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WATIGE said:
A few of you are saying we only go with 38 for TPP reasons - I think you will find it is more for contract length reasons - if they are chosen in either the ND or PSD they have to be given a two year contract - Rookies are a year by year prospect. Plus as said previously with a 38 list you get the two extra Rookies and gives you more flexibility on who utimately goes on the main list - if anyone - during the list change windows pre and mid season. More fleibility too in case of injury upgrade.
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You are spot on here. Rookies are also included within TPP. Having 38 on the list also allows RFC to assess the selected rookies and promote the best two as we did with Petterd and Big O last season. Plus if we deem the rookie not good enough then the club is not tied into a 2year contract and can let them go...like Lonergan
 
What time is the rookie draft on wednesday? also is the pre season draft straight after?
And what picks do we have this year? I mainly focus on the draft each year so havent got much insight into the rookies but still curious
 
No more project rucks for mine, if spending years developing guys like Graham, Browne and Derickz hasn't proven this to everyone I don't know what will? I know Hampson's no world beater, but we've put no development $'s into him in his career so far, and look! He's on our list right at his prime playing age, let someone else trial rucks, if we need another good one we'll get them when it's time.
 

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strauchy said:
What time is the rookie draft on wednesday? also is the pre season draft straight after?
And what picks do we have this year? I mainly focus on the draft each year so havent got much insight into the rookies but still curious
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PSD at 11, Rookie straight after.
 
tigs2010 said:
The point of waiting would be to discuss whether or not we could afford to do it or not. Can shift player payments around easily if the recruiters deem it worthwhile. What they wouldn't do is make a rushed decision on the fly on Thursday night but if an opportunity came up they'd take the week to talk it through.

Not saying it will happen, just interested to see if there's someone we like that we may jump at given our position in the PSD.
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I reckon when you already know the financials(50k) of a new draftee this would be incredible mismanagement not to know if you can afford it or not( this little amount in the scheme of things). Actually the AFL I think tell you what your tpp is at. Now whether you want to guarantee a new draftee a 2 year deal as required is understandable if your not sure but going on what you said about ratings and you tick them off as go would suggest we would know who we want and if we would give him a go.
 
WATIGE said:
A few of you are saying we only go with 38 for TPP reasons - I think you will find it is more for contract length reasons - if they are chosen in either the ND or PSD they have to be given a two year contract - Rookies are a year by year prospect. Plus as said previously with a 38 list you get the two extra Rookies and gives you more flexibility on who utimately goes on the main list - if anyone - during the list change windows pre and mid season. More fleibility too in case of injury upgrade.
Click to expand...

I think the contract length would only apply if we are constantly upgrading rookies who generally only get 1 year deals. We are getting to a stage when some players will only be given 1 year deals so imo I don't think this is a priority but I could be wrong.
 
sregit said:
You are spot on here. Rookies are also included within TPP. Having 38 on the list also allows RFC to assess the selected rookies and promote the best two as we did with Petterd and Big O last season. Plus if we deem the rookie not good enough then the club is not tied into a 2year contract and can let them go...like Lonergan
Click to expand...

Can someone confirm how the rookie wages are calculated and included into the tpp. I heard it was 50%?
 
theflea said:
I reckon when you already know the financials(50k) of a new draftee this would be incredible mismanagement not to know if you can afford it or not( this little amount in the scheme of things). Actually the AFL I think tell you what your tpp is at. Now whether you want to guarantee a new draftee a 2 year deal as required is understandable if your not sure but going on what you said about ratings and you tick them off as go would suggest we would know who we want and if we would give him a go.
Click to expand...

You answered in the second part. You've got to shuffle figures for 2 years and we'd already know who we're targeting in trades next year.

They may have a guy they rate a rookie prospect/project that they find out will go before our rookie pick. They'd need to weigh that up as well. i.e. Templeton?
 
tigs2010 said:
You answered in the second part. You've got to shuffle figures for 2 years and we'd already know who we're targeting in trades next year.

They may have a guy they rate a rookie prospect/project that they find out will go before our rookie pick. They'd need to weigh that up as well. i.e. Templeton?
Click to expand...

yep agree which means there is no chance we will take a player in the psd which was my point.
 
Greggy said:
No more project rucks for mine, if spending years developing guys like Graham, Browne and Derickz hasn't proven this to everyone I don't know what will? I know Hampson's no world beater, but we've put no development $'s into him in his career so far, and look! He's on our list right at his prime playing age, let someone else trial rucks, if we need another good one we'll get them when it's time.
Click to expand...
You may be right here. Very slim chance rookie listed rucks will make it.
 

