Rookie Draft

[year of the cat]

fair call, if he does turn into a good ruckman at AFL level I'll happily put my hand up and say "I was wrong" ... however i honestly dont think i'll need to say that.

as a passionate geelong supporter, i hope he does turn into a gun big man ... but even my optimisn can't blind me from his lack of talent.

Its not so much his lack of talent as his habit of sooking after a decision goes against him or he gets outmarked that really gets to me. This may improve with maturity but he always stands there just shaking his head as if he can't believe what has just taken place.

In my opinion he is soft.

 

[Furious_G]

We have 1 ruckman that plays regularly, King.

Ottens is a great ruckman and I am his biggest supporter, but I don't want GFC to think of him as a ruckman. I want him to be thought of as Barry Hall, full time forward and may do some forward line work if we REALLY need it.

Blake is shocking and needs to improve his ball skills by a long way before I'll even consider taking him seriously.

I haven't seen West, but he has to be better than Blake.

Mooney and Playfair are not ruckman or even fill in ruckman. I'll even go so far as to say it is Mooney's fault that we lost the Melbourne game earlier in the year. I was at the game and when the game needed to be won, Ottens ran (plodded) in to the centre square to take control of the middle and Mooney told him to piss off. Ling was captain for that game and should have spoken up and told Mooney he was being slaughtered and to let Ottens play out the game. That REALLY pissed me off, because it showed what is wrong with GFC. No on field leadership. It is also the #1 reason why the team captain should ALWAYS be a midfielder.

 

[Reg Hickey]

Dear god, i relise that ruckman take time to develop ... but when they're as agile as a giraffe, and move like a sloth, they won't cut it against the other young ruckman in the competition.

If Blake wins a B&F i will feel for the coach in charge of the pathetic playing list, do u think he'll ever out poll ... Gary Ablett? Nathan Ablett? Jimmy Bartel? James Kelly? Steve Johnson? Andrew Mackie? Kane Tenace? (All of whome are within 2 years of Blake) - Not to mention Tom Hawkins, Joel Selwood, Travis Varcoe and Nathan Djerrkura who could all be champions - for Blake to win a B&F would require resting all of the above players for a good 12 months. Not guna happen - ever!

How long have you been watching footy? Do you know anything about development of ruckmen?

You are probably far too young to remember his old man, but he was bagged from pillar to post in his early days - dud, can't mark, can't kick, unco, etc, etc. Not entirely undeserved either - in my humble opinion he wasn't half the player the younger Blake is at the same age. Then, in his mid-20s, he suddenly improved out of sight within a couple of years and in 1980, at the age of 28, he won the B&F in a side that finished on top of the ladder, made the preliminary final and included great players like the Nankervis brothers, Sam Newman, Peter Featherby, Mick Turner, Scratcher Neal, Jack Hawkins (Tom's old man), etc. He was also the Brownlow favourite that year but missed out by just four votes.

Improving quite that much is probably not that common, but it WAS his old man, and it is well documented that ruckmen do get much better as they get older. Remember, the guy is only 20 years old. To get rid of him now would be a mistake - he has already shown enough to suggest that he will most likely be a very, very good player.

 

[Turbocat]

I for one have been an "add another ruck" for long time as any who can remember my posts on the subject will confirm. But this has little to do with Blake’s ability. I will continue to think we must at all times have a Ruck or 2 in development and 2 or 3 capable of holding down the position at senior level.

I think the subject of rucks are very much a personal taste type thing. Just how much importance does one place on the ruck position depend on what effect you think they have on results As the appointment of Lyon has shown at the Saints some , very educated footy people differ on the importance of the position and what they deem acceptable from players who play as ruckmen.

I believe in the importance of pure ruckman , an elite rucman is close to the most cructial player in a side. He has the abilty to have a vital impact purely becausee of the amount of neutral balls he contests and because so rarely is a ruckman matched up around the ground , he has the freedom to create like no other midfielder. A truly great ruckman makes his fellow mids better and provides an avenue to use thru the ground, he is not sheepish , he is a leader , its why so many rucks are given the role of Captain.

Is Blake such a player. I doubt it but not all rucks have to become champions , many players in the past have played a role for the side without being thought of as future members of the ‘Hall of Fame”. The thing is I think players like Cox are setting new standards in what clubs demand of ruckmen and I not sure Barry Round would have the same impact in modern footy as he did in the past. The game itself is evolving into a more fluid possession game , and all players must be able to play their part.

Blake strikes me as player as capable of being a role player if he can improve his play thru the ground. A player unsure about kicking the ball , wanting to hand pass once in possession is far to predictable in modern footy. If he can continue to progress with his ruck skill and ramp up his ground play I see a time when Blake may well be our #1 man. One thing to keep in mind is Mark’s father Rod. He took quite a while to prove his worth but in the end went close to a Brownlow.

