Toast Ross Lyon returns to St.Kilda #UnfinishedBusiness

[Atomboy]

Nope you're too old and losing it.

Dawson played 6 games for us before he came up against Rocca.
Rocca only played 4 games that year ( his final ). He kicked zero, 1,1, and 2.

Zac's game he kicked 1. So a bit like someone pantsing Kosi in 2013.

Rocca kicked 2 in the QF against us, but Zac wasn't playinig.
His 8 against the Hawks in 2006 is the most goals he ever kicked in a game.

Close but no cigar.

I remember the build up to that game, and it was great to see Dawson get some redemption.

 

[tomjoad]

I'm a fan but Jimmy's lost a yard of pace and is on the downhill, and l hope Leo is given opportunity to take the spot.

JWeb, seemed a bit of of touch last year in general I thought (he wasn't the only one though and was still solid) I still reckon he'll hold a spot, and with more clarity around game plan etc, will be more than useful.
I'm also all for Connelly getting a good run of games too. The kid definitely has traits worth investing in.

 

[sauce_head]

Ross, Harvey, Hayes, Goddard - jeez this is starting to get a bit cult like, with some weird "Back to the Future" mentality going on.

Next we'll be getting Holden as a major sponsor and all the players will be driving around in 2009 Commodore's so they can feel the vibe as well.

That would be so cool!

 

[sunny3193]

I don't think the ex players thing is Lyon though. We were targeting them before he came. Hayes was already signed on. Most coaches have a trusted set of assistants and support staff they want to bring along. Part of getting an experienced coach is bringing in a system that has already been used. Lyon has earned the right to ask for particular people to perform the function of his job because he's already shown past results. I don't think getting a mate in to do list management with no experience is the same as thing as getting an experienced coach coming with his people

Neither went through an independent process of any rigour, which is my point.
Criticise the outcomes for sure, but the processes are essentially the same.

 

[sunny3193]

Huge difference
Lyon got the gig because he was the best coach out there has a proven track record in the job
4 Grand Finals
57.1 winning % over 60 % at StKilda
Every single GOOD coach will take his own team into the job with him
Many would argue Lyon was clearly the best coach out there
he would've got the Bombers job if he wanted it

Misson clearly a leader in his field and highly regarded

Clear difference to what has happened in the past few years

Huge difference??
No, process is exactly the same.
Walsh, Lyon, Hayes, Harvey, Goddard all got their gigs via networking, or blokes knowing blokes.
Which is what you have been critical about with Lethlean and his choice of Gallagher.

You can argue this on outcomes (you think Gallagher is no good) but not process.

Remember: Lethlean is involved with both sets of recruitment, and he has done a similar job of networking (or nepotism, depending how you look at it) with both.

 

[sunny3193]

It makes no sense to be a football club and be s**t at the primary directive of being a successful Football club.

But instead…. be great commercially.

Everything we do should be with an intense focus on being the best football side in the country.

Even playing finals regularly would be fantastic for commercial purposes. Because without it, there is little commercial success.

The 2 decades (roughly) we achieved success of being a successful football side. We won a flag or went close in multiple grand finals.

Commercial success has yet to see us win a flag.

Yes it has.

 

[StFly]

Nah
Gallaghers previous experience ?

Baking for TPP management and asset acquisition and management.



Networking.
Networking.
Asset management x2
Banking.
Networking about banking.
Asset management.
Asset management.
Open ended cultural instance.

Gags previous;
Played some footy for the Crows & Norwood.
Joined a couple of banks.
Was touted for networking, data and planning interpretations.

So essentially, most of what defined the listing for our head of list management which is where that snippet was taken from.

We get it, really, but head of List isn't the one usually doing the footwork, just the sign off on things with conjunction with others, hence the plethora of networking things involving other departments, including third party.

 

[SteeleSaints]

Neither went through an independent process of any rigour, which is my point.
Criticise the outcomes for sure, but the processes are essentially the same.

How much rigour do you think McRae's assistants went through? They were all hand picked by McRae or Wright. They knew what they wanted and went and got them, just as RTB and Walsh have done.

