Roger Federer is not the GOAT

Lethality

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Rafas record is seriously inflated by the French Open, and his USOpen win last in 2017 in which he didn't meet a single top20 player.

If anyone's challenging Roger, with all that considered, it's Djokovic.
 

Lethality

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Federer fans can rest easy knowing whatever happens, their man is easily the most talented player of all time.
 

Roobs321

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Rafas record is seriously inflated by the French Open, and his USOpen win last in 2017 in which he didn't meet a single top20 player.

If anyone's challenging Roger, with all that considered, it's Djokovic.
To be fair though, his form in the 2017 USO was very good. I watched his last few matches and that is the best I've seen from his recent slams (and slam finals). In 2017 AO he was a veteran battler for the most part, fighting his way deep into the tournament, almost winning it and winning a lot of hearts along the way. By 2017 USO he was #1 and looked every bit of it.

The biggest slight against Rafa really is that the periods when he is the best player are brief, it doesn't sustain. Mid 2008-Mid 2009; most of 2010 until early 2011 when Godovic was unmistakable; a couple months in 2013 when Novak became his mental vassal, and arguably for a period in 2017-18 (although Federer's reduced tournament load and the h2h in that period gives that an asterisk). Other than that, he hasn't been the best, or has been injured. He never had that 2-3 year period when he won virtually everything. His 2008 FO through 2012 FO was generally a strong period for him when fit.
 
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bato

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Federer fans can rest easy knowing whatever happens, their man is easily the most talented player of all time.
How did you come to that conclusion? He's probably the smoothest operator but I wouldn't be confidently saying he's 'more talented' than Nadal or Djokovic.
 

Lethality

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How did you come to that conclusion? He's probably the smoothest operator but I wouldn't be confidently saying he's 'more talented' than Nadal or Djokovic.
Being a smooth operator, the ability to make the difficult look mundane, is a manifestation of talent. Aside from that he pretty much has it all, could play just as well if not better in any other era. If we went back to wooden racquets it would affect him the least.
 

Maester

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Recency bias is a significant factor here, Djokovic has been on fire since Wimbledon and it seems like that will continue indefinitely. But Djokovic winning another 5+ slams after his 32nd birthday is not likely historically speaking. History suggests something is likely to get in his way, whether injury, loss of form or a new dominant player or 2 taking over. And any of these things could happen very quickly.

But there's been no great players in the generation that came after Nadal and Djokovic, and the jury's also out on the guys currently 19-22. If one or two of them is going to turn out to be a true great of the game you'd expect them to win a slam pretty soon. So who knows. Right now I think it's reasonably likely that Djokovic will break Federer's weeks at number 1 record, and I'd give him something like a 30-40% chance of breaking the slam record. If he breaks both he'll be a pretty definitive GOAT. If he breaks 1 (by a little bit) but not the other (by a little bit) I think it'll be debatable.
 

Lethality

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Recency bias is a significant factor here, Djokovic has been on fire since Wimbledon and it seems like that will continue indefinitely. But Djokovic winning another 5+ slams after his 32nd birthday is not likely historically speaking. History suggests something is likely to get in his way, whether injury, loss of form or a new dominant player or 2 taking over. And any of these things could happen very quickly.

But there's been no great players in the generation that came after Nadal and Djokovic, and the jury's also out on the guys currently 19-22. If one or two of them is going to turn out to be a true great of the game you'd expect them to win a slam pretty soon. So who knows. Right now I think it's reasonably likely that Djokovic will break Federer's weeks at number 1 record, and I'd give him something like a 30-40% chance of breaking the slam record. If he breaks both he'll be a pretty definitive GOAT. If he breaks 1 (by a little bit) but not the other (by a little bit) I think it'll be debatable.
He would need another 80 weeks at No.1, having 232 so far. Statistically it seems unlikely.
 

bato

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Being a smooth operator, the ability to make the difficult look mundane, is a manifestation of talent. Aside from that he pretty much has it all, could play just as well if not better in any other era. If we went back to wooden racquets it would affect him the least.
I don’t entirely disagree, I just think when it comes to talent all 3 guys are all pretty much the same. I would argue that Novak’s ability to dethrone both Roger and Rafa takes a hell of a lot ‘talent’ too. I would argue that Rafa’s ability to put so much top spin on each ball is just a different level of talent all together. Could argue a lot for all 3 tbh.
 

bato

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He would need another 80 weeks at No.1, having 232 so far. Statistically it seems unlikely.
He’s staying number one until Wimbledon next year. That’s when he’s expected to overtake Roger at weeks at number one. The guy has basically nothing to defend until the second half of the year. He’ll lead the pack by a good 6000 points by season’s end.
 