In the meanwhile we should give an undervalued under 23 year old 200+ guy a chance to show life doesnt stop as a footballer if you arn't drafted at 18.

 

[WE Are Geelong]

I think Reg and Turbo offer a good insight into Blake's development as a player. I tend to agree with them that he will take longer than the average player does....and it could be just that simple..genes.

The other very good point is that when we drafted Blake he was considered a mobile ruckman....the standard has improved in the last few years to the point where you wouldnt say that now....and I mean that is obvious really. So he needs to become a better than average tap ruckman who can compete well in contested marking situations....so he needs to be able to read the play well to make those contests...

If there is a good enough candidate for Geelong to take a ruckman in the rookie draft I would be surprised....but I dont know for sure really...

I think draft 2007 is about Geelong biting the bullet and using their first round pick on a quality young ruckman....and if that isnt available...a quality defensive KPP....because they are the two pressing issues at Geelong moving forward...

We have drafted half a dozen midfielders in the last three drafts alone so using our first pick on another will hopefully be avoided unless you feel like you are passing up on a future champion...

The best candidates in this rookie draft seem to be midfielders again and utilites with the odd mature rookie with a bit more size...

 

[Turbocat]

I think Reg and Turbo offer a good insight into Blake's development as a player. I tend to agree with them that he will take longer than the average player does....and it could be just that simple..genes.

The other very good point is that when we drafted Blake he was considered a mobile ruckman....the standard has improved in the last few years to the point where you wouldnt say that now....and I mean that is obvious really. So he needs to become a better than average tap ruckman who can compete well in contested marking situations....so he needs to be able to read the play well to make those contests...

If there is a good enough candidate for Geelong to take a ruckman in the rookie draft I would be surprised....but I dont know for sure really...

I think draft 2007 is about Geelong biting the bullet and using their first round pick on a quality young ruckman....and if that isnt available...a quality defensive KPP....because they are the two pressing issues at Geelong moving forward...

We have drafted half a dozen midfielders in the last three drafts alone so using our first pick on another will hopefully be avoided unless you feel like you are passing up on a future champion...

The best candidates in this rookie draft seem to be midfielders again and utilites with the odd mature rookie with a bit more size...

If we have the worst season in living memory or if we are willing trade who ever it takes to get a very early pick the the player you are talking about is Mat Kreuzer. If we could lock him in , I'd be very happy but Im hoping to have P16 and that just aint gone get it done , so lets pick a kid with potential , get a good coach and see if we can make one.
Dont forget Cox was a Rookie

 

[catempire]

As a general rule, I think 4 genuine ruckman on the list is the way to go. For the simple reason that in a perfect world you'd play your best 2 in the seniors and have 2 developing in the VFL.

At the moment we have:

King
Ottens
Blake
West

So that's pretty much "my 4".

I make an exception to adding another rookie ruckman for the following reasons:

1. King is injury prone. There's no guarantee he'll play a majority of games.
2. Ottens is ideally used at full forward and relieving the number 1 ruckman.
3. Blake is 2-3 years off playing as the number 1 ruckman.
4. West only started to show signs of being anywhere close to being an AFL ruckman late in the season.

So I like the idea of drafting a rookie ruckman. My caveat to this is that it should be a bit of a punt. Have a crack at the next Dean Cox. Someone no one has considered but who oozes raw talent and potential. We've got time on our side with our current 4, so let's make an investment in the future 5 years down the track. I want to see a mobile, good-skilled (even if inconsistent), footy-brained, high leaping raw as they come kid drafted as a rookie.

 

[cozdawg#09]

fair call, if he does turn into a good ruckman at AFL level I'll happily put my hand up and say "I was wrong" ... however i honestly dont think i'll need to say that.

as a passionate geelong supporter, i hope he does turn into a gun big man ... but even my optimisn can't blind me from his lack of talent.

i havn't seen a great deal of him, although last season (2006), in the few games i did see, it appeared that he was putting in an enormous amount of effort, part of this i suspect would b due to pressure in regards to holding his spot in the side... although, if this is the way he goes about his footy, then i'd rather have him in the side than a few other players, as his work rate was enormous and he showed a lot of heart

 

[cozdawg#09]

Its not so much his lack of talent as his habit of sooking after a decision goes against him or he gets outmarked that really gets to me. This may improve with maturity but he always stands there just shaking his head as if he can't believe what has just taken place.

In my opinion he is soft.

i sure hope that example doesn't go with the final statement... shaking ur head after a decision against u surely isn't a sign of being soft?.. shaking his head could also mean that he's disappointed in himself couldnt it?.. if thats the way he deals with his anger then great, better than to do a mooney - belt someone an get suspended

 

[pilkos_cats]

Heres a ruckman worth a rookie shot

Todd Goldstein 200cm 102kg

"Todd came to us about round 15 and played very well. He's got terrific athleticism, great below the knees and was one of the best tap ive sean in my time in the TAC cup. he went to America to represent Aus in B ball and has only been playing footy for a year. he"s a real beuty" R Welsh Oakleigh Chargers Coach

any one seen or know much of this guy ?

