Rolling All Australian Team 2020

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danster168

All Australian
Apr 29, 2016
804
609
AFL Club
Melbourne
I wouldn't, I would take Gaff anyway in that position and it's not even close really.
I personally disagree specifically with Gaff. He is a seagull like Jake Lloyd. He does nothing with his possessions and he doesn't break the lines at all. He is also weak defensively. I think he is just in an era that rewards players with a lot of stats. I mean how many times in a match does he get the ball in the back flank and kick it 15 sideways.
 

LukeParkerno1

Premium Platinum
Sep 23, 2005
116,658
45,608
Sydney
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I personally disagree specifically with Gaff. He is a seagull like Jake Lloyd. He does nothing with his possessions and he doesn't break the lines at all. He is also weak defensively. I think he is just in an era that rewards players with a lot of stats. I mean how many times in a match does he get the ball in the back flank and kick it 15 sideways.
Gut running is hugely important. Look at the real top sides, they all have the best gut running wingers and i's no coincidence there really. Geelong have their two, Brisbane have McCluggage, etc
 

PowerForGood

2020. The year the competition became terminal. Ju
Sep 1, 2006
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You deliberately were misleading with those figures.

Richmond's first 4 games were against other Vic teams with no crowds, literally a neutral game at a neutral venue.
Port has played 6 genuine home games with crowds.
Did you do the research on travel then as well?
 

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Flags_In_The_Bag

Premiership Player
Aug 17, 2014
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Not a fan of overseas teams.....
this will be the side FWIW

Grimes Balta Baker

Whitfield Valustin Jonas

Wines T.Kelly Neale

De Goey Hawkins Martin

Wallis T.Lynch Butters

Rucks: Natanui Petracca S.Bolton

Inter: Dangerfield Boak Bontempelli T.Greene

edit late change: out Hill In Petracca
Ohh ffs lol
 

Richo83

Brownlow Medallist
Oct 2, 2005
19,562
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Because it doesn't show how effective the actual back line is. Calculate the percentage of goals a team concedes per inside 50's, that's far more effective.
Opposition goals per inside 50 (opposition goals/opposition inside 50 x 100)
1stFremantle
17.7253​
2ndSydney
18.9907​
3rdWest Coast
19.4864​
4thGold Coast
19.697​
5thGeelong
19.7368​
6thRichmond
19.9005​
7thGreater Western Sydney
20.2035​
8thPort Adelaide
20.7972​
9thBrisbane
20.4437​
10thMelbourne
21.0608​
11thCollingwood
21.5168​
12thSt Kilda
21.9937​
13thWestern Bulldogs
22.4138​
14thNorth Melbourne
22.4828​
15thCarlton
22.6852​
16thEssendon
23.2759​
17thHawthorn
24.3086​
18thAdelaide
24.3502​

To me there's too much noise in this list to really mean anything. Team defending makes it hard to isolate players, and it's clear that rain, fixturing, game style and the like will cause too much variance. Fremantle are 17th for inside 50s yet are 6th for disposals and it's clear that they play a safe gameplan which doesn't result in heavy scores against.
 

Underarm

Norm Smith Medallist
Feb 13, 2011
8,882
10,654
AFL Club
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Opposition goals per inside 50 (opposition goals/opposition inside 50 x 100)
1stFremantle
17.7253​
2ndSydney
18.9907​
3rdWest Coast
19.4864​
4thGold Coast
19.697​
5thGeelong
19.7368​
6thRichmond
19.9005​
7thGreater Western Sydney
20.2035​
8thPort Adelaide
20.7972​
9thBrisbane
20.4437​
10thMelbourne
21.0608​
11thCollingwood
21.5168​
12thSt Kilda
21.9937​
13thWestern Bulldogs
22.4138​
14thNorth Melbourne
22.4828​
15thCarlton
22.6852​
16thEssendon
23.2759​
17thHawthorn
24.3086​
18thAdelaide
24.3502​

To me there's too much noise in this list to really mean anything. Team defending makes it hard to isolate players, and it's clear that rain, fixturing, game style and the like will cause too much variance. Fremantle are 17th for inside 50s yet are 6th for disposals and it's clear that they play a safe gameplan which doesn't result in heavy scores against.
The best defences stop the ball just outside the 50 as well and turn it into attack. After watching the Sydney/Fremantle v Richmond games this year its no surprise why they do well in this statistic.
 