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theflea said:
Can someone confirm how the rookie wages are calculated and included into the tpp. I heard it was 50%?
Click to expand...
I am not sure what the exact dollar figure is, however, I believe it is now around 38K of which yes 50% is included in the TPP ...19k roughly. In the event a player is contracted above the Rookie wAge then this also must be included in the TPP.

Rookies promoted are paid approximately $2900 per senior game.
 
For mine there are 4 types of players I'd like us to look at and I added 5th (rucks) for those interested though personally I'd wait to see what gets dished up next year, when Orren probably goes, as it's not exactly an inspiring bunch.

1. Big Midfielders
Would be nice to be able to nab a big midfielder at some point and we probably will with Matt Thomas being looked at. Ideally we look at others instead and there are others looking at Thomas so he may well be gone.

Options:
1. Nick Favretto (West Adelaide - 189cm/89kg) - Kid that just racks up the footy and uses it well by both hand and foot. Tested really well in the sprint but most importantly actually uses his speed. I actually don't get the knock on him so don't ask.

2. Nicholas Bourke (Geelong - 188cm/80kg) - More of a rebounding defender but a nice option all the same. I think he will make it as a line breaking HBF.

3. Ben Sokol (South Fremantle - 185cm/86kg) - No idea if he will go, if he does it's probably late rookie, due to some potential issues with his skin folds and how hard he works. Not an elite kick either but he's strong with a big tank.

4. Matt Thomas (Port Adelaide - 186cm/87kg) - Delisted by Port and training with us. Likely to be taken with 3rd pick if no one else gets in first.

2. Small Inside Mids
Smaller inside mids tend to make good rookies whereby they don't have a standout attribute and aren't big but they work hard and get results. See Nathan Foley for an example of what I'm looking for here.

Options:
1. Eli Templeton (Burnie - 182cm/75kg) - He doesn't really fit this category but he's too good to pass up if there and he's a small mid. Likely gone by our first selection but as he fills out to sort of 80kg+ he will become an inside mid IMO.

2. James Battersby (Sturt - 177kg/78kg) - I think he goes before our pick as well but he's a good player. Only real knock on him is he's 177cm and not gifted athletically.

3. Campbell Combe (North Adelaide - 178cm/82kg) - An absolute bull of an inside mid this kid. One I really, really like as a rookie prospect. Was never going to go National Draft but is one of those potential bargains. A lefty as well from memory so offers something a bit different.

4. James Tsitas (Geelong - 181cm/78kg) - Hard-worker with very good defensive game and leadership. Will give himself every chance to make a career for himself. Has a big tank and is ready to go. Don't think his skills are as good as Combe's from what I've seen.

3. Small Forwards
Small forwards often succeed off the rookie list rather than wasting early picks on them. With King probably entering his last year, Nahas and White gone, we may end up with only Lloyd who whilst I like him, he's no certainty to make it.

Options:
1. Charlie Cameron (Swan Districts - 183cm/72kg) - I rate this kid first because he works hard and has a 2-way game so he could be a great option to replace King, plus he has played senior footy in the WAFL. Probably lacks some tricks that other options have.
2. Dwayne Wilson (Sturt - 179cm/74kg) - Possibly the best skills in the draft but lacks a strong work ethic. Probably wouldn't take him first pick but if available later I'd consider.
3. Alex Spina (North Adelaide - 181cm/75kg) - HFF that can play in the midfield. Didn't live up to expectations this year, which means either his work ethic isn't there to improve his game or there is another factor as to why he didn't improve as much as expected and there is some upside there.
4. Tim Kelly (South Fremantle - 181cm/78kg) - Nice size for a small forward and is a very clean player and can win his own footy pretty well for a small forward.
5. Alex Saunders (Gippsland - 180cm/70kg) - Quality, hard working small forward from Gippy in the TAC. Has a big tank for a small forward so has some potential to really develop into an outside mid as well as forward pocket type and give himself some positional versatility. Has solid defensive game which gives him an extra tick.
6. Richard Bourne (East Fremantle - 178cm/61kg) - Quick as they come, like a Jeff Garlett type, but he's about half the weight of Garlett so may need to put some weight on before getting an opportunity in the future. Talent isn't an issue.
4. Key Defenders
Key defenders are the final type I feel can have success and have some value in this rookie draft. We also have a need to grab some defensive depth.
Options:
1. James Toohey (Oakleigh - 197cm/96kg) - 19yo who won Oakleigh's B&F. Has a mammoth kick on him and is super competitive and athletic. Needs to still improve defensively but gave Apeness a touch up recently. Only moved back this year.
2. Matthew Sully (Geelong VFL - 196cm/95kg) - Mature aged defender in the VFL who is rarely beaten and had a good season. He's ready to go at 21yo and is a neat kick without being any sort of weapon. Very good one-on-one though.
5. Rucks
Finally rucks are a type I think have a fair bit of success over the years. Just not sold any of them this year will get there.
Options:
1. Josh Miller (Glenelg - 204cm/94kg) - Athletic 18yo from SA. Excellent tap work with his athleticism and a nice size at 204cm. Needs to get more involved around the ground though in general play.
2. Darcy Cameron (Claremont - 203cm/102kg) - Big lump of a kid who is a very good contested mark and has elite skills for a big man. Flunked the athletic testing at the Combine apparently, so I went back and watched a bit of him today. He tested badly for jumping and watching it closely the kid really can't jump.
3. Scott Jones (East Perth - 203cm/101kg) - Injury-stricken ruckman from WA who was the no.1 ruck for WA last year. With such limited exposure this year he probably doesn't go in this draft.
OVERALL
I'd like to see us hit up 3 of the first 4 categories. Something along the lines of (in no particular order): Nick Favretto (big midfielder), Campbell Combe (small inside mid), Charlie Cameron (small forward). I'd love us to get a KPD but have a feeling both the guys I like could go very, very early with Saints, Kangas, Dees looking for a defender.
 
