Rolling Ashes Squad Thread, now featuring Haddin XII v Hick XII beginning p. 147

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Trying Warner at 6 isn't the worst idea. Even though I can't see it happening, and think trying to fit more than 2 genuine openers into a top 6 can be disruptive and risky for the whole line up. But he did have to slide in at 6 after his suspension for hitting Root if I recall correctly. So it's not completely unheard of

Warner averages close to 50 opening. He’ll be opening it’s where he gets the most runs. Why are we changing his position for two openers who average 10+ runs less. Bancroft can bat at 6.
 

JezzasOnTheAsphalt

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Warner averages close to 50 opening. He’ll be opening it’s where he gets the most runs. Why are we changing his position for two openers who average 10+ runs less. Bancroft can bat at 6.

We aren't gonna be changing his position. Don't see it happening as I said. Ideally for me you don't try to fit more than 2 openers into a side and play genuine middle order bats instead who are used to coming in after wickets and constructing an innings from there.
Point was it has been tried before, and he isn't the worst there compared to the revolving door of number 6's from the last few years either in my books
 
We aren't gonna be changing his position. Don't see it happening as I said. Ideally for me you don't try to fit more than 2 openers into a side and play genuine middle order bats instead who are used to coming in after wickets and constructing an innings from there.
Point was it has been tried before, and he isn't the worst there compared to the revolving door of number 6's from the last few years either in my books

You pick your best openers, that’s Warner and someone, personally it’s Burns just but there’s a case for the other two. Bancroft some chance at 6 as he’s done that more often. Khawaja has done enough to bat 3 at this stage (this is the one position I haven’t locked in). Smith at 4,Head at 5, Patterson at 6. Don’t over complicate it.
 

to1994

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If we're going to be making judgements like that months out, why even take Starc?



By who?

I think we get too obsessive over the conditions, when we really just should select the best we have available, and let them *test* themselves by adapting like any good player would.

Because Starc in good form would be useful on the flat wickets over there like we've seen from Lords and The Oval at times. What's the difference between saying it now and the day before the first Test? He's had two tours over there and shown he's not really suited.
 

to1994

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I was honest to goodness clicking on this to post something similar. Obviously a bit outside the box, but it would be a left-field move that could really strengthen the middle order without prematurely breaking up what could be an effective partnership. Also gives them the opportunity to rotate in Bancroft (if he continues his strong Shield form.)

Harris
Burns
Patterson
Smith
Head
Warner
Paine
Cummins
Richardson
Lyon
Hazelwood

They'll want to back in Khawaja at 3 - particularly if he has a strong Pakistan series and World Cup - but I'm still not 100% convinced. Likewise with Starc; he's too much of a dice roll at the moment to justify a guaranteed spot.

This sort of squad is the worry I have. Every single summer people watch our bats hit runs against mediocre opposition (in this case Sri Lanka) and/or on roads and think we've found these stars in the making and all is right with Australia Cricket.

You're moving Warner to 6 all because Burns hit runs against a Sri Lankan attack that wasn't even Shield standard? He averages 48 in Tests over around 8 years opening the batting, completely ridiculous when Burns has failed in any testing conditions while Warner actually has a decent record over there.

Then there's Kurtis Patterson. Yes, he's been in good Shield form but his one and only century came when the match was essentially already won. Suddenly he's leapfrogged Khawaja who averages 42, in his last overseas assignment played one of if not the best innings by an Australian bat in in nearly 15 years outside of home.

I'm fine for these guys to be around the squad but Warner, Smith, Khawaja are seriously going to be key in England, we don't need to be moving them out of position and I expect all of Harris, Patterson and Head to do poorly or for maybe one or two to do OK and for it to be a learning experience. It is seriously tough over there when you have no experience, changing the top 6 like that is just a recipe for disaster.

