Roger Federer is not the GOAT

Catters 070911

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I wondering how many here view Pete Sampras's legacy?

I get the feeling that him never winning a French Open tarnishes his record, so he is not talked about as a great as much as Federer, Nadal, Djokovic, Bjorg etc.

Yet he won his first Grand Slam at 19, and won his last in his last match, so he was winning Grand Slams his entire career.

He has gone to fourth on the Grand Slam records, but beat a record which stood for forty years previously.

I always remember at the Australian Open, where he played Jim Courier. Courier was two sets up, and during the change of ends, Sampras sat in his chair and starting bawling. People wondered why. He had found out that his coach, who had been like a father to him, was dying from cancer, and Sampras wept. Everyone was shocked with the usually stoic Sampras showing such raw emotion. He continued to play the match, wiping away tears as he served, and came from behind to win the next three sets and the match.

I think that Sampras isn't at the front of everyone's thoughts because he didn't put himself out there publicly like Agassi did, he was seen as being a bit robotic and boring, and he didn't win at Roland Garros (Yet Lendl gets a lot of accolades, and he never won Wimbledon).


So, where do you rate Pete Sampras in this conversation?
 

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eaglespremiers

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I wondering how many here view Pete Sampras's legacy?

I get the feeling that him never winning a French Open tarnishes his record, so he is not talked about as a great as much as Federer, Nadal, Djokovic, Bjorg etc.

Yet he won his first Grand Slam at 19, and won his last in his last match, so he was winning Grand Slams his entire career.

He has gone to fourth on the Grand Slam records, but beat a record which stood for forty years previously.

I always remember at the Australian Open, where he played Jim Courier. Courier was two sets up, and during the change of ends, Sampras sat in his chair and starting bawling. People wondered why. He had found out that his coach, who had been like a father to him, was dying from cancer, and Sampras wept. Everyone was shocked with the usually stoic Sampras showing such raw emotion. He continued to play the match, wiping away tears as he served, and came from behind to win the next three sets and the match.

I think that Sampras isn't at the front of everyone's thoughts because he didn't put himself out there publicly like Agassi did, he was seen as being a bit robotic and boring, and he didn't win at Roland Garros (Yet Lendl gets a lot of accolades, and he never won Wimbledon).


So, where do you rate Pete Sampras in this conversation?
About 4th.
 

juss

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Federer/Nadal/Djokovic are the best 3 of all time.

Regardless of who you have first, these 3 are the only ones who have had to compete with the next best 2 of all time.

If any of them existed in this era on their own away from the other 2, they'd be sitting on 30+ slams.
 

pepsi

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Federer/Nadal/Djokovic are the best 3 of all time.

If any of them existed in this era on their own away from the other 2, they'd be sitting on 30+ slams.
In my 34 odd years definitely. But what they have done is forced each other 2 get better and continually improve. They've pushed each other to continue to aim to be the best. If it was only Federer for example, and he had 18 slams, 4 ahead of Sampras, would he still be going? I'm not sure. Same for the other 2 if they were the clear slam leader and nobody chasing their tails.

Regardless, these 3 are legends of the sport.
 

blackcat

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re:Djoker🇷🇸

if nothing else, best ever defender, by a ways.​
Monfils inspector gadget lenght, sans the ballistic element, but with working ligaments and tendons. His defense up there with Rudolph Nureyev gestalt Floyd Mayweather. He puts enough work into his footwork to ben ensemble member of the St Petersberg national ballet.​
I am not underselling him, just talking up he athleticism.​
 
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Forward Press

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It's a bit puzzling how a close 5 set epic where both had opportunities to put the game away is classified as a choke.

He's still very much in the conversation for GOAT depending on how Nadal and Djokovic go for the rest of their careers.
 

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jod23

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He probably should have won. Up 40-15 on his serve. Two championship points. All he needed was one big serve but he let Djoker back in. Shame. Had he won at 37 beating Nadal and Djokovic back to back. Insane.

He's still the GOAT for me simply for the fact he's actually better at tennis than the other two. The three have different styles but Federer is what you would show an alien as to how tennis is and should be played.
 

Redline

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I don't think Federer can win another Grand Slam, I think Djokovic can over take him on Grand Slam wins. Nadal might, I thought he was finished a few years back but may get a couple more.
 

FreoRicci

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It was such a mentally and emotionally draining game. Was unusual from
Federer. Normally used to him being calm and polished but 40-15 up, could see him tense up and his wife was even more. Djokovic just did not die.
For me the GOAT talk is sullied somewhat in that Djokovic is still having to fight, tooth and nail, to prove he’s in the conversation with casual viewers. Has been all his career. Never the player to be cheered on, as indicated by his celebration when he won. I had to check whether it was a final, because he just won the point, went to shake Federer’s hand and that’s it.
Djoker 100% deserves more respect. Feel like Fed just got a ride through his first 10 slams winning against Roddicks, Hewitts, Safins. For some reason people love him for that. That he stood out significantly above in his era. Djokovic won his first grand slam at 19 in 2008. Beat a prime Federer in the semis enroute. Detailed the chink in Federer’s game. Fed won 8 of his majors after that, whereas Djokovic has won 15 since. Nadal 15 also. So if you look at the time Nadal and Djokovic came into the sense, the both have nearly doubled the haul that Federer had in that time.
 

bullish23

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He's still the GOAT for me simply for the fact he's actually better at tennis than the other two. The three have different styles but Federer is what you would show an alien as to how tennis is and should be played.
Despite the head to heads indicating the complete opposite. Where is the flat earth society meeting this week?
 

bato

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I love how it's changed from: "Novak will never overtake Rafa or Roger!"

to...

