Certified Legendary Thread Roos lodge plans for massive Arden St upgrade

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Roogal

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Dec 7, 2016
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I don’t agree with much of this Roogal and usually appreciate your posting.

as a regular to the club for training, pre-season and VFL matches the venue is more than an office block - it’s a series of football activity open to all to enjoy and interact with players snd staff alike. Families go on the ground at breaks to listen to coaches talk to players snd people sitting around having picnics on the grass snd bluestone walls.

The facility itself is open to the community to use , including the ground which is fully accessible when not being used by the club. The basketball court , gym, pool etc.

As for the club spending club money on the venue - of course they should!! That’s their business. The club has a very long term arrangement with the Council and should 100% be investing in as well as working with Government to develop the ground/ budiness / Club etc. That’s their job.
I'm not disagreeing with you. My belief is that money spent on the facilities there by the club should be on the training/gym equipment, moveable furnishings, IT equipment etc. In other words the assets, which if the unthinkable were to occur and the club was forced to relocate in Melbourne or interstate, that the club can take with them. But I stand resolved that the club should not spend a brass razoo of it's limited funds on a building complex that it leases.
 

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Roogal

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Have you been to Arden Street recently? Say, anytime in the last ten years? Now the lockdown is over, I imagine the English language classes for the newly arrived in the Flemington housing estate will get underway again. There'll probably be a kids basketball game to catch as well. Enjoy
A kids basketball game ... geez that'd be worth driving 120 kays for. But seeing how you bastards want to deprive me a licenced cafe, player gallery and fanzone then I guess that I'll have to content myself with watching migrants learning English and a kids basketball game. I'll put it out there, you sure know how show a gal a good time. :rolleyesv1:

But just allow me 20 minutes beforehand to nip up to Ackland Street to grab a coffee and toastie :winkv1:
 

Shinboner1

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I know people are complaining about the huddle and the community work the club does etc, but you have to be realistic; there's no way a club with sub 40k members is constantly posting profit margins each year for basically the life of the huddle. Without it the club would probably be in tassie already. Other clubs that aren't struggling financially wouldn't have had to give up venue space or facilities to such a program but its basically kept the club alive.
 

Soft Downhill Skier

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There was a year I didn't have Foxtel.

So I'd venture down to a pub in North Melbourne (within a few blocks of Arden St) to watch us. Never saw more than 10 people in there.

Even when I drive through there in peak hour, there's no traffic or parking issues. It's just not attractive for consumer or hospitality traffic.
 

Sillygit

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I'm not disagreeing with you. My belief is that money spent on the facilities there by the club should be on the training/gym equipment, moveable furnishings, IT equipment etc. In other words the assets, which if the unthinkable were to occur and the club was forced to relocate in Melbourne or interstate, that the club can take with them. But I stand resolved that the club should not spend a brass razoo of it's limited funds on a building complex that it leases.
I can't believe I'm reading someone who would want to move us back to portables.
 

The Y Factor

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I'm not disagreeing with you. My belief is that money spent on the facilities there by the club should be on the training/gym equipment, moveable furnishings, IT equipment etc. In other words the assets, which if the unthinkable were to occur and the club was forced to relocate in Melbourne or interstate, that the club can take with them. But I stand resolved that the club should not spend a brass razoo of it's limited funds on a building complex that it leases.
Ok but it very normal for businesses to invest in the building.

In fact I just drank at a bar last week and the guy had spent God knows how much money on refurbishing the entire place during shut down. I assume a long lease but he’s not taking that anywhere!

I believe North have a virtually endless arrangement like a 99 year lease or similar type arrangement so I think you should feel confident that it not wasted money.
 
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DrZaius

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I can't believe I'm reading someone who would want to move us back to portables.
There seem to be some members that genuinely want us to stay as this handicapped battler club with sub par facilities and poor membership, so long as they can get their social club to drink at with 6 other old timers. Bizarre.
 