Socrates2

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Forget Rafa, it's the Joker we all want.Djokervich can break the Slam record and pass Federer.People are already making a get out clause, saying Federer is the best regardless.The Djoker's athleticism is incredible. For mine,I've always ranked Bjorn Borg in the top few. He retired at only 26yo with 11 grand slams.He played the Australian open only once as a 18yo.
 

Thrawn

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Djokovic won't.

He can't be sliding left to right like that throughout his mid-30s, the younger players who have already beaten him in the past couple of years will start to enter an age where they'll begin hitting a physical and mental peak.
 

Thrawn

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He’s staying number one until Wimbledon next year. That’s when he’s expected to overtake Roger at weeks at number one. The guy has basically nothing to defend until the second half of the year. He’ll lead the pack by a good 6000 points by season’s end.
That depends entirely on him going deep at Wimbledon, US and Aus Opens. One or two upsets and he's suddenly back in the pack again. At that age nothing's a given.
 

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bato

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That depends entirely on him going deep at Wimbledon, US and Aus Opens. One or two upsets and he's suddenly back in the pack again. At that age nothing's a given.
He'll make enough points at the tournaments previous to that, then has some to make at the two big finals he lost at the end of the year.
 

blackcat

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...or clay is unique, and as the game advances and evolves, the specialisation becomes akin to the individual swimming strokes. And the raw physical talents are much higher and create barrier to entry for less than elite work-ethic. see: Tomic & Kyrgios (nb this is value neutral, they get a very harsh treatment by media here in Australia)

caveat: Since Stich and Becker and the current 6'10 + 7' footers, no one* serves and volleys

*rhetoric
 

rog1995

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He's not the GOAT, the GOAT doesn't get shallacked by a heated rival so many times on clay!!!
He's nearly 38 and the fact he was the first person in more than 50 years to make the semi's is remarkable. (Having not played clay in 4 years). Conditions were ridicules. Match should've been suspended.
 

Roobs321

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Yeah, Roger still making the FO SFs in 2019 is a ridiculous achievement.
 

who gives a

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I sit firmly in the Nadal camp and if his body was healthy he would certainly have won many more GS. However you cannot but praise Roger for reaching the SF of a GS at the age of 38 👍
 

Munich

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Has his month of birth moved forward this year?

Quite certain he's 37. Not that it even matters, you would think people would stop mentioning age as a negative in regards to Fed, has he not made fools out of most of you enough times yet?
 

HODGEYROAD

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I think Fed still has a shot at winning Wimbledon, which is remarkable considering he's on the cusp of 38.
 

PonsfordMagpie

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I don't regard Federer as the GOAT, but he did remarkably well to reach SF of the French Open a four-year absence from the tournament.

Nadal is just on another planet when he's playing on the clay surface.
 

blackcat

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what are you cats gonna say when Nole takes down the crown as most slams in history? And if Shapovalov or Tsitsipas have not developed, without Murray, with Fed and Rafa aging* Nole could knock off the calendar grand slam. He then makes a compelling case for GOAT himself.

I would still be in Fed's support/court(thinking he is the best)

But I marvel at not Kyrgios, but the crazier Tomic. I have never seen a 20yo be able to come onto the court (mebbe Shapovalov) and control rallies v the elite (Murray, Fed, Rafa, Nadal). Gotta add Tsitsipas to Tomic.

I also have to do a self-devil's_advocate b4 anyone else, the point of a tennis point is to win the point, not control the rally and the court position. Yes, that I do appreciate. Get Tomic on a Gil Reyes, Fuentes, Stephen Dank program, with a father who had foresight and acuity, not merely the Jim Pierce father, ad what I think of Bernie could have been with entry level athleticism, so he could defend. NNot defend like Nole the GOATdefender, but could recover a rally. As it is, he lost rallies he controlled.

Brett Phillips this week takling Ash Barty saying Kyrgios > Tomic. Not for me, I loved Tomic playing a chess-quash, and I talk for Foster Wallace, who mimics my sentiment. Geometry -> parquet -> chess -> squash
 

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