Analysis Rolling All-Australian team for 2021

[Virgin Dog]

Really? So, Dixon who leads with 2.68 a game is what?

4x the rate of Cripps - not sure what point you were trying to make there. An average below 1 (or even let's say 0.8) is basically irrelevant

 

[WallyStringhaus]

2020 AA team - 4 players from bottom 10 teams.

2019 AA team - 4 players from bottom 10 teams.

2018 AA team - 4 players from bottom 10 teams.

For all the talk of Parish, Merrett, Stringer, Walsh, McKay, Weitering, Steele, Miller, Greene, etc. The likelihood is that the overwhelming majority of the team will come from the Top 8 sides, as it should.

Guys like Macrae and Guthrie are having better seasons than last year when both were AA.

For me the big boys from Top 4 teams are the starting on ball division. Bont, Oliver and Wines.

 

[calman]

Yep the wing is such a specialist position, those mids may be better players than Amon, menegola and Langdon, but put them on a wing in a real game and the likes of McCrae, Parrish etc would get beaten by Amon etc

Sam Walsh would still be on a wing over amon, as his workrate is that of a wingman anyway

 

[Ricky Vaughn]

When was the last time a team made the 8 and didnt have one player in the AA side? That's an honest question because I have no idea.

Freo could sneak into the 8 and I dont think anyone has us with anyone in there (though Darcy, Brayshaw and Mundy should be locks for the squad at least)

Essendon 2019. None in the squad also.

 

[baby pluto]

That may be so (re votes in losses), but the fact is that you're comparing a ruckman in the third placed side that's averaging:
- More disposals, and a higher disposal efficiency
- More hitouts
- More than triple the amount of marks (contested and uncontested)
- Five times the amount of goals
- Nearly three times the amount of intercepts (combine the last two points and see: work rate)
- More score involvements

Vs the ruckman in a team that's teetering on the edge of the eight.

Naitanui averages more clearances, sure. But Gawn has him covered in just about every other key stat, while contributing to a premiership push.

**** those are some cherry picked stats right there .

For some similarly cherry picked stats Naitanui has:

-More hitouts to advantage
-Higher percentage of score involvements to total scores
-More score launches
- double the clearances
-More tackles
- less turnovers
- less Clangers
- More contested possessions
- More games polling coaches votes
- More coaches votes

Vs

A ruckman that is being carried by Oliver and Petracca.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Essendon 2019. None in the squad also.

Wait really, they didnt even have one in the squad?

 

[Ricky Vaughn]

Wait really, they didnt even have one in the squad?

Apparently, though how trustworthy is Wikipedia really? I could just edit Martin Gleeson into the team.

 

[eth-dog]

Wait really, they didnt even have one in the squad?

Nope. Saad was robbed

 

[Scythe]

fu** those are some cherry picked stats right there .

For some similarly cherry picked stats Naitanui has:

-More hitouts to advantage
-Higher percentage of score involvements to total scores
-More score launches
- double the clearances
-More tackles
- less turnovers
- less Clangers
- More contested possessions
- More games polling coaches votes
- More coaches votes

Vs

A ruckman that is being carried by Oliver and Petracca.

I can't believe I'm wasting time on this, but 'less turnovers and clangers' are hardly a sound argument when you're going in to bat for a player who gets far less of the ball and goes at a lower disposal efficiency, lol.

And higher percentage of score involvements to total scores? So you're arguing that it's a win for Naitanui kicking one-fifth of the goals that Gawn has?

 

[baby pluto]

I can't believe I'm wasting time on this, but 'less turnovers and clangers' are hardly a sound argument when you're going in to bat for a player who gets far less of the ball and goes at a lower disposal efficiency, lol.

And higher percentage of score involvements to total scores? So you're arguing that it's a win for Naitanui kicking one-fifth of the goals that Gawn has?

I’m arguing it’s a win the score involvements is even close considering Melbourne has had about 60 more scores this season.