 

[Rosella]

Heres a ruckman worth a rookie shot

Todd Goldstein 200cm 102kg

"Todd came to us about round 15 and played very well. He's got terrific athleticism, great below the knees and was one of the best tap ive sean in my time in the TAC cup. he went to America to represent Aus in B ball and has only been playing footy for a year. he"s a real beuty" R Welsh Oakleigh Chargers Coach

any one seen or know much of this guy ?

The Kangaroos drafted him.

 

[pilkos_cats]

So they did sorry my bad

 

[DanA]

So they did sorry my bad

Nugent would be the standout ruckmen available wouldn';t he. He was the guy sitting in Luenbergers shadow all year I think.

 

[Rosso]

No one wanted him. Both Essendon and Collingwood who were interested were horrified when they saw the xrays of his ankles. He will be staying at Geelong or be delisted down the track. I have it on good authority that he is not overly popular amongst a lot of the playing group due to an ongoing alcohol problem and the fact that he can tend to lead some of the other players astray.[/QUOTE]

And they say that we lack leadership skills at the cattery!!

SJ for captain.

 

[Reg Hickey]

As a general rule, I think 4 genuine ruckman on the list is the way to go. For the simple reason that in a perfect world you'd play your best 2 in the seniors and have 2 developing in the VFL.

At the moment we have:

King
Ottens
Blake
West

So that's pretty much "my 4".

I make an exception to adding another rookie ruckman for the following reasons:

1. King is injury prone. There's no guarantee he'll play a majority of games.
2. Ottens is ideally used at full forward and relieving the number 1 ruckman.
3. Blake is 2-3 years off playing as the number 1 ruckman.
4. West only started to show signs of being anywhere close to being an AFL ruckman late in the season.

So I like the idea of drafting a rookie ruckman. My caveat to this is that it should be a bit of a punt. Have a crack at the next Dean Cox. Someone no one has considered but who oozes raw talent and potential. We've got time on our side with our current 4, so let's make an investment in the future 5 years down the track. I want to see a mobile, good-skilled (even if inconsistent), footy-brained, high leaping raw as they come kid drafted as a rookie.

Good post.

The leading ruck prospects that I have seen mentioned for the rookie draft are Jacobs, Crozier and Nugent. Haven't seen any of them play but have heard that Jacobs in particular is a bit of a lumbering type which I really don't think we need after King and Ottens.

There are also a couple who might be good ruckmen if they grow a little bit more. For example, I have seen Adam Cockshell described as an extremely athletic 198cm, which sounds very enticing.

 

[Turbocat]

So I like the idea of drafting a rookie ruckman. My caveat to this is that it should be a bit of a punt. Have a crack at the next Dean Cox. Someone no one has considered but who oozes raw talent and potential. We've got time on our side with our current 4, so let's make an investment in the future 5 years down the track. I want to see a mobile, good-skilled (even if inconsistent), footy-brained, high leaping raw as they come kid drafted as a rookie.

I agree with you CE although Im not sure we could grab some kid like that as a Rookie. Just a cynic at heart I suppose , WC did it with Cox but its amazing how good they are at hiding guys over there. Any kid with the set of skills you have listed would have gone in the draft , IMO Look at Goldstien , he hardly played any footy at all , coming from a basketball background but showed most of what youve wanted for a very small amount of time in the U18's and still went in a very deep draft.
Maybe our best chance would be a guy who has been missed a 21 or 22 year old thats 205 ish and jumps thru the roof and is still eligible for a Rookie listing.

 

[Turbocat]

So just who do we think we will take?

We know what Davenport is like, we have shown a liking for drafting kids when we know their work rate because they have already been around the club. Davenport won the award for most promise or some such thing in the VFL and to be honest looked reasonable in the finals compared to others then on our list.

Another down at training is Tom Couch. Does anyone know the rules in regard to Couch , If Geelong don’t pick him after he has nominated this year does this eliminate all Father Son claims we have on for any future drafts?
I haven't seen any training , has he impressed when training with the group?
It would be a shame for us to lose a late developer like Tuck at the Hawks especially when he has a younger brother that’s possibly better (arnt most younger brothers better)

What about the two seasoned guys Reynolds and Iacobucci. Both have already played at AFL level , Reynolds is another like Sam Hunt and Richards in Sydney that seems to have been mismatched with the tasks given by Sheedy and may well be a better fit at another club. Yakka is another guy who has been in the system being taken at P55 in 04 , what he offers I'm not sure but certainly he would be more likely to contribute something than some very raw kid.