eth-dog

Premium Gold
Jan 11, 2007
85,907
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Melbourne
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Essendon
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Opposition goals per inside 50 (opposition goals/opposition inside 50 x 100)
1stFremantle
17.7253​
2ndSydney
18.9907​
3rdWest Coast
19.4864​
4thGold Coast
19.697​
5thGeelong
19.7368​
6thRichmond
19.9005​
7thGreater Western Sydney
20.2035​
8thPort Adelaide
20.7972​
9thBrisbane
20.4437​
10thMelbourne
21.0608​
11thCollingwood
21.5168​
12thSt Kilda
21.9937​
13thWestern Bulldogs
22.4138​
14thNorth Melbourne
22.4828​
15thCarlton
22.6852​
16thEssendon
23.2759​
17thHawthorn
24.3086​
18thAdelaide
24.3502​

To me there's too much noise in this list to really mean anything. Team defending makes it hard to isolate players, and it's clear that rain, fixturing, game style and the like will cause too much variance. Fremantle are 17th for inside 50s yet are 6th for disposals and it's clear that they play a safe gameplan which doesn't result in heavy scores against.
Yeah it isn't a perfect measure by any means but it's a better metric than points against IMO and us mugs don't get access to the advanced stats that the clubs and Fox do so we have to make do with what we've got.
 

Guardian Hawk

Premiership Player
Oct 16, 2003
3,089
3,974
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Hawthorn
Bit of a random quote?

The post you quoted was from more than 6 weeks ago. Since then, Sicily has done his knee and is no longer in contention. Also, the stats I highlighted were accurate at the time. Since then, Sicily was sent forward a bit more and then was injured, affecting his average intercepts, etc.

Also, the comparison to Haynes is a compliment as he was used as the measuring stick in the competition for the role. Sicily had a great and comparable season to that point. Unfortunately, injury has yet again removed the possibility of AA. I think Haynes deserves the nod in that role (Luke Ryan the other big shout but both could fit, Ridley and perhaps Stewart in the squad).
 

theyellowsash

Brownlow Medallist
Feb 9, 2009
10,441
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Yeah it isn't a perfect measure by any means but it's a better metric than points against IMO and us mugs don't get access to the advanced stats that the clubs and Fox do so we have to make do with what we've got.
at the same time though, when teams put 14 men in the backline its going to raise that stat, but not necessarily be indicative that their actual defensive unit is better. id rather use defensive 50 intercepts than this stat, because that at least judges how good a team was at actually intercepting or stopping an attack directly, rather than just flooding so that noone has any space making it more likely that the defenders can get a scrappy kick out thats going to come straight back in.

using stats to evaluate a teams defense is probably the hardest thing to do. id still lean towards just total points conceded. in the end it doesnt matter how a team defends, its all about stopping the team scoring. using only inside 50 stats ignores all the upfield defensive work as well.
 

Guardian Hawk

Premiership Player
Oct 16, 2003
3,089
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Any Port defender of Jonas, DBJ or McKenzie and Butters

When you are top all season and only Boak is a lock with Dixon a 50/50 the 40 will get some imo.
I agree with the point you are making regarding Port players but he asked "which players have got no discussion in this thread" and the likes of Jonas and DBJ have appeared on nearly every one of the 140 odd pages (rightfully so).
 

Richo83

Brownlow Medallist
Oct 2, 2005
19,562
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Melbourne
AFL Club
Richmond
The best defences stop the ball just outside the 50 as well and turn it into attack. After watching the Sydney/Fremantle v Richmond games this year its no surprise why they do well in this statistic.
Yes and a lot of defending doesn't happen in the defensive 50. When sides are coming out of their backline and the forwards are pressuring to get the ball, they are, in a way, defending, trying to stop goals and create them.

Yeah it isn't a perfect measure by any means but it's a better metric than points against IMO and us mugs don't get access to the advanced stats that the clubs and Fox do so we have to make do with what we've got.
It's better than points against but it's still a flawed measure and I say this as a fan of one of the top ranked sides for the stat. For instance, some good teams like to pressure high up the ground. If you can get it past that, they're relatively easy to score against. It's just that it's hard to get it inside 50 because of the high pressure up the ground in the first place.

This is why the selection panel has to factor in things like the individual roles of players, what the gamestyle is etc. Fremantle don't have an attacking gamestyle, again, evident by the fact that they're 17th for inside 50s and 15th for goals per game. This means they don't throw men ahead of the ball as much or spring players forward as quickly. Sydney have also been a very cautious side with the football and have sometimes flooded the backline. This is why I'm sceptical of the idea of putting in swans and dockers players in the team purely based off this stat.
 

eth-dog

Premium Gold
Jan 11, 2007
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Yes and a lot of defending doesn't happen in the defensive 50. When sides are coming out of their backline and the forwards are pressuring to get the ball, they are, in a way, defending, trying to stop goals and create them.