This is why I'd prefer Bancroft over Harris, he at least has experience over there and unlike Harris actually has a batting style suited to opening in those conditions. Even if he's dismissed for 10 off 60, that's going to be far more valuable for our batsman at 3/4 then Harris nicking to the slips with 10 off 20.
 

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Surely Labuschagne and Renshaw are at the bottom of the queue now. Bancroft hasn't really put his name in lights either. He's had one good game out of four (with one innings to go). I don't think four openers are needed in a squad so I'd be leaving Bancroft out but I know that might not be the case.

Warner
Harris
Burns
Khawaja
Smith
Head
Patterson
Wade

To me, that is a logical eight pure batsmen to take.

Paine
Carey

Stoinis

Starc
Hazlewood
Cummins
Richo
Patto (he's worth the risk imo. his ability to win matches is almost unchallenged. Worth taking as a fifth paceman)

Lyon
+ whichever spinner the selectors are feeling, be it Holland, Agar, SOK etc.
 

Ducky Tie

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Wade won’t be ahead of Bancroft. Bancroft could easily bat 6.

Pattinson would go on the A tour and then let’s see if he can get through it.
I don't see any point in stating as fact who selectors will prefer between two options. There is just no way of knowing.

I think Bancroft is a natural opener and there is little to no evidence which suggests he would be a better option than Wade at 6, as a reserve batsman.
 
I don't see any point in stating as fact who selectors will prefer between two options. There is just no way of knowing.

I think Bancroft is a natural opener and there is little to no evidence which suggests he would be a better option than Wade at 6, as a reserve batsman.

The selectors would pick the better batsmen more than likely. Bancroft was very good in SA, is brilliant inntbe field.

Plus he has a great record in England.

Honestly can’t see Wade going. If he wasn’t going to be picked this summer, I can see him missing. Doubt the selectors are in a rush to go back to Wade.

Been wrong before and I’ll aupport whoever they pick but can see Bancroft being picked. Just makes sense
 
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The selectors would pick the better batsmen more than likely. Bancroft was very good in SA, is brilliant inntbe field.

Plus he has a great record in England.

Honestly can’t see Wade going. If he wasn’t going to be picked this summer, I can see him missing. Doubt the selectors are in a rush to go back to Wade.

Been wrong before and I’ll aupport whoever they pick but can see Bancroft being picked. Just makes sense
I prefer Bancroft as well however he has done nothing since that really good match 3/4 matches ago. He will be playing in England anyway and probably be in the A side so there is plenty of opportunuity there. Same with Renshaw but will need a monumental A series and country record to get a spot in the team
 
I prefer Bancroft as well however he has done nothing since that really good match 3/4 matches ago. He will be playing in England anyway and probably be in the A side so there is plenty of opportunuity there. Same with Renshaw but will need a monumental A series and country record to get a spot in the team

Personally I’d be going with guys that have English form. That means I would be picking Bancroft and a few others. Renshaw would need a monster A tour.
 

Ducky Tie

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1553075096131.png

This is Bancroft's FC record. The matches for Gloucestershire are the only matches Bancroft has played in England.

I don't know where this notion has come from that Bancroft has a great record in England. I'm not saying he won't be on the tour, just my thoughts on that he shouldn't be a walk up for the squad
 

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My 11, rest of squad and notes on a few other guys.

1. Warner - At his best, a top 10 or even top 5 batsman in the world. Obvious question marks with having the year off but assuming he has a reasonable world cup and does ok in the warm up games, he will open.
2. Burns - Harris extremely unlucky but Burns is a more suitable partner (key word) to Warner. The obvious right hand, left hand combo but also completely different players. burns is more mature in a way, consistent and steady. A great partner for Warner (or Harris is Warner doesn't play well)
3. Khawaja - To an extent here due to white ball form but the classiest batsman in Aus. ideally I would like a more attacking option here but Khawajas recent form is too hard to ignore.
4. Smith - Top 3 batsman in the world when at his best. Same question marks as Warner but will bat here assuming no injuries.
5. Head - Was pretty consistent in the home summer. I still have my doubts but he gets first go.
6. Patterson - Huge fan, came in late in the summer and did extremely well. Hopefully wont be overwhelmed.
7. Paine - Still best 11. No other younger Keepers knocking down the door so keeps his spot until they do.
8. Cummins - MVP of the Aus team atm.
9. Starc - When fit, a superstar. Yes has struggled in England but is more mature and assuming he is fit, I expect a good series.
10. Lyon - Close to best spinner in the world.
11. Hazlewood - I hope he is fit because if so, I will expect a super series from him.