 

[gringo2011]

Huge difference??
No, process is exactly the same.
Walsh, Lyon, Hayes, Harvey, Goddard all got their gigs via networking, or blokes knowing blokes.
Which is what you have been critical about with Lethlean and his choice of Gallagher.

You can argue this on outcomes (you think Gallagher is no good) but not process.

Remember: Lethlean is involved with both sets of recruitment, and he has done a similar job of networking (or nepotism, depending how you look at it) with both.

Except that all were either experienced in coaching or starting in junior roles. Lethlean got a mate with zero experience in an extremely important role. We had said that we wanted to attract ex players a couple of years ago and had actually planned to find people with an invested interest. I think it's quite different personally.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Close but no cigar.

I remember the build up to that game, and it was great to see Dawson get some redemption.

Dawson was drafted with pick 13 by St Kilda in the 2008 rookie draft. He was promoted to the senior team for Round 1 in 2009 due to injuries to other players and played the first 16 games in an undefeated side until being reported for rough conduct in Round 16 and suspended for two matches.​

Zac Dawson - Essendon Doutta Stars - GameDay

Zac Dawson - Essendon Doutta Stars - GameDay, fixtures, results, ladders, statistics, news and events for the Essendon Doutta Stars Football Club, on GameDay, the Home of Grassroots Sport

websites.mygameday.app

I...want that ...goddam Cigar.

 

[AirWinmar]

Agree, Sincs is absolutely elite at what he does.

He is also very good offensively and defensively.

He may make an ok mid, but he is an out and out gun across hbf.

In part as he reads the game so beautifully, and secondly as then makes very good decisions, and lastly as he then executes so well and decisively.

It'd be pretty sweet if he became a gun mid tho. Has great attributes for it and would help the team more

 

[Atomboy]

Dawson was drafted with pick 13 by St Kilda in the 2008 rookie draft. He was promoted to the senior team for Round 1 in 2009 due to injuries to other players and played the first 16 games in an undefeated side until being reported for rough conduct in Round 16 and suspended for two matches.​

Zac Dawson - Essendon Doutta Stars - GameDay

Zac Dawson - Essendon Doutta Stars - GameDay, fixtures, results, ladders, statistics, news and events for the Essendon Doutta Stars Football Club, on GameDay, the Home of Grassroots Sport

websites.mygameday.app

I...want that ...goddam Cigar.

I meant that I was close. Memory is fading with time as you note….

Always thought Dawson was unfairly maligned but still would have loved Maxie to play in the 09 GF. At the very least it would have stopped him going to the Pies the following year with all our IP.

 

[sammm]

No they are thinking that the Saints "might" get Conor McKenna.

Girlfriend on Conor McKenna’s mind as four AFL clubs wait on ‘tough decision’

The former Bomber toured St Kilda on Friday, but another club is seen as the frontrunner.

7news.com.au

sorry, my bad, got confused

 

[Grav]

Dawson was drafted with pick 13 by St Kilda in the 2008 rookie draft. He was promoted to the senior team for Round 1 in 2009 due to injuries to other players and played the first 16 games in an undefeated side until being reported for rough conduct in Round 16 and suspended for two matches.​

Zac Dawson - Essendon Doutta Stars - GameDay

Zac Dawson - Essendon Doutta Stars - GameDay, fixtures, results, ladders, statistics, news and events for the Essendon Doutta Stars Football Club, on GameDay, the Home of Grassroots Sport

websites.mygameday.app

I...want that ...goddam Cigar.

KAPOW!!!

 

[sunny3193]

Commercial success has yet to see us win a flag.

Sorry stavro#4 , I responded to your post a few days ago with great brevity.
Like: “Yes, it has”. but meant to follow up with some history for you.
It’s the weekend now, so here it is.