The lower disposal efficiency can be easily explained by the fact the majority of the ball Naitanui gets is contested while the opposite is true for Gawn. In fact its embarrassing that it is as close as it is.

 

[Scythe]

I’m arguing it’s a win the score involvements is even close considering Melbourne has had about 60 more scores this season.

The lower disposal efficiency can be easily explained by the fact the majority of the ball Naitanui gets is contested while the opposite is true for Gawn. In fact its embarrassing that it is as close as it is.

What's 'embarrassing' is that Naitanui is going at 62% despite 53% of his possessions being handballs. Gawn has a higher DE% despite kicking the ball 68% of the time.

Anyway, I don't want to sound like I'm cutting down Naitanui as a player. He's one of the better rucks of the last 10-15 years, but to argue that he's been clearly better than Gawn this year is demonstrably false.

 

[LittleG]

What's 'embarrassing' is that Naitanui is going at 62% despite 53% of his possessions being handballs. Gawn has a higher DE% despite kicking the ball 68% of the time.

Anyway, I don't want to sound like I'm cutting down Naitanui as a player. He's one of the better rucks of the last 10-15 years, but to argue that he's been clearly better than Gawn this year is demonstrably false.

You are arguing with a guy who thinks the Eagles have the best 22 this year. It really doesn’t matter what you say.

 

[Mikevk123]

B J.Lever J.Weitering B.Dale
HB T.Stewart S.May R.Laird
C S.Walsh C.Oliver J.Macrae
HF C.Petrecca T.Walker T.Greene
F T.Hawkins H.McKay T.Papley
FOLL: M.Gawn O.Wines M.Bontempelli
INTER: J.Steele, D.Parish, T.Miller, C.Mills


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Jcpdragonx]

Naitanui had 9 HOs to advantage vs Grundy's 4.
Naitanui had 10 clearances to Grundy's 4.
Naitanui had 10 contested possessions to Grundy's 7.
They both had the same amount of score involvements, inside 50s, intercept possessions and metres gained (173m).
Amazingly Naitanui actually had a goal assist (the Yeo goal from a HO to advantage), Grundy did not.
I will maintain I don't give two hoots about total marks. I don't value ruckmen as link up players. This is a tertiary role for them and doesn't make up if they are deficient and beaten in their primary role (as Grundy was today).

Tell me you're a WC fan arguing for NN AA without telling me your a WC fan arguing for NN AA

 

[eaglespremiers]

That may be so (re votes in losses), but the fact is that you're comparing a ruckman in the third placed side that's averaging:
- More disposals, and a higher disposal efficiency
- More hitouts
- More than triple the amount of marks (contested and uncontested)
- Five times the amount of goals
- Nearly three times the amount of intercepts (combine the last two points and see: work rate)
- More score involvements

Vs the ruckman in a team that's teetering on the edge of the eight.

Naitanui averages more clearances, sure. But Gawn has him covered in just about every other key stat, while contributing to a premiership push.

We'll just have to agree to disagree on key stats because you've listed a number that border on irrelevant.
Naitanui has a load more bounces and pressure acts than Gawn. Perhaps those should be factored in.

 

[Virgin Dog]

2020 AA team - 4 players from bottom 10 teams.

2019 AA team - 4 players from bottom 10 teams.

2018 AA team - 4 players from bottom 10 teams.

For all the talk of Parish, Merrett, Stringer, Walsh, McKay, Weitering, Steele, Miller, Greene, etc. The likelihood is that the overwhelming majority of the team will come from the Top 8 sides, as it should.

Guys like Macrae and Guthrie are having better seasons than last year when both were AA.

For me the big boys from Top 4 teams are the starting on ball division. Bont, Oliver and Wines.

That's a very good point you make tbh.

In 2012, Jack Riewoldt won the Coleman but didn't make the AA side. So it's not out of the question for McKay to miss out this year.

I rate Keath, May and Lever above Andrews and Weitering this season, but with Keath missing the final month of the season, assuming May and Lever make it, when forced to choose between the other two it looks almost certain that Andrews would make it ahead of Weitering.

