Roger Federer is not the GOAT

[Flameboy]

Tennis is played with a racquet. If you’re the classiest with the racquet then you are the most talented. How can’t you be? Being faster or more powerful isn’t

Let me preempt SJ's response for you:

Tennis is played with a racquet? No s**t, we get it. What other revelations have you got for me?

Again, how do you define "class"? Who made you the arbiter on what is and isn't "class"? Talent can be a number of things. Even Siri would know that.

 

[Madtiger2006]

Let me preempt SJ's response for you:

Tennis is played with a racquet? No s**t, we get it. What other revelations have you got for me?

Again, how do you define "class"? Who made you the arbiter on what is and isn't "class"? Talent can be a number of things. Even Siri would know that.

Righto. So he’s not the classiest player going around? Good luck with that one lol

 

[Sweet Jesus]

Tennis is played with a racquet. If you’re the classiest with the racquet then you are the most talented.

You should coach kids and explain to them that they need to be "classy with the racquet". I'm sure they'd come to dominate as a result.

I look forward to your analysis of cricket's greatest batsmen. No need to consider technique, reflexes, temperament, footwork, shot selection - or even volume of runs. Just tell us, who was "the classiest with the bat"? I'm sure it will be equally insightful.

So he’s not the classiest player going around?

As has been explained to you already, to boil Federer's quality down to being "classy" is absurdly reductive and ultimately hollow. It doesn't mean anything.

You might as well just say he's "skillful". That would actually be less banal.

Your explanation of what made these players great is as one-dimensional and devoid of nuance as a Mr Men book. There's Mr Classy, Mr Grunty and Mr Powerful. It's not very illuminating.

 

[Elite Master]

Is it? Maybe by people who can't even identify what they're watching.

No it is underrated. Even some of the best commentators and tennis annalists rarely mention Federer's heavy hitting, instead the focus is on his class of shot making, and "hitting the spots".

 

[Sweet Jesus]

No it is underrated.

If you say so. I'd say he's pretty obviously a kick-arse power player. It's not some big mystery. You'd think after 20 major titles, people have had enough time to get their heads around it.

Even some of the best commentators and tennis annalists rarely mention Federer's heavy hitting, instead the focus is on his class of shot making, and "hitting the spots".

I don't know who you're talking about. That said, it's no surprise that his shot-making has drawn praise over the years. But as we've seen in this thread, anyone who bangs on about his "class" exclusively probably doesn't have the vocabulary or insight to do much more.

 

[Madtiger2006]

You should coach kids and explain to them that they need to be "classy with the racquet". I'm sure they'd come to dominate as a result.

I look forward to your analysis of cricket's greatest batsmen. No need to consider technique, reflexes, temperament, footwork, shot selection - or even volume of runs. Just tell us, who was "the classiest with the bat"? I'm sure it will be equally insightful.

As has been explained to you already, to boil Federer's quality down to being "classy" is absurdly reductive and ultimately hollow. It doesn't mean anything.

You might as well just say he's "skillful". That would actually be less banal.

Your explanation of what made these players great is as one-dimensional and devoid of nuance as a Mr Men book. There's Mr Classy, Mr Grunty and Mr Powerful. It's not very illuminating.

Don’t ask me a question if you don’t like the answers

 

[Sweet Jesus]

Don’t ask me a question if you don’t like the answers

Is that another of your magic rules?

What's your favourite food? What dish do you consider "classiest with the fork"?

 

[Madtiger2006]

Is that another of your magic rules?

What's your favourite food? What dish do you consider "classiest with the fork"?

If I say Malaysian, you will say ‘why limit yourself to Malaysian’

 

[Sweet Jesus]

If I say Malaysian, you will say ‘why limit yourself to Malaysian’

Why would I say that?

Maybe you should concentrate on stringing a single coherent sentence together before trying to anticipate how a more clear thinker might respond.

Tell me which food is "classiest with the fork". Or does that actually not mean anything intelligible? A bit like bleating about a player being "classiest with the racquet".

 

[Madtiger2006]

Why would I say that?

Maybe you should concentrate on stringing a single coherent sentence together before trying to anticipate how a more clear thinker might respond.

Tell me which food is "classiest with the fork". Or does that actually not mean anything intelligible? A bit like bleating about a player being "classiest with the racquet".

Were you born a knob or did you become one over time? You’d try and convince someone that a midget was taller than a giraffe

 

[Sweet Jesus]

Were you born a knob or did you become one over time?

Because I asked you which dish was "classiest with the fork"?

You’d try and convince someone that a midget was taller than a giraffe

Why would I do that? More incoherence.