Unless there is some obvious talent that has been missed I wouldn’t be overly surprised with us taking a couple of the names above.

 

[Reg Hickey]

Raw kids is what the rookie draft is supposed to be all about. Barring a pretty horrendous run with injuries, these blokes won't play senior footy for at least this year and maybe next as well, so we should be going for whoever has the most potential even if they are a few years off.

That said, I would be very happy with Davenport. He definitely showed a bit in the VFL this year and as you say is much more of a known entity, and less of a punt than the young kids. Quick, great endurance, reads the play well, knows where the goals are. Just needs a little bit of polishing but that will come with time and experience.

Couch I haven't seen, but if he is like his old man then I'm not sure he's the type of player we need. We have already taken Selwood this year.

I'm not sold on either of Reynolds or Iaccobucci. Both delisted by clubs with less than stellar lists, so for mine they would have to have shown something very special in training to be considered.

I haven't seen a lot of the rookie prospects play personally, but I think with the depth of the draft this year there are bound to be a couple of gems in there. In particular there seem to be quite a few blokes with good pace and in particular excellent finishing skills, which is what many of us have been crying out for for a couple of years now:
- Jackson Sheringham
- Jarrod Harbrow
- Gavin Hughes
- Matthew Vasilevski
- Sharrod Wellingham
- Jacob Crate
- Sam Fielding

There are also a couple of big men who might be useful as longer term projects, especially given our possible lack of depth in the ruck and key defensive posts:
- Alex Lee
- Stefan Martin
- Adam Cockshell
- Paul Colbert

I'd be disappointed if Bomber Thompson's short window to prove himself translated to a too short term view in the rookie draft.

Anyway, my suggested picks:
1. Davenport
2. Vasilevski / Sheringham
3. Cockshell
4. Lonergan

 

[WE Are Geelong]

Just put a pick number next to Jacksons' name and not a and/or and I agree with that also Reg. In 2-3 years Geelong will be needing some ready made pacy midfielders and this is a good draft to be putting in that ground work. The idea of getting a bigger bloke to develop is ok with me.

I noticed or is it a misprint Lonners has nominated for the PSD? Given we dont have a pick in that draft sounds like he is open to being selected by another club. I wish him all the best but hope he stays with us.

I hope we take 5 or more picks in the rookie draft is what I am alluding to I guess if we are able to/allowed to...I see no good reason for cost cutting when there are decent guys out there in this draft who just need time to develop. Missing on Tom Couch as a rookie for instance just doesnt add up to me if the opportunity was there to take him.

 

[Turbocat]

Just put a pick number next to Jacksons' name and not a and/or and I agree with that also Reg. In 2-3 years Geelong will be needing some ready made pacy midfielders and this is a good draft to be putting in that ground work. The idea of getting a bigger bloke to develop is ok with me.

I noticed or is it a misprint Lonners has nominated for the PSD? Given we dont have a pick in that draft sounds like he is open to being selected by another club. I wish him all the best but hope he stays with us.

I hope we take 5 or more picks in the rookie draft is what I am alluding to I guess if we are able to/allowed to...I see no good reason for cost cutting when there are decent guys out there in this draft who just need time to develop. Missing on Tom Couch as a rookie for instance just doesnt add up to me if the opportunity was there to take him.

There only 4 spots with Milburn being a Vet and Grima being retained

 

[WE Are Geelong]

There only 4 spots with Milburn being a Vet and Grima being retained

Cool, well thats cleared that up...thanks. I just thought the AFL had given some money to clubs for more rookies...it obviously relates to clubs that only had 1 or 2 I guess...and I remember Bomber saying earlier this year he wished he could have more like ten rookies so that got me thinking also....to no avail...

 

[sherminator]

It will be very difficult to predict. Usually there is a local or 2 taken. First pick is best available in most cases. So it may look something like this.

1. Jackson Sheringham/ Tom Hurley.
2. Iacobucci
3. Couch
4. Lonergan

Not the best looking list, but probably the way Geelong will be headed. Alex Lee will also be considered I believe.

Isn't he ineligble?

 

[GeeCat]

Does anyone know the rules in regard to Couch , If Geelong don’t pick him after he has nominated this year does this eliminate all Father Son claims we have on for any future drafts?

Clubs don’t need to list F/S players as soon as they become eligible. At any age the player and Club can agree to the F/S listing provided that player has never been on an AFL list at any time.

 

[Turbocat]

Clubs don’t need to list F/S players as soon as they become eligible. At any age the player and Club can agree to the F/S listing provided that player has never been on an AFL list at any time.

OK , thanks G . So if we are not prohibited from taking Couch FS in 07 and if we are a bit unsure of his talent compared to another kid we can choose like Sheringham then I would run the risk and not pick him. He can play as a Supp player like Davenport in the VFL and gain the type of experience that would make him a valuable pick in 07

 

[Rhombus]

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