

Most pro-choicers would agree there's a shift in the validity of moral arguments later in pregnancy. I certainly do, and personally wouldn't want my partner to abort a fetus. Even so, my values and circumstances don't translate to others, which is why I'm pro-choice.

The problem is that the majority of the loudest voices in this debate are on the extremes. Either "literally 2 or more cells is a human life" or "Abortion should be legal right up to birth". Then worse, those people force you to take sides, despite just about everyone not belonging to either extreme.

Most people don't object to the morning after pill, and most people object to aborting at 8 months.

But nuance doesn't get clicks. This is more a story of how terrible our media now is.

 

[Nuggs Bunny]

The problem is that the majority of the loudest voices in this debate are on the extremes. Either "literally 2 or more cells is a human life" or "Abortion should be legal right up to birth". Then worse, those people force you to take sides, despite just about everyone not belonging to either extreme.

Most people don't object to the morning after pill, and most people object to aborting at 8 months.

But nuance doesn't get clicks. This is more a story of how terrible our media now is.

This is just both sides bullshit. The "nuanced" position was legally protected in the United States until yesterday. Now hundreds of millions of people are about to be subjected to an extreme law and it isn't about aborting babies at 8 months. But sure, both sides.

 

[Rob]

This is just both sides bullshit. The "nuanced" position was legally protected in the United States until yesterday. Now hundreds of millions of people are about to be subjected to an extreme law and it isn't about aborting babies at 8 months. But sure, both sides.

You think i'm defending the various state laws that ban it outright? GTFOH.

I'm just saying the debate is so toxic because it's dominated by a tiny minority of people that hold extreme views shared by virtually nobody. Like pretty much every other issue, it's made black and white by a pathetic media that, in the most part, ignores the shades of grey that most people occupy.

 

[Nuggs Bunny]

You think i'm defending the various state laws that ban it outright? GTFOH.

I'm just saying the debate is so toxic because it's dominated by a tiny minority of people that hold extreme views shared by virtually nobody. Like pretty much every other issue, it's made black and white by a pathetic media that, in the most part, ignores the shades of grey that most people occupy.

And I'm just saying you've picked the wrong week to play the enlightened centrism card. The talk about the SCOTUS decision not a debate between two extremes, it's outrage that one extreme has won and if you're in the grey area like the majority of people then you should also be outraged about this.

 

[Rob]

And I'm just saying you've picked the wrong week to play the enlightened centrism card. The talk about the SCOTUS decision not a debate between two extremes, it's outrage that one extreme has won and if you're in the grey area like the majority of people then you should also be outraged about this.

lol, one extreme hasn't done s**t. This is not a debate in the extremes in anywhere other than extremists heads.

 

[Nuggs Bunny]

lol, one extreme hasn't done s**t. This is not a debate in the extremes in anywhere other than extremists heads.

Not sure if you've been paying attention but 13 US states will have banned almost all of the nuanced abortions in the next 30 days with another half dozen to follow suit shortly. Rape and incest victims will be forced to carry their abusers baby to term.

 

[Rob]

Not sure if you've been paying attention but 13 US states will have banned almost all of the nuanced abortions in the next 30 days with another half dozen to follow suit shortly. Rape and incest victims will be forced to carry their abusers baby to term.

Yes, and that's s**t.

 

[Gralin]

Yes, and that's s**t.

So point me to the pro choice people advocating for termination up to birth in your both sides posting or shut up

 

[Gralin]

No. I have two children and my partner wasn’t “controlled” into either of them.

Sure buddy.
You don't support abortion from consensual sex related pregnancies you don't get to claim that

 

[ElectricG]

Sure buddy.
You don't support abortion from consensual sex related pregnancies you don't get to claim that

Who am I controlling or wanting to control then?

 

[Gralin]

Who am I controlling or wanting to control then?

Anyone who gets pregnant apparently

 

[ElectricG]

Anyone who gets pregnant apparently

You are incorrect.

 

[Gralin]

You are incorrect.

So you wouldn't vote for abortion rights to be removed or try and stop a friend or family member from getting an abortion?

 

[owen87]

America is well on its way to becoming a real world Handmaid’s Tale.

Any intelligent woman should be planning their escape from the red states ASAP.

 

[Rob]

So point me to the pro choice people advocating for termination up to birth in your both sides posting or shut up

This popped up in my twitter feed as an example:



But it's the natural progression of anyone that uses the black and white argument that it is immoral to force a woman to give birth.

And I say that as someone that is pro-choice to the point that the bunch of cells turns into a human life. I think most people share my view (might be wrong).

 

[darth_timon]

What do you mean by this? This is where the pro life argument gets really weird and superstitious IMO.


I would expect both parents to raise the child yes. I think people having sex should be prepared for this possibility. - again, not hard.

Wait, so you'd expect the couple, that have taken reasonable steps to avoid pregnancy, to go ahead with a pregnancy they don't want? Would you suggest abstinence (traditionally this has never worked)? Would you advocate that couples should never have sex? Is sex only about procreation to you?