Rolling Ashes Squad Thread, now featuring Haddin XII v Hick XII beginning p. 147

[eddiesmith]

Is a quite funny, we are complaining about players averaging low 30s in tests and saying they’re are no good, the batting is struggling big time, but it’s ok to carry a batsman averaging 18!!! Did you ever think the problem is these new players come in and the experienced player in the lineup is so ******* s**t and out of form thy don’t have any guidance?

If Shaun Marsh plays Sri Lanka let alone the Ashes shows there is something seriously wrong with Australian Cricket and it’s initials are BNG.

 

[Len Nicodemo]

So was Du Plessis and he got what the ICC stipulates. 3-4 matches would have been more than sufficient. That’s 3 to 4 times more than the ICC stipulates.

Again, couldn’t care less what the ICC says, happy with us rubbing him out for 12 months for being a cheating dog

 

[Caesar]

I appreciate the lack of depth we have but I don’t accept that we therefore accept mediocrity and tell ourselves it’s the best we’ve got. In fact Marsh’s 2018 has been below mediocre, it’s been awful. We learn nothing from him strugggling massively, while on chance number 8 in the test team. I’ve never seen this sort of circumstance where a now 35 gets gifted endless chances based on potential rather than performance. Yes he scores heavily in the shield and so his selection this summer was justified, but he has yet again done nothing with it.

What's the alternative? Throw a bunch of demonstrably worse FC batsmen at the wall and hope something sticks? England tried that in the '90s and it did nothing but destroy a whole lot of young players.

If you're going to make an evidence-based selection of the best team available - Shaun Marsh is part of that team, mediocre or not.

 

[Ducky Tie]

What's the alternative? Throw a bunch of demonstrably worse FC batsmen at the wall and hope something sticks?

England tried that in the '90s and it did nothing but destroy a whole lot of young players.

I don’t think it will ruin Wade or Burns to be chucked in. We already have enough youth in. If they fail, we haven’t lost anything. I agree in the team reflecting FC form. Marsh was the best performing, he got another crack. It didn’t work, again. Tick it off the list, move to the next option.

 

[Caesar]

I don’t think it will ruin Wade or Burns to be chucked in. We already have enough youth in. If they fail, we haven’t lost anything. I agree in the team reflecting FC form. Marsh was the best performing, he got another crack. It didn’t work, again. Tick it off the list, move to the next option.

If you are going on current FC form, Marsh has been superior to both Wade and Burns this Shield season:

Wade: 12 innings, 571 runs @ 63.44 (1 century)
Burns: 12 innings, 472 runs @ 57.20 (0 centuries)
Marsh: 6 innings, 443 runs @ 88.60 (1 century)

 

[damochandler]

The suspension was because the tampered with the ball. It was because of how they went about it.

 

[Ducky Tie]

If you are going on current FC form, Marsh has been superior to both Wade and Burns this Shield season.

I tried to reference that in my previous post. That’s why I think it was fair to give him one last chance. Having the best FC average this year though does not give him a locked in place for life. He clearly could not convert that form to test level against India in the tests. It doesn’t mean that no FC form can used as a guide however. It is still possible for Wade or Burns etc who have had good form to come in and make an impact. Just because Marsh could not doesn’t mean no one can.

 

[Caesar]

We're not talking about a spot for life, we're talking about the best team on current form.

Why would you think Wade or Burns will do better, given that they are both also failed at Test level and currently performing significantly worse than Marsh in the Shield?

It's just change for the sake of change.

 

[archibald]

What's the alternative? Throw a bunch of demonstrably worse FC batsmen at the wall and hope something sticks? England tried that in the '90s and it did nothing but destroy a whole lot of young players.

If you're going to make an evidence-based selection of the best team available - Shaun Marsh is part of that team, mediocre or not.

At some point though you have to realise when a batsman is unable, for whatever reason, to translate his domestic form onto the international stage. Marsh is Australia's equivalent of Hick/Ramprakash. Perhaps the malaise was due to blindly believing that transition would eventuate.

 

[Ducky Tie]

Why would you think Wade or Burns will do better, given that they are both also failed at Test level and currently performing significantly worse than Marsh in the Shield?

It's just change for the sake of change.

It’s simply not change for the sake of change. Marsh has made one 50 in 20 innings. That is garbage form. It isn’t horses for courses where we could lose his solid form. Marsh is currently on his 8th recall to the team. Not second or third. There is a clear difference. Your point about them averaging less this year in the shield is nonsensical. Does someone have to average 90 from now on to get a look in just because Marsh did?

 

[toml]

I've got to say, I'm really starting to warm to Stoinis at 6, there is just something about him. He is a competitor and he is a pretty good bat who has been constantly improving. Feel free to shoot me down but if you are going to take a punt on an all rounder, I'd FAR prefer him over Labushayne and I'm a Queensland supporter.

Who cares if someone has ‘something about them’. The bloke hasn’t made a FC century in over 2yrs. Mitch has made 8 in that time and he still sucks. I don’t understand at all why people think Stoinis would be any better.

 

[Seedsfan]

Our Australia A side plays a series every second year. Nobody is going to sponsor or attend an Aus A series that is run simultaneous to a test series. I attended the last time India A toured Australia and despite the amount of talent in our side nobody came to watch and the media barely covered it.

The amount our second best XI plays has never been an issue....until this series, were we had an underperforming first XI and were in a state of panic at the thought of where our next runs were going to come from.

At the end of the day if BBL gets kids interested and playing cricket that’s a win for our development. From there we need to implement a correct grassroots pathway that moulds these kids into technically correct cricketers. An extra second XI tour here and there is merely a bandaid solution.