J.Richardson - Very unlucky and first one in if any of the fast bowlers are not fit.
Harris - First replacement for one of the openers or maybe even 3?
Labuschagne - Replacement for one of the middle order bastman

The above 14 to me are quite obvious fitness permitting. Maybe the best 11 changes but these guys will all be in the squad.

The last 3 are a total guess.

Wade - back up keeper. Could easily be Bancroft, Handscombe, Carey etc.
Stoinis - Purely because there is likely to be a fast bowling all rounder in the squad. I personally would have Michael Neser here even though he is a bowling all rounder rather than the preferred (by the Australian selectors) batting all rounder
Holland - purely because there needs to be a spin bowling back up. No obvious candidates really but one is likely to be selected. O'Keefe really the only other candidate.

Unlucky
Maxwell - Talent but not consistent enough/hated by the powers at be. Unlikely to play any test cricket.
Renshaw - A few months ago he would have in the best 11 but due to the reasonable form of Burns and Harris and Renshaws terrible Shield form he drops out of the squad. Will hopefully get his mojo back sooner rather than later. I have huge hopes on this guy.
Bancroft - A tad unlucky coming back through the BBL and then the dukes balls coming out post the BBL. Right in the selectors thoughts for the home summer.
Tremain/Warrell/Bird/Siddle/Boland - All in and around there. J Richardson has jumped them all really.
M Marsh - I don't think long term he is necessarily done, but short term not really close
S Marsh - Only really age and injuries counting against him. Not a million miles away and if he gets into the World cup team and does well, it wouldn't surprise me if he is in the 17 man ashes squad.
Pucovski - I still think it is too early for him. Will probably travel with the pre ashes 'A' squad to get some experience.
J Pattinson - I am not grouping him with the above fast bowlers. He is a unique talent. Only real question mark for me at test level is fitness. Huge Huge fan of this guy but may just be unlucky due to a lack of trust in his body to make it through a test series in England.
 
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I prefer Bancroft as well however he has done nothing since that really good match 3/4 matches ago. He will be playing in England anyway and probably be in the A side so there is plenty of opportunuity there. Same with Renshaw but will need a monumental A series and country record to get a spot in the team
This is only his fourth game; he scored 138 and 86 in his first, 52 and 11 in his second, 22 and 27 in his third before today’s failure. He has an average of 57. Hardly nothing.
 
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This is only his fourth game; he scored 138 and 86 in his first, 52 and 11 in his second, 22 and 27 in his third before today’s failure. He has an average of 57. Hardly nothing.

They said since that first game and they are right, an average of 23 in his last 3 games is nothing! He is supposed to be taking the spot of the competitions leading run scorer so would want to be more than a 1 hit wonder on what was a very flat pitch
 
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This is only his fourth game; he scored 138 and 86 in his first, 52 and 11 in his second, 22 and 27 in his third before today’s failure. He has an average of 57. Hardly nothing.
I did say he had done nothing since that great game, So he has actually done 52 and 11, 22 and 27 and 4 today with an average of 23.2. Still going over to England, and possibly the A tour but he will be behind the others.

Edit: as eddiesmith said
 
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Well, he scored a 50 two games ago, so by nothing since, you mean nothing in one game (and still got a start in both innings of that game). And of course, it all follows good BBL form. Hes not going to want to keep failing but he’s up there with the best run scorers this year, certainly ahead of guys like Labuschagne.
 

to1994

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If Harris hadn't played Test Cricket yet he'd be getting the spot no question but he was going backwards in Test Cricket, not forwards.