From the inception of the VFL to the late 60’s, a club’s business model was built around gate takings. The home club kept 100%.
So, if a club controlled it’s ground, could attract significant and consistent home attendances, and retained 100% of it’s gate takings, then it had a virtuous circle that almost guaranteed success.
Needless to say, this was NOT the business model of the STKFC for the first 67 years of VFL existence.
Poor performance beget poor attendance, the St Kilda demographic catchment was relatively under developed wrt the inner city well populated enclaves of Richmond, Collingwood, Carlton, Fitzroy and Melbourne, and we were tenants to the cricket club and never retained 100% of the gate takings.
We know that, and we know the reasons behind moving from the Junction to Moorabbin.
But your original post indicated to me that you (a very knowledgeable and committed supporter) had no understanding of the actuality of that Moorabbin move.
And if you didn’t know, odds are very few of the other posters do either.
Add to that your (relative) youth.

So here are some hard numbers for you from 1966:

Total income = $96,645 (Club record)

Total profit = $ 8,489 (Club record)

Total Membership = 11,084 (Club record)

Commercial success and premiership success were very much hand in glove that year.

Finally, the Club had implemented a sustainable business model that the larger and more successful clubs had enjoyed for the prior 65 years.

What changed?

In the late 60’s the VFL moved away from the model that had sustained it, and was the basis of its formation, for the prior 70 years and implemented a gate takings sharing model in order to fund Waverley.

That condemned us to pauper hood nearly to this day.

Note: that profit of $ 8,489 sounds insignificant but in today’s world that would be the equivalent of the Club reporting a $4mill profit.

 

[sunny3193]

Except that all were either experienced in coaching or starting in junior roles. Lethlean got a mate with zero experience in an extremely important role. We had said that we wanted to attract ex players a couple of years ago and had actually planned to find people with an invested interest. I think it's quite different personally.

We agree to disagree. Not worth bogging down a thread with that.
I still love you

 

[austinnn]

Sorry stavro#4 , I responded to your post a few days ago with great brevity.
Like: “Yes, it has”. but meant to follow up with some history for you.
It’s the weekend now, so here it is.

From the inception of the VFL to the late 60’s, a club’s business model was built around gate takings. The home club kept 100%.
So, if a club controlled it’s ground, could attract significant and consistent home attendances, and retained 100% of it’s gate takings, then it had a virtuous circle that almost guaranteed success.
Needless to say, this was NOT the business model of the STKFC for the first 67 years of VFL existence.
Poor performance beget poor attendance, the St Kilda demographic catchment was relatively under developed wrt the inner city well populated enclaves of Richmond, Collingwood, Carlton, Fitzroy and Melbourne, and we were tenants to the cricket club and never retained 100% of the gate takings.
We know that, and we know the reasons behind moving from the Junction to Moorabbin.
But your original post indicated to me that you (a very knowledgeable and committed supporter) had no understanding of the actuality of that Moorabbin move.
And if you didn’t know, odds are very few of the other posters do either.
Add to that your (relative) youth.

So here are some hard numbers for you from 1966:

Total income = $96,645 (Club record)

Total profit = $ 8,489 (Club record)

Total Membership = 11,084 (Club record)

Commercial success and premiership success were very much hand in glove that year.

Finally, the Club had implemented a sustainable business model that the larger and more successful clubs had enjoyed for the prior 65 years.

What changed?

In the late 60’s the VFL moved away from the model that had sustained it, and was the basis of its formation, for the prior 70 years and implemented a gate takings sharing model in order to fund Waverley.

That condemned us to pauper hood nearly to this day.

Note: that profit of $ 8,489 sounds insignificant but in today’s world that would be the equivalent of the Club reporting a $4mill profit.

Thanks for this. I had read the basic idea before, but reading the facts like that gives me a far better perspective.

Unique history we have. That the club is even still here is a testament to the quality of Saints supporters

 

[Saintbloke]

Sorry stavro#4 , I responded to your post a few days ago with great brevity.
Like: “Yes, it has”. but meant to follow up with some history for you.
It’s the weekend now, so here it is.