It's better than points against but it's still a flawed measure and I say this as a fan of one of the top ranked sides for the stat. For instance, some good teams like to pressure high up the ground. If you can get it past that, they're relatively easy to score against. It's just that it's hard to get it inside 50 because of the high pressure up the ground in the first place.

This is why the selection panel has to factor in things like the individual roles of players, what the gamestyle is etc. Fremantle don't have an attacking gamestyle, again, evident by the fact that they're 17th for inside 50s and 15th for goals per game. This means they don't throw men ahead of the ball as much or spring players forward as quickly. Sydney have also been a very cautious side with the football and have sometimes flooded the backline. This is why I'm sceptical of the idea of putting in swans and dockers players in the team purely based off this stat.
I don't want to use it to justify player x or y for AA. I just think it's a better measure overall to measure how well a back line works over PA which seems to pop up in here every year to measure how well a back 6 goes.
 

Guardian Hawk

Premiership Player
Oct 16, 2003
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Which players will have got no discussion in this thread and then will appear in the 40 man squad?
I think we are usually pretty across it - it is unusual for a squad player to come completely out of nowhere and I think with the 60 odd names regularly thrown up in this thread, we are likely to have the 40 man squad covered.

The only player with an outside chance at the squad from my side (who has had little to no discussion in this thread that I have seen) is Jack Gunston.

Hawthorn have been one of the most (if not the most) inefficient sides going forward in the comp. Our entries are slow and usually terrible. We have no key forwards with Lewis injured and horribly out of form, Patton constantly injured and O'Brien dropping everything.

Gunston, as usual, has had to play all over the ground but when playing forward, is usually double teamed given the above form of our key forwards.

Despite this, he sits 6th in the Coleman (and has missed a game). The goals he has kicked have often come whilst double teamed, outside 50 and/or hard up on the boundary. He has also been very good distributor, with smart ball use and clever tap ons, etc and also rates elite for pressure.

Been pretty classy amongst a fair amount of rubbish.
 

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Suma Magic

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 22, 2009
22,662
24,316
AFL Club
West Coast
I think we are usually pretty across it - it is unusual for a squad player to come completely out of nowhere and I think with the 60 odd names regularly thrown up in this thread, we are likely to have the 40 man squad covered.

The only player with an outside chance at the squad from my side (who has had little to no discussion in this thread that I have seen) is Jack Gunston.

Hawthorn have been one of the most (if not the most) inefficient sides going forward in the comp. Our entries are slow and usually terrible. We have no key forwards with Lewis injured and horribly out of form, Patton constantly injured and O'Brien dropping everything.

Gunston, as usual, has had to play all over the ground but when playing forward, is usually double teamed given the above form of our key forwards.

Despite this, he sits 6th in the Coleman (and has missed a game). The goals he has kicked have often come whilst double teamed, outside 50 and/or hard up on the boundary. He has also been very good distributor, with smart ball use and clever tap ons, etc and also rates elite for pressure.

Been pretty classy amongst a fair amount of rubbish.
yeah good call. I’ve mentioned him a bit recently but I agree the thread has been a bit quiet on him.
 

BarbieITFC

Senior List
May 11, 2015
290
901
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We have struggled to score and have been more defensively orientated but I would also say the sheer amount of games we've played in the rain has exacerbated these stats.
Agree, but that said, Freo's team defence this year has been exceptional - every one of them has contributed. Clearly Ryan is the stand out, but jeez - you look at our BF Board and listen to the fan podcasts and you've got loads of people suggesting that Pearce and Hamling will struggle to get back in to the team given how well the likes of Hughes and Duman have been this year!!

I mean, they've been bloody good, but give any team in the comp of a choice between Alex Pearce and Ethan Hughes - who do you think they're going to choose.

Pearce (if he can stay injury free, and it's a big if) has the potential to be in the conversation for the best defender in our club's history, plus he's our most obvious next captain. Hamling is also a dead set gun, the only question mark about him will be his disposal is pretty average and it's clear JLo places a huge amount of value on ball retention.