Hearts to hearts

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I'm inclined to agree with you. Arden Street HQ these days is effectively an office block with 3 sets of changerooms and a gym next to an oval which I would bet that nobody in the community of North Melbourne is actually permitted to use, which makes a mockery of the whole "developing for community use" pitch that is often used as the prime argument to secure government funding. Of course ATM clubs hae discovered a new cash cow ... "AFLW". AFL clubs only have to put "women's changerooms" in a grant submission and that's a guaranteed $10 mil in the bank. They've all done it, not just North Melbourne. Yes much these dayis being driven by the new culture of wokeism (with Dan Andrews leading the charge on that front), but I don't think it's as detrimental to the club perhaps as you have suggested.

While we can't do anything about who governs the City of Melbourne at Council level, who governs Melbourne in pragmatic terms is of no interest to me and that is the decision of the residents and ratepayers of Melbourne to make. But we come back to our original point that the club as a private business enterprise should not be spending one cent of it's money, and it was wrong of the club to appeal to its members back in 2018 to donate some $2.5 million towards bricks and mortar for a Melbourne City Council property asset. One asks, isn't the Melbourne City Council already the richest in terms of its income, assets and cash reserves in Victoria?
I’ve spent a fair bit of time with groups training on the oval at Arden St in the past 18 months. Big treat for me but for most people it’s just a very nice oval.
 

Tas

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I'm inclined to agree with you. Arden Street HQ these days is effectively an office block with 3 sets of changerooms and a gym next to an oval which I would bet that nobody in the community of North Melbourne is actually permitted to use, which makes a mockery of the whole "developing for community use" pitch that is often used as the prime argument to secure government funding. Of course ATM clubs hae discovered a new cash cow ... "AFLW". AFL clubs only have to put "women's changerooms" in a grant submission and that's a guaranteed $10 mil in the bank. They've all done it, not just North Melbourne. Yes much these dayis being driven by the new culture of wokeism (with Dan Andrews leading the charge on that front), but I don't think it's as detrimental to the club perhaps as you have suggested.

While we can't do anything about who governs the City of Melbourne at Council level, who governs Melbourne in pragmatic terms is of no interest to me and that is the decision of the residents and ratepayers of Melbourne to make. But we come back to our original point that the club as a private business enterprise should not be spending one cent of it's money, and it was wrong of the club to appeal to its members back in 2018 to donate some $2.5 million towards bricks and mortar for a Melbourne City Council property asset. One asks, isn't the Melbourne City Council already the richest in terms of its income, assets and cash reserves in Victoria?
The gym, pool, spas, change rooms are available to the public, with a membership and they have casual rates if you just want to use it sporadically. Is it free to use? No.

The office space isn't for public use, there are tenants such as our club, Fencing Victoria and at times others lease some of the space.

I think if you lived in the area and you wanted to use public gym or pools then them being constantly redeveloped to ensure they are of the highest standard is also in their interest as well.

The facilities are our property, they appear in our financial statements. I don't think anything we raised went anywhere other than to the facilities we own.

We really have very little to gain to push to get the lifetime lease converted into a transfer of asset other than removing the tie we have with the government which has helped us to fund every single redevelopment on the site.

I do not feel there are any sane reasons to be against the relationship we have with the government and the North Melbourne Recreation Reserve.
 

Kangaroos4eva

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I appreciate some of SB’s points on being wary of politicians (who isn’t), political funding coming with strings and politically active individuals pushing a particular agenda at the club level.

However, active community engagement has a number of intangible benefits that can be difficult to measure. If we continue to broaden our community programs in an expanding residential/commercial area over the next 20 years, I believe that we should see sizeable member number returns. Even looking at local demographics, many locals are first or second generation migrants. You need engagement, sporting days, education and open club days to turn those recent immigrants and their kids into life members. This is why any Arden St development should prioritise member and community engagement.