tigs2010 said:
For mine there are 4 types of players I'd like us to look at and I added 5th (rucks) for those interested though personally I'd wait to see what gets dished up next year, when Orren probably goes, as it's not exactly an inspiring bunch.

1. Big Midfielders
Would be nice to be able to nab a big midfielder at some point and we probably will with Matt Thomas being looked at. Ideally we look at others instead and there are others looking at Thomas so he may well be gone.

Options:
1. Nick Favretto (West Adelaide - 189cm/89kg) - Kid that just racks up the footy and uses it well by both hand and foot. Tested really well in the sprint but most importantly actually uses his speed. I actually don't get the knock on him so don't ask.

2. Nicholas Bourke (Geelong - 188cm/80kg) - More of a rebounding defender but a nice option all the same. I think he will make it as a line breaking HBF.

3. Ben Sokol (South Fremantle - 185cm/86kg) - No idea if he will go, if he does it's probably late rookie, due to some potential issues with his skin folds and how hard he works. Not an elite kick either but he's strong with a big tank.

4. Matt Thomas (Port Adelaide - 186cm/87kg) - Delisted by Port and training with us. Likely to be taken with 3rd pick if no one else gets in first.

2. Small Inside Mids
Smaller inside mids tend to make good rookies whereby they don't have a standout attribute and aren't big but they work hard and get results. See Nathan Foley for an example of what I'm looking for here.

Options:
1. Eli Templeton (Burnie - 182cm/75kg) - He doesn't really fit this category but he's too good to pass up if there and he's a small mid. Likely gone by our first selection but as he fills out to sort of 80kg+ he will become an inside mid IMO.

2. James Battersby (Sturt - 177kg/78kg) - I think he goes before our pick as well but he's a good player. Only real knock on him is he's 177cm and not gifted athletically.

3. Campbell Combe (North Adelaide - 178cm/82kg) - An absolute bull of an inside mid this kid. One I really, really like as a rookie prospect. Was never going to go National Draft but is one of those potential bargains. A lefty as well from memory so offers something a bit different.

4. James Tsitas (Geelong - 181cm/78kg) - Hard-worker with very good defensive game and leadership. Will give himself every chance to make a career for himself. Has a big tank and is ready to go. Don't think his skills are as good as Combe's from what I've seen.

3. Small Forwards
Small forwards often succeed off the rookie list rather than wasting early picks on them. With King probably entering his last year, Nahas and White gone, we may end up with only Lloyd who whilst I like him, he's no certainty to make it.