Yet again you completely miss the point it doesn’t take a genius to work out now that players play less first class cricket the quality of test batting has gone backwards. Yes the A tours aren’t going to be drawing big crowds but they fill a vital role India’s second XI would of been a step up from playing state cricket it would not only keep players on the fringe playing red ball cricket it would expose them do different challenges to playing state cricket. As Bradman said there is no substitute to time in the middle and it is something our batsmen aren’t getting enough of at the moment. The cricket calendar in this is an absolute mess at the moment.

 

[eddiesmith]

Finch averaged 27 this season, dropped never to return

Marsh averaged 18, cant be dropped because there is no one better...

 

[Kram]

It’s simply not change for the sake of change. Marsh has made one 50 in 20 innings. That is garbage form. It isn’t horses for courses where we could lose his solid form. Marsh is currently on his 8th recall to the team. Not second or third. There is a clear difference. Your point about them averaging less this year in the shield is nonsensical. Does someone have to average 90 from now on to get a look in just because Marsh did?

Glenn Maxwell has started a Test career with one score past 50 in 14 innings and according to half this board he's the unluckiest and most robbed player by the selectors in the history of cricket.

 

[Stax on the mill]

Burns deserves it over Warner. Warner is ******* cheat.

Yawn!

 

[Scorpus]

http://cricviz.com/2019/01/cricviz-analysis-who-should-australia-pick/

Very interesting analysis

Their conclusion is the four players that should be selected (in addition to Harris and Khawaja) are: Joe Burns, Kurtis Patterson, Will Pucovski, and Matthew Wade. Peter Handscomb the next in.

Based on three years of Shield batting data taking into account averages, consistency, false shot rates, and the match conditions

They also suggest players like Stoinis, Carey, Bancroft, Maxwell and Renshaw are only mid-tier performers. While Head, Shaun Marsh and Labuschagne are doing alright but not as well as the top 4-5.

 

[Gough]

Glenn Maxwell has started a Test career with one score past 50 in 14 innings and according to half this board he's the unluckiest and most robbed player by the selectors in the history of cricket.

I'm of the view that Maxwell is no better or no worse than players who are currently in the side but I do think he's had a rough run with mixed messaging from CA and I think it's fairly obvious that there are some personal issues at play but with both the Lehmann and Langer regimes which raises more questions in itself. I suspect we'll have to wait for the books to come out to get the whole story.

 

[Doss]

Yet again you completely miss the point it doesn’t take a genius to work out now that players play less first class cricket the quality of test batting has gone backwards. Yes the A tours aren’t going to be drawing big crowds but they fill a vital role India’s second XI would of been a step up from playing state cricket it would not only keep players on the fringe playing red ball cricket it would expose them do different challenges to playing state cricket. As Bradman said there is no substitute to time in the middle and it is something our batsmen aren’t getting enough of at the moment. The cricket calendar in this is an absolute mess at the moment.

He isn’t saying it wouldn’t be good for to be more A tours; he is saying it’s just never going to happen because CA think only in terms of $$$.

 

[Park cricketer]

Very interesting article. Why is this Pucovski guy not in the squad yet?

 

[Gough]

http://cricviz.com/2019/01/cricviz-analysis-who-should-australia-pick/

Very interesting analysis

Their conclusion is the four players that should be selected (in addition to Harris and Khawaja) are: Joe Burns, Kurtis Patterson, Will Pucovski, and Matthew Wade. Peter Handscomb the next in.

Based on three years of Shield batting data taking into account averages, consistency, false shot rates, and the match conditions

They also suggest players like Stoinis, Carey, Bancroft, Maxwell and Renshaw are only mid-tier performers. While Head, Shaun Marsh and Labuschagne are doing alright but not as well as the top 4-5.

Head is very clearly a project player, lets hope Greg Chappell can break the habit of a coaching lifetime and actually get one of these right. He would be absolutely the first up against the wall if I got my hands on CA.

 

[Seedsfan]

He isn’t saying it wouldn’t be good for to be more A tours; he is saying it’s just never going to happen because CA think only in terms of $$$.

He called it a bandaid fix. Financially it isn’t an issue the game has plenty of money they have players contracted who aren’t playing. There is just no will to do it. As cricket Australia never takes any proactive action

 

[damochandler]

Hasn’t played a full season. Battling demons and if the kid fails and gets dropped we may never see him play again

Very interesting article. Why is this Pucovski guy not in the squad yet?

 

[HLM*]

Yet again you completely miss the point it doesn’t take a genius to work out now that players play less first class cricket the quality of test batting has gone backwards. Yes the A tours aren’t going to be drawing big crowds but they fill a vital role India’s second XI would of been a step up from playing state cricket it would not only keep players on the fringe playing red ball cricket it would expose them do different challenges to playing state cricket. As Bradman said there is no substitute to time in the middle and it is something our batsmen aren’t getting enough of at the moment. The cricket calendar in this is an absolute mess at the moment.

How did I miss the point? You suggested that CA could monetise a second XI tour and I responded to that? The noise about Big Bash disrupting the Shield season wasn’t loud last season when our batsmen were scoring hundreds for fun. We are just unfortunately going through a period were our batsman aren’t as good as the previous generation. It all starts and is going wrong at the grass roots level. An overhaul is needed from the ground up. Our second XI playing simultaneous to our test side isn’t going to make Mitch Marsh score hundred after hundred overnight.

 

[big_e]

Very interesting article. Why is this Pucovski guy not in the squad yet?

Because one innings constitutes 41% of his entire FC career runs.

 

[Howard Littlejohn]

Squad named on Wednesday.

Hopefully the batsmen get pulled from the BBL, and forced to bat eight hours a day with punishments for getting out. Anything to eliminate (or at least reduce) the stupid.