I know it is hard to measure any tangible returns because we don’t have the hard data, but you have to play the community card to get government funding. Same with AFLW as the government is forking out plenty for clubs with strong female footy links. You have to play the politics card and submit 150 page proposals. I don’t like a few of the specific aspects of this process, but we do need some help to expand the club without dipping too heavily into member pockets.

At the end of the day, we all want a strong, prosperous and sustainable NMFC located at Arden Street. I also want equal opportunities for female players in case I have a daughter that is good enough to play for our great club one day.
 

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The Y Factor

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I’ve become bored of this discussion, it’s totally derailed and more about different opinions as to the best way to manage the club with strong individual opinions.

I don’t understand the extreme push back on the club being strongly committed to working within its local refugee/ immigrant population - it is its local community and has been for a long time. Organisations that don’t work with their community - don’t succeed as a valued community member.

describing it as “wokeism” or whatever is dismissive of the reality of the community, the time we live in and the reality of the world in 2010-2030

the values of the club are consistent by way of no gambling in sponsorship, strong commitment to the AFLW/VFLW

in all these areas north has been a leader and we read the tea leaves of the world and expectations of younger generations much earlier than the rest of the league.

What would happen if we walked away from the Huddle/ W/gambling/community first strategy - the club would create a new strategic direction for Marketing/ membership/Sponsorship with new organisational values and life would go on but itsnot Going to happen.

Personally I think the club did take its eye off the premiership for a period as survival and recovery from the 2007 saga directed all energy into a period of stabilisation, debt reduction, establishing new facilities, licences and a safe secure base. I don’t believe we took our eye off the ball due to focusing on an inclusive agenda but can see how other may feel that way - it’s far more complex and denies the up side of that approach.

This has disillusioned some fans as has the transition from a hard nosed working class club to an inner city modern club - I have one or two friends in this group

Enter the new era.

More confident, able to take some risks, strong strategic plan that includes stage 2 Arden redevelopment, the Arden precinct growth and development, zero debt , strong language about a Tasmanian cap, wild list renewal.

The are some outstanding issues in member servicing - facilities at the club for member engagement, actual details of memberships etc.

The club has made significant effort this year to deal with these issues and I am confident they are at least aware of this issue.

anyhow, I’m now out for this thread, that’s my 2 cents

overall I am more engaged now with the club and Arden St than I have been in many years

I still want a cafe that serves beers and preferably a club room above the oval on the wing! Like Sandy and Werribee.
 
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Roogal

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I can't believe I'm reading someone who would want to move us back to portables.
Don't you misquote me! The current Arden Street venue was entirely funded in its first stage back in 2012 by the GOVERNMENT as it should all be as it sits on Crown Land.

Now in 2018 under guise of "ARDEN: Forever Home of the Shinboners". Quote this, this is straight from the NMFC website, it's indisputable that the last $10 million upgrade was funded by the membership and club private donors. Heavens, you couldn't be that gullible? Anybody trying to justify the club privately funding development at Arden Street is no different to somebody renting a Commission House and taking out a bank loan to fund extensions and improvements to it because they plan to live in their rented home for a long time. That's the gist of it, now do you see how sucked in and exploited we've been? People's emotions and loyalty have been played upon by use of words like "Forever" and "Shinboner Spirit". I would suggest that there are some deeply pragmatic business people down at Arden Street running the Club with about as much "Shinboner Spirit" as Caroline Wilson. But, hey read this, it's straight from the club's website and remember that this was ALL done on Crown Land .... read on:

6th July 2018 - https://www.nmfc.com.au/news/261419/arden-st-redevelopment-

"North Melbourne has launched a fundraising campaign to help bankroll a $10 million redevelopment of its Arden Street headquarters it says is essential for it to attract big-name trade targets and free agents.

North is advanced in its preparations for the redevelopment, which will transform its home ground into a match-ready venue ahead of the club's entry into the AFLW in 2019, but is seeking to raise $2.5 million from club supporters to help finance the project.