It's great that he's hitting a lot of Shield runs but he was starting to not look suitable as a Test match opener, let alone in England.

Saying Bancroft has a great record in England is false, but he at least has experience and I'm fairly sure his scores improved as he went along. Harris has never played there and it's a learning experience for most people so to throw him in there when we barely do tour matches these days and he'd be relying on practice games against our bowlers probably isn't going to help. Our bowlers have struggled to adapt in England for a long time so it probably won't help the batsman really prepare for Anderson etc.

Yes, Harris should be in the mix but I don't think Bancroft needs to heavily outscore Harris to get the spot, Harris should've gone down a peg or two after the Sri Lanka series so I'd say they're at least even since they're both in form.
 
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I’d play Bancroft but I reckon Harris gets first crack and it’s not exactly a controversial call. If he fails the first two Tests, then I think whoever of Bancroft or Burns performed in the tour matches will get the call-up.
 
If Harris hadn't played Test Cricket yet he'd be getting the spot no question but he was going backwards in Test Cricket, not forwards.

It's great that he's hitting a lot of Shield runs but he was starting to not look suitable as a Test match opener, let alone in England.

Saying Bancroft has a great record in England is false, but he at least has experience and I'm fairly sure his scores improved as he went along. Harris has never played there and it's a learning experience for most people so to throw him in there when we barely do tour matches these days and he'd be relying on practice games against our bowlers probably isn't going to help. Our bowlers have struggled to adapt in England for a long time so it probably won't help the batsman really prepare for Anderson etc.

Yes, Harris should be in the mix but I don't think Bancroft needs to heavily outscore Harris to get the spot, Harris should've gone down a peg or two after the Sri Lanka series so I'd say they're at least even since they're both in form.
You have four first class games running concurrently to the WC (except the last against Australia). He, Bancroft, Burns will duke out the top order spots. Wade, Patterson, Head, Pucovski for the middle order spots. Pattinson, Tremain, Bird and Neser for the 5th quick spot.
 
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If Harris hadn't played Test Cricket yet he'd be getting the spot no question but he was going backwards in Test Cricket, not forwards.

It's great that he's hitting a lot of Shield runs but he was starting to not look suitable as a Test match opener, let alone in England.

Saying Bancroft has a great record in England is false, but he at least has experience and I'm fairly sure his scores improved as he went along. Harris has never played there and it's a learning experience for most people so to throw him in there when we barely do tour matches these days and he'd be relying on practice games against our bowlers probably isn't going to help. Our bowlers have struggled to adapt in England for a long time so it probably won't help the batsman really prepare for Anderson etc.

Yes, Harris should be in the mix but I don't think Bancroft needs to heavily outscore Harris to get the spot, Harris should've gone down a peg or two after the Sri Lanka series so I'd say they're at least even since they're both in form.

You could look at Bancroft and say he got better with the added responsibility in South Africa...Or you could say Bancroft struggled against England in Australian conditions, so how can you expect him to do well in English conditions?
 

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If you were going to pick a best XI based purely on their best, you’d go with this I reckon:

1. Warner
2. Khawaja
3. Smith
4. Maxwell
5. Head
6. Wade
7. Paine
8. Pattinson
9. Cummins
10. Starc
11. Lyon
 
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Well, he scored a 50 two games ago, so by nothing since, you mean nothing in one game (and still got a start in both innings of that game). And of course, it all follows good BBL form. Hes not going to want to keep failing but he’s up there with the best run scorers this year, certainly ahead of guys like Labuschagne.
No, l know what l meant. A 50 (where he only just scored 50) is not a particularly great score that would help swap him with the incumbent. He needs to score 100's, especially with the competition. All the 50 shows is that he got in but got out relatively quickly. I like him but this is not a score that he would be happy with.
 
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