When looking at the bottom 10 sides, I'd have to think 1-2 of Walsh, Steele and Miller will miss purely because of how tight the midfield spots are. Essendon have some reasonable chances this year between Parish, Merrett, Tippa and Stringer, but in reality they'll be lucky to get 1 of them in.

Ultimately, if you're picking 4 again, I think I'd have to go with Walsh, Greene, Miller and one of McKay or Walker as FF.

 

[danster168]

All things being equal, there's no excuse for Naitanui being so cr@p at marking. Gawn is 3rd in the league for contested marks, Naitanui is 70th! All of the other stats don't make up for this massive discrepancy. And then eagles have the audacity to say that marking isn't in his role. HAHA LOLZ

 

[Jcpdragonx]

B J.Lever J.Weitering B.Dale
HB T.Stewart S.May R.Laird
C S.Walsh C.Oliver J.Macrae
HF C.Petrecca T.Walker T.Greene
F T.Hawkins H.McKay T.Papley
FOLL: M.Gawn O.Wines M.Bontempelli
INTER: J.Steele, D.Parish, T.Miller, C.Mills


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

Laird hasnt played HB for 30 games bruv

 

[eth-dog]

That's a very good point you make tbh.

In 2012, Jack Riewoldt won the Coleman but didn't make the AA side. So it's not out of the question for McKay to miss out this year.

I rate Keath, May and Lever above Andrews and Weitering this season, but with Keath missing the final month of the season, assuming May and Lever make it, when forced to choose between the other two it looks almost certain that Andrews would make it ahead of Weitering.

When looking at the bottom 10 sides, I'd have to think 1-2 of Walsh, Steele and Miller will miss purely because of how tight the midfield spots are. Essendon have some reasonable chances this year between Parish, Merrett, Tippa and Stringer, but in reality they'll be lucky to get 1 of them in.

Ultimately, if you're picking 4 again, I think I'd have to go with Walsh, Greene, Miller and one of McKay or Walker as FF.

It also depends on where teams end up. Do GWS make the 8? If so Greene is a monty. I think this year we'll see more than the 4 bottom 10 representatices because there'll probably be no more than 2 games separating 7th from 12th

 

[Trav 20]

Melbourne supporters using coaches votes for Oliver arguments while discounting them for Nic Nat vs Gawn is hilarious.

Gawn's ahead.

 

[Scythe]

We'll just have to agree to disagree on key stats because you've listed a number that border on irrelevant.
Naitanui has a load more bounces and pressure acts than Gawn. Perhaps those should be factored in.

Disposals, goals, marks and score involvements? You're right, the most meaningless stats in football.

 

[eaglespremiers]

Tell me you're a WC fan arguing for NN AA without telling me your a WC fan arguing for NN AA

Thank you, I think.

All things being equal, there's no excuse for Naitanui being so cr@p at marking. Gawn is 3rd in the league for contested marks, Naitanui is 70th! All of the other stats don't make up for this massive discrepancy.

In fairness, Naitanui is about the middle of the pack for the ruckmen when it comes to contested marking and is better than other decent rucks (such as Hickey, Lycett, Pittonet, Ryder, Nankervis and Mumford). It's only Gawn's elite level at this stat that dwarfs all other ruckmen (and credit to him for that).
In any event, clearances are more important than contested marking (although contested marking is very valuable for a ruckman) and the disparity between clearances (+59 in Naitanui's favour) is far greater than contested marks (+30 in Gawn's favour).

 

[Scythe]

Updated AFLCA leaderboard. Would you look at that, can't even make that argument for Naitanui now despite Melbourne having two other players in the top 11.

 

[Scythe]

Interesting that Naitanui 'smashed' Grundy on the weekend according to some Eagles fans in the NN thread.

 

[00Stinger]

Melbourne supporters using coaches votes for Oliver arguments while discounting them for Nic Nat vs Gawn is hilarious.

Less than two hours and this hasn't aged very well at all