North Melbourne chairman Ben Buckley told a gathering of prominent North supporters on Wednesday night that the redevelopment was a "once-in-a-generation opportunity" that would help the club cement its long-term future at Arden St.

"We really need the support of our major benefactors to come on board and help us take the next step forward as a footy club and keep pace with the rest of the competition, both here in Melbourne and right across the country," Buckley said.

The Kangaroos have been ambitious players in the trade and free agency markets in recent seasons. But after landing free agents Nick Dal Santo (2013), Jarrad Waite and Shaun Higgins (both 2014), they have come up short in big-money plays for rival stars such as Dustin Martin, Josh Kelly, Adam Treloar, Isaac Heeney and Dan Hannebery.

Coach Brad Scott said the club's ability to attract rival stars would take a hit if the redevelopment didn't proceed.

"We're a growing club and we're expanding and the facility is a key component of that, not just for the current players who are here but for prospective free agents and players from other clubs who look at North Melbourne and prospective players come and look at the facilities number one," Scott said.

"If they see a great facility they think that translates straight into on-field performance and it's hard to argue with that."

The proposed Arden St redevelopment will include the following game-day and training facilities:

- A second change room for visiting teams, and two umpire change rooms
- Expanded warm-up areas
- A match-day centre Coaches, stats, media and timekeeper boxes
- A state-of-the-art scoreboard
- An additional medical room
- Upgraded oval lighting for training
- Office space for the club's new AFLW, VFLW and VFL staff, and new facilities for AFL staff, including a video review room and media studio.

North is hoping the redevelopment will just be the first stage of a large-scale revamp that transforms its Arden St base into the biggest inner-city training complex in Melbourne.

The Kangaroos' long-term vision is tied into the Victorian Government's proposed multi-billion-dollar transformation of the industrial areas surrounding the club's headquarters.

Under the government's plans, the newly created Macaulay and Arden precincts will become largely residential areas centred around a new underground train station, with the local community expected to attract 40,000 new residents.

Last year, the Kangaroos submitted plans to the government's planning authority in which its Arden St home's footprint would grow from 4.5ha to 11.2ha and be upgraded to include:

- An indoor gym and sports centre with a large synthetic oval
- A second indoor centre with four multi-use hard courts
- An indoor aquatic centre with a 50m pool
- Sports change rooms and social rooms
- An outdoor synthetic oval with lighting
- A café and other shops."


Now, if you want to live in a Commission House and spend your money extending it and making improvements to it, then you'd be a fool. Why is this any different? North had other options but chose to stay in Melbourne in 2007 and I fully supported that. The club had to make choices and if that meant that it is reliant on government funding to expand the facilities that it leases in Melbourne then that's a compromise that they were willing to accept back in 2007. When you read the article above, they never attracted the top name players anyway, so again, their arguments to privately fund the 2018 development was predicated on misconceptions and emotions.

Have you ever asked yourselves why the AFL doesn't put a cent back into development of its club franchises for their facility development? It's because they all sit on Crown Land. The only stadiums that the AFL invest in are the MCG (to effectively buy 30 years exclusive access outside the cricket months) and Marvel Stadium which it owns.
 
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Roogal

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Like old times, agree to disagree before we further derail the thread.

So back on the topic of a grandstand, or something similar. Looking at the precinct map, I’m not sure we can put up anything meaningful to generate sizeable crowds.
Oh how good would it be to have a grand stand and even a club or bar built adjacent to the ground fashioned to look like an old gasometer. Perhaps it could even be called the 'Gasometer' ... I'm being whimsical.
 

Kangaroos4eva

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Oh how good would it be to have a grand stand and even a club or bar built adjacent to the ground fashioned to look like an old gasometer. Perhaps it could even be called the 'Gasometer' ... I'm being whimsical.
Yea, as others had stated earlier, the problem is with a bar or food vendors, they need consistent business or foot traffic throughout the year. Unless we have temporary vendors or something like that.
 