 

[Lethality]

Well part of it is relevant for the debate imho. Happy for Fed to be considered GOAT, but it’s just odd that 2 other all time greats and his 2 biggest rivals have the edge over him head to head, esp at Grand Slams (even after taking out Rafas French Open dominance)

His head to head deficit owes to meeting Rafa on clay too often, because he's the 2nd best clay player at his best, and so usually meets Rafa in opens or tour matches which are on clay.

Rafa isn't the 2nd best hard court player or grass player most of the time, so they haven't met as often on that surface.

 

[Jack Gun Cyril Stun]

His head to head deficit owes to meeting Rafa on clay too often, because he's the 2nd best clay player at his best, and so usually meets Rafa in opens or tour matches which are on clay.

Rafa isn't the 2nd best hard court player or grass player most of the time, so they haven't met as often on that surface.

Realise that but I was referring to Rafa 4-3 ahead from Aus/ Wimbledon matches

 

[Madtiger2006]

Because I asked you which dish was "classiest with the fork"?

Why would I do that? More incoherence.

Food isn’t living so it’s not classy. 1 line answers is all you need. As if you wouldn’t try and start an argument and try and convince a midget is taller than a giraffe. It’s what knobs do

 

[Flameboy]

Realise that but I was referring to Rafa 4-3 ahead from Aus/ Wimbledon matches

People forget how good Rafa was on grass circa 06-11.

Federer - achieved very little on clay the last few years but it seems to go unnoticed, 'oh he's the second best player on that surface anyway'. Rafa having done nothing at Wimbledon these last few years almost seems to have made people forget what he did achieve. 5 consecutive finals, 2 victories including 1 over the great goat himself. It's more than what Fed has done at the French.

 

[Sweet Jesus]

Food isn’t living so it’s not classy.

Another magic rule?

I didn't realise that only living things could be considered "classy", but there you go.

As if you wouldn’t try and start an argument and try and convince a midget is taller than a giraffe. It’s what knobs do

You're the one who suggested it, whereas I've said nothing of the sort. That's pretty telling.

Tell me more about how Federer's greatness boils down to him being "classy with the racquet". That blew my mind the first time you wheeled it out.

 

[Madtiger2006]

Another magic rule?

I didn't realise that only living things could be considered "classy", but there you go.

You're the one who suggested it, whereas I've said nothing of the sort. That's pretty telling.

Tell me more about how Federer's greatness boils down to him being "classy with the racquet". That blew my mind the first time you wheeled it out.

Well you are the clown arguing he isn’t the best. You wanted to know how he was the most talented. Stupid question really. What answer would you expect? DC

 

[Sweet Jesus]

Well you are the clown arguing he isn’t the best.

Where did I say that?

You wanted to know how he was the most talented.

Actually, I wanted to point out that it was a useless assessment. How would you make the case that Federer is more "talented" than, for example, Borg?

Because he's "classy with the racquet"? It's just a series of absurdities.

Stupid question really. What answer would you expect? DC

I expected to demonstrate the meaningless of your comment and the know-nothing banality of your focus on "talent" and "class". Mission accomplished.

 

[Xtreme]

A new GOAT will emerge. It was almost Tom Brady but he literally let the Superbowl slip through his fingertips.

It might be Hodgey winning yet another Norm Smith medal while helping the Lions win the 2018 premiership.

 

[Sweet Jesus]

It was almost Tom Brady but he literally let the Superbowl slip through his fingertips.

Literally?

 

[Xtreme]

Literally?

Yes LITERALLY

 

[Brad Goodman]

He must be used to tossing around footballs rather than trophies.

 

[Madtiger2006]

Let me preempt SJ's response for you:

Tennis is played with a racquet? No s**t, we get it. What other revelations have you got for me?

Again, how do you define "class"? Who made you the arbiter on what is and isn't "class"? Talent can be a number of things. Even Siri would know that.

Gee if you don't know what I'm talking about then don't bother

 

[Hippster]

May have been mentioned..
Federers efforts to make FO finals were pretty good. It’s not his best surface. If he had bowed out earlier and not chalked up all those losses to Nadal in finals, then his record in GS’s against him would look better.
Not sure if this is overly relevant or not, but thinking it does highlight Feds greatness.

 

[rog1995]

May have been mentioned..
Federers efforts to make FO finals were pretty good. It’s not his best surface. If he had bowed out earlier and not chalked up all those losses to Nadal in finals, then his record in GS’s against him would look better.
Not sure if this is overly relevant or not, but thinking it does highlight Feds greatness.

Take out nadals French open titles he only has 6 grand slams