"Novak will never be the greatest even if he has more slams!"

Ahh, tennis fans.
 

LukeParkerno1

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I love how it's changed from: "Novak will never overtake Rafa or Roger!"

to...

"Novak will never be the greatest even if he has more slams!"

Ahh, tennis fans...
Just wonder though (and this comes from a Novak fan) how much those two Slams he flopped to Murray will hurt. He would be almost at Fed's total by the end of the year.
 

greatwhiteshark

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Just wonder though (and this comes from a Novak fan) how much those two Slams he flopped to Murray will hurt. He would be almost at Fed's total by the end of the year.
Could say the same for Fed and for Nadal, they have all lost slam finals that they may regret in hindsight but that’s just sport.
All 3 of these blokes are superstars, records are broken all the time in sport. Fed holds it now, Djokovic May hold it in a couple of years, he may not. Someone will break it in the future possibly.
Until Federer record is broken he is the GOAT in my opinion, but seriously there is little between all 3 of these guys.
 

LukeParkerno1

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Could say the same for Fed and for Nadal, they have all lost slam finals that they may regret in hindsight but that’s just sport.
All 3 of these blokes are superstars, records are broken all the time in sport. Fed holds it now, Djokovic May hold it in a couple of years, he may not. Someone will break it in the future possibly.
Until Federer record is broken he is the GOAT in my opinion, but seriously there is little between all 3 of these guys.
Whoever eventually gets it out of these 3, I doubt we will see that beaten in our lifetime. It's hard enough to win multiple ones, let alone 20.
 

The_Eagles

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Federers press conference sorta softening us for the possibility now that Rafa and Djoker may overtake him. Paraphrase: I don't play for the record necessarily, records are meant to be broken etc. Philosophical. He probably will have the Wimbledon record for eons. He can hang his hat on the 'most prestigious, OG' slam, but if Novak overhauls him he doesn't really have a case for GOAT.
Analogy time: Ablett the most miraculous, spectacular, graceful, brutish player of all time. But Carey clinical, clutch, kingly and still spectacular in his own right. Leigh Matthews 900 goals from the midfield-forward. They're hard to split!
 

jod23

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It was such a mentally and emotionally draining game. Was unusual from
Federer. Normally used to him being calm and polished but 40-15 up, could see him tense up and his wife was even more. Djokovic just did not die.
For me the GOAT talk is sullied somewhat in that Djokovic is still having to fight, tooth and nail, to prove he’s in the conversation with casual viewers. Has been all his career. Never the player to be cheered on, as indicated by his celebration when he won. I had to check whether it was a final, because he just won the point, went to shake Federer’s hand and that’s it.
Djoker 100% deserves more respect. Feel like Fed just got a ride through his first 10 slams winning against Roddicks, Hewitts, Safins. For some reason people love him for that. That he stood out significantly above in his era. Djokovic won his first grand slam at 19 in 2008. Beat a prime Federer in the semis enroute. Detailed the chink in Federer’s game. Fed won 8 of his majors after that, whereas Djokovic has won 15 since. Nadal 15 also. So if you look at the time Nadal and Djokovic came into the sense, the both have nearly doubled the haul that Federer had in that time.
But Federer is much older? If anything Djokovic just needs to beat an old Fed and an old Nadal to win pretty much every major because mens tennis is trash outside those two. So all he has to do is beat two men past their prime to win as many slams as he wants.
 

Jack Gun Cyril Stun

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He probably should have won. Up 40-15 on his serve. Two championship points. All he needed was one big serve but he let Djoker back in. Shame. Had he won at 37 beating Nadal and Djokovic back to back. Insane.

He's still the GOAT for me simply for the fact he's actually better at tennis than the other two. The three have different styles but Federer is what you would show an alien as to how tennis is and should be played.
Well not anymore, Fed has admitted himself he would teach his kids to play with a double handed backhand. He’s seen the advantage of it time and again v Novak and Rafa in today’s game and conditions.

But I get what you’re saying, his general technique, footwork, balance, slice, volleys, variety of shot etc is the best classic repertoire we’ve / I’ve ever seen.

And it’s ironic for me that Wimbledon has been the death of the volleyor and dulled Feds dominance there. Had they not slowed down the court speed and balls, Fed wins 10 minimum, I’m not sure Rafa would have won any and imho Novak wouldn’t have 5 wins there.

But it is a crazy era when you have the king of clay, hardcourt (Novak > fed for me) and grass all playing at one time.
 

jod23

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Despite the head to heads indicating the complete opposite. Where is the flat earth society meeting this week?
They both caught Fed on the way down. He's 5 years older than Nadal and what 7 older than Novak?

If you watch tennis. The eye test will tell you that Federer is clearly the superior tennis player.
 
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