The great news is that if Cox re-signs we have our defence sorted for the next 8-10 years. Ryan - Hamling - Logue across the back, Wilson - Pearce - Young across half back and Cox on the interchange. I'll stick my neck out and say that is hands down the best potential back seven in the comp - and certainly in Freo's history.
 

eth-dog

Premium Gold
Jan 11, 2007
85,907
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Update:

FB: Nick Haynes - Harris Andrews - Callum Wilkie
HB: Darcy Byrne-Jones - Robbie Tarrant - Adam Saad
MF: Travis Boak - Lachlan Neale - Hugh McCluggage
HF: Toby Greene - Tom Hawkins - Daniel Butler
FF: Charlie Cameron - Josh J Kennedy - Tom Papley
OB: Max Gawn - Christian Petracca - Scott Pendlebury
IC: Jack Steele - Taylor Adams - Jy Simpkin - Nic Naitanui

Squad:

Defenders: Darcy Moore, Jacob Weitering, Caleb Daniel, Jordan Ridley, Luke Ryan, Brayden Maynard
Midfielders: Elliott Yeo, Mitchell Duncan, Andrew Gaff, Patrick Dangerfield, Hugh Greenwood, Luke Parker, Jack Viney
Rucks: Todd Goldstein, Brodie Grundy
Forwards: Jack Gunston, Chad Wingard, Charlie Dixon
Team after round whatever the one that just finished:

FB: Haynes - Andrews - Maynard
HB: Daniel - Tarrant - Saad
MF: Duncan - Steele - Boak
HF: Butler - Hawkins - Cameron
FF: Papley - Dixon - Kennedy
OB: Gawn - Petracca - Neale
IC: Naitanui - T Adams - Byrne-Jones - L Weller

And a reserves, cos why not:

FB: Ridley - Weitering - Collins
HB: L Ryan - Moore - Rampe
MF: McCluggage - Dangerfield - Gaff
HF: Wallis - Taberner - Lyons
FF: J Cameron - B King - T Greene
OB: Goldstein - Macrae - McGrath
IC: Guthrie - Grundy - T Kelly - Sicily
With one round left:

FB: Nick Haynes - Harris Andrews - Luke Ryan
HB: Caleb Daniel - Steven May - Brayden Maynard
MF: Sam Menegola - Cameron Guthrie - Zachary Merrett
HF: Christian Petracca - Tom Hawkins (c) - Daniel Butler
FF: Mitchell Wallis - Josh J Kennedy - Charlie Dixon
OB: Nic Naitanui - Lachlan Neale - Jack Steele
IC: Taylor Adams - Patrick Dangerfield - Travis Boak - Darcy Byrne-Jones

And a reserves for the hell of it:

FB: Bradley Sheppard - Sam Collins - Tom Jonas
HB: Jordan Ridley - Jacob Weitering - Adam Saad
MF: Mitchell Duncan - Clayton Oliver - Hugh McCluggage
HF: Liam Ryan - Jack Darling - Charlie Cameron
FF: Tom Papley - Matt Taberner - Tom Lynch
OB: Max Gawn - Ollie Wines - Dustin Martin
IC: Nick Vlaustin - Jackson Macrae - Marcus Bontempelli - Jy Simpkin
Every page?

I haven't seen a single one with them in the 22, and overwhelmingly that's all that's listed here
There's three with Byrne-Jones in it. So, um, yeah.
 

Guardian Hawk

Premiership Player
Oct 16, 2003
3,089
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Every page?

I haven't seen a single one with them in the 22, and overwhelmingly that's all that's listed here
Perhaps an exaggeration but I just did a search of "DBJ" for this thread and got more than 5 pages worth of results (and that only includes when it is written in that exact format). Certainly been in the discussion.
 

PAFC_1870

Brownlow Medallist
Feb 21, 2009
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There's three with Byrne-Jones in it. So, um, yeah.
All... from.... you :)

Relax, he's not getting the love that he could have. Glad some notice.

Noticed you put the guy whose 2nd in the Coach's award all season on the IC too..... not happy!
 

eaglespremiers

BigFooty Forger
Jun 24, 2009
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Yep, don't think Kennedy makes it.
Naitanui is a certainty. Sheppard and Ryan are worthy but there is a line of contenders for both their positions.
Darling has overtaken Kennedy because of his goal assists and contested marking (but I don't think he makes the team).
Excluding injury Gaff has probably been our fourth or fifth best midfielder. Only gets a look in because he "may" be the best outside runner in the game.

Bottom line:
Would be perfectly happy just to have Naitanui in the team.
Would be thrilled if Ryan made it as well.
 

lumpinee

MK ULTRA
Jul 18, 2019
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I was trying to work out what was wrong with this selection. Something seems slightly delusional. I think it might be the selection of Hill, given he didn't start to perform until Round 12. Yes, that must be it...
ended Caddys career forever as a midfilder in rd 4 when BOG...in fact Caddy hasnt recovered from the lesson he got but Richmond learnt a lot of that revelation. so much so that weve been on the march ever since save for the 1st n last quaters of the port game some 6 weeks ago
 

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