Options:
1. Charlie Cameron (Swan Districts - 183cm/72kg) - I rate this kid first because he works hard and has a 2-way game so he could be a great option to replace King, plus he has played senior footy in the WAFL. Probably lacks some tricks that other options have.
2. Dwayne Wilson (Sturt - 179cm/74kg) - Possibly the best skills in the draft but lacks a strong work ethic. Probably wouldn't take him first pick but if available later I'd consider.
3. Alex Spina (North Adelaide - 181cm/75kg) - HFF that can play in the midfield. Didn't live up to expectations this year, which means either his work ethic isn't there to improve his game or there is another factor as to why he didn't improve as much as expected and there is some upside there.
4. Tim Kelly (South Fremantle - 181cm/78kg) - Nice size for a small forward and is a very clean player and can win his own footy pretty well for a small forward.
5. Alex Saunders (Gippsland - 180cm/70kg) - Quality, hard working small forward from Gippy in the TAC. Has a big tank for a small forward so has some potential to really develop into an outside mid as well as forward pocket type and give himself some positional versatility. Has solid defensive game which gives him an extra tick.
6. Richard Bourne (East Fremantle - 178cm/61kg) - Quick as they come, like a Jeff Garlett type, but he's about half the weight of Garlett so may need to put some weight on before getting an opportunity in the future. Talent isn't an issue.
4. Key Defenders
Key defenders are the final type I feel can have success and have some value in this rookie draft. We also have a need to grab some defensive depth.
Options:
1. James Toohey (Oakleigh - 197cm/96kg) - 19yo who won Oakleigh's B&F. Has a mammoth kick on him and is super competitive and athletic. Needs to still improve defensively but gave Apeness a touch up recently. Only moved back this year.
2. Matthew Sully (Geelong VFL - 196cm/95kg) - Mature aged defender in the VFL who is rarely beaten and had a good season. He's ready to go at 21yo and is a neat kick without being any sort of weapon. Very good one-on-one though.
5. Rucks
Finally rucks are a type I think have a fair bit of success over the years. Just not sold any of them this year will get there.
Options:
1. Josh Miller (Glenelg - 204cm/94kg) - Athletic 18yo from SA. Excellent tap work with his athleticism and a nice size at 204cm. Needs to get more involved around the ground though in general play.
2. Darcy Cameron (Claremont - 203cm/102kg) - Big lump of a kid who is a very good contested mark and has elite skills for a big man. Flunked the athletic testing at the Combine apparently, so I went back and watched a bit of him today. He tested badly for jumping and watching it closely the kid really can't jump.
3. Scott Jones (East Perth - 203cm/101kg) - Injury-stricken ruckman from WA who was the no.1 ruck for WA last year. With such limited exposure this year he probably doesn't go in this draft.
OVERALL
I'd like to see us hit up 3 of the first 4 categories. Something along the lines of (in no particular order): Nick Favretto (big midfielder), Campbell Combe (small inside mid), Charlie Cameron (small forward). I'd love us to get a KPD but have a feeling both the guys I like could go very, very early with Saints, Kangas, Dees looking for a defender.
Click to expand...

Thanks for your post tigs2010 - appreciate you giving the rest of us a good overview of who is still available to rookie.
From your list, I'd go with:
Mid
Nick Favretto (West Adelaide - 189cm/89kg)
Small Forwards
Dwayne Wilson (Sturt - 179cm/74kg)
Key Defenders
James Toohey (Oakleigh - 197cm/96kg)
Ruck
Darcy Cameron (Claremont - 203cm/102kg)
 
Hoping for:
Toohey - exactly the type of kid that should be on a rookie list.
Heavyside - best mid in the rookie draft, should already be on a senior list
Ruckman - Josh Miller. With 6 rookie spots we should always have a project ruckman.


Don't want Thomas - if we get to the point where we are playing him, then we probably have had a terrible year so might as well play the kids
 

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Rubber Hips said:
Thanks for your post tigs2010 - appreciate you giving the rest of us a good overview of who is still available to rookie.
From your list, I'd go with:
Mid
Nick Favretto (West Adelaide - 189cm/89kg)
Small Forwards
Dwayne Wilson (Sturt - 179cm/74kg)
Key Defenders
James Toohey (Oakleigh - 197cm/96kg)
Ruck
Darcy Cameron (Claremont - 203cm/102kg)
Click to expand...

No worries. We only have 3 spots though, so personally I would wait a year to see if a better ruck comes along. Having heard about Cameron's testing I went back to watch his footage. Purely because testing doesn't always emulate how they go in match. (look at Ben Lennon) But Cameron really can't jump. He barely gets off the ground. I think take him out of your 4 and that's the ideal scenario. I'm not confident one of those KPD's lasts to us and I don't really rate Tippett. I've said all along he's already failed twice, why waste a 3rd go on him. Good athlete, can't play.
 
captain cotch 9 said:
Does Ben Cavarra have a chance with us?
Click to expand...

Should go in the rookie draft. Too small for us. We really hate taking the short arse kids. Dimma hates them and wouldn't play him. Which is a waste of a pick for us and a waste of his time and destroys his chance to make it IMO.
 
I stand corrected, we do have a pick in the pre season dradt must have decided to go with 39 on our senior list this year.
 
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