From the inception of the VFL to the late 60’s, a club’s business model was built around gate takings. The home club kept 100%.
So, if a club controlled it’s ground, could attract significant and consistent home attendances, and retained 100% of it’s gate takings, then it had a virtuous circle that almost guaranteed success.
Needless to say, this was NOT the business model of the STKFC for the first 67 years of VFL existence.
Poor performance beget poor attendance, the St Kilda demographic catchment was relatively under developed wrt the inner city well populated enclaves of Richmond, Collingwood, Carlton, Fitzroy and Melbourne, and we were tenants to the cricket club and never retained 100% of the gate takings.
We know that, and we know the reasons behind moving from the Junction to Moorabbin.
But your original post indicated to me that you (a very knowledgeable and committed supporter) had no understanding of the actuality of that Moorabbin move.
And if you didn’t know, odds are very few of the other posters do either.
Add to that your (relative) youth.

So here are some hard numbers for you from 1966:

Total income = $96,645 (Club record)

Total profit = $ 8,489 (Club record)

Total Membership = 11,084 (Club record)

Commercial success and premiership success were very much hand in glove that year.

Finally, the Club had implemented a sustainable business model that the larger and more successful clubs had enjoyed for the prior 65 years.

What changed?

In the late 60’s the VFL moved away from the model that had sustained it, and was the basis of its formation, for the prior 70 years and implemented a gate takings sharing model in order to fund Waverley.

That condemned us to pauper hood nearly to this day.

Note: that profit of $ 8,489 sounds insignificant but in today’s world that would be the equivalent of the Club reporting a $4mill profit.

We're a pretty quirky club- apparently in the older days, financially struggling actors, writers and musos who lived around the area used to go down to Junction Oval and try to get a game, in order to get a couple of quid (pounds) in their pockets.

 

[stfan]

Thanks for this. I had read the basic idea before, but reading the facts like that gives me a far better perspective.

Unique history we have. That the club is even still here is a testament to the quality of Saints supporters

Yes the Saints were shafted by first the Waverley Stadium Deal deal, and then the Docklands Deal.


What really annoys me is that we basically were helping to pay off both assets, with most other clubs getting the same benefit as us (ie they become AFL assets) but without having the pay for it.

The Dons, while at Docklands, got a so called anchor tenant deal that generated good cashflow to them. But the other tenants there, including St Kilda, all got screwed.

Meanwhile other clubs got attractive deals at the MCG, including the Hawks. Or for example Cats who have had money showered on them (being a marginal political seat help them enormously) to maintain their Vic Bases there.

 

[sunny3193]

stavro#4 this doesn’t belong in this thread but seeing as I was endeavouring to share some history with you and the other posters, I thought it might be nice to share this aerial photo too. I have shared this previously with George
This is the first game at Moorabbin in 1965 (vs Collingwood), over 51,000 attendance.
And is taken looking towards the south west, South Road at the bottom of frame, Nepean Highway across the top. Notice how undeveloped is the area around the ground. Also, the outrageous parking: particularly along the South Road median.
If there was ever a photo which encapsulated the foresight and opportunity of the Moorabbin move, while also capturing the commercial success generated, this is it.

 

[malevu]

If things had ran their normal course and Ratts had got the bullet towards the end of next year, then three of the prime candidates would've been Lyon, Hayes and Harvey.

As it turns out we've fast tracked the 'process' and got all three of them. What's not to like about that?

 

[jwikked]

If things had ran their normal course and Ratts had got the bullet towards the end of next year, then three of the prime candidates would've been Lyon, Hayes and Harvey.

As it turns out we've fast tracked the 'process' and got all three of them. What's not to like about that?

Isn't it a huge relief we don't have to wait until the Bye (or later) next year for them to make a move on the coach? We went from a wasted 2023 to a fully productive year.

 

[sauce_head]

I never kept up with this thread ultimately. Did Ratten ever release anything to the supporters?

 

[Sun Ra]

I never kept up with this thread ultimately. Did Ratten ever release anything to the supporters?

Release the Ratts

 

[Dr Spaceman]

I never kept up with this thread ultimately. Did Ratten ever release anything to the supporters?

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