Roogal

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Yea, as others had stated earlier, the problem is with a bar or food vendors, they need consistent business or foot traffic throughout the year. Unless we have temporary vendors or something like that.
No I'm not saying build it now, but how good would it be once the area develops. Newer residents can then embrace a connection to the old.
 

Heaps of fun

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The world is changing and people think the club won't have to change with it. For good or bad everything changes. Woke Capitalism is real and the NMFC engages with it. I'm not a fan but then again I'm not a fan of mineral extraction. I do realise however that without it I wouldn't be living a pampered first world life and so I wouldn't have it any other way.

Ignoring the financial opportunity that community outreach and supporting social causes offer would be like letting the chance to invest in oil drilling in 1900 go past. Ultimately whether you like it or not the market dictates the flow of history. I'd rather the club float on than try to moor itself and be torn apart by the raging current. Just as I would rather live in a three bedroom house and drive a car than live under a piece of sheet iron and walk 12km a day to get water.
 

Devington

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The world is changing and people think the club won't have to change with it. For good or bad everything changes. Woke Capitalism is real and the NMFC engages with it. I'm not a fan but then again I'm not a fan of mineral extraction. I do realise however that without it I wouldn't be living a pampered first world life and so I wouldn't have it any other way.

Ignoring the financial opportunity that community outreach and supporting social causes offer would be like letting the chance to invest in oil drilling in 1900 go past. Ultimately whether you like it or not the market dictates the flow of history. I'd rather the club float on than try to moor itself and be torn apart by the raging current. Just as I would rather live in a three bedroom house and drive a car than live under a piece of sheet iron and walk 12km a day to get water.
Personally I think it would be nice if clubs could exist, even thrive, without tethering themselves to anything outside of the sport. But that's not the world we live in, and people need to accept that. Thankfully I think most have.
 

Egga

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The world is changing and people think the club won't have to change with it. For good or bad everything changes. Woke Capitalism is real and the NMFC engages with it. I'm not a fan but then again I'm not a fan of mineral extraction. I do realise however that without it I wouldn't be living a pampered first world life and so I wouldn't have it any other way.

Ignoring the financial opportunity that community outreach and supporting social causes offer would be like letting the chance to invest in oil drilling in 1900 go past. Ultimately whether you like it or not the market dictates the flow of history. I'd rather the club float on than try to moor itself and be torn apart by the raging current. Just as I would rather live in a three bedroom house and drive a car than live under a piece of sheet iron and walk 12km a day to get water.
Seeing the validity of multiple perspectives?

Extraordinary!
:)
 

Roogal

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The world is changing and people think the club won't have to change with it. For good or bad everything changes. Woke Capitalism is real and the NMFC engages with it. I'm not a fan but then again I'm not a fan of mineral extraction. I do realise however that without it I wouldn't be living a pampered first world life and so I wouldn't have it any other way.

Ignoring the financial opportunity that community outreach and supporting social causes offer would be like letting the chance to invest in oil drilling in 1900 go past. Ultimately whether you like it or not the market dictates the flow of history. I'd rather the club float on than try to moor itself and be torn apart by the raging current. Just as I would rather live in a three bedroom house and drive a car than live under a piece of sheet iron and walk 12km a day to get water.
True words. It's called pragmatism. :think:
 

Lomas

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I'm pretty excited by how the proposed upgrade seems to be tracking. The recent grant received only further encourages my belief that the state government will be onside with involving us more significantly in the precinct upgrade.
Every grant we get for AFLW/VFL/Huddle enables us to become a better club overall. Better facilities speak for themselves, increased teams leads to more staff to support the players across the board, and the administration benefit that comes through multiple funding streams ultimately helps us to get, and retain, great people to run the club.
It's not as simple as looking at direct benefits for the AFL senior team. There are flow on benefits that help everyone and will, hopefully, ensure we remain viable on and off the field.

edit: the above was something I had drafted in response to another poster just before the thread was shut down. I am a big supporter of the AFLW/VFL and Huddle as well as the AFL team.
 
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