List Mgmt. Ross Lyon - Sacked

Is Ross still the man for the job?


  • Total voters
    328

salim malik

Brownlow Medallist
Jan 14, 2008
12,644
25,887
Paradise on Earth.
AFL Club
Fremantle
There is an interesting article on the AFL site re how injuries to best players effect a clubs season and the amount of injuries to major players effects a clubs ladder position.
Whether you love or hate Ross our season has again been derailed by injuries to key personal.
That fact cannot be denied, the medical and fitness staff have a lot to answer .
Please Freo a full review into all our fitness and medical team
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

malpaso

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 30, 2004
7,283
4,622
Melbourne
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
Chicago Bulls, Kansas City Royals
You are right, defenders never have a field day against Fremantle. But it's not the coaches fault we kick to the wrong spot year after year after year. I mean how can the coaching staff change that? They can't kick the ball themselves right?

Round 172017Shannon Hurn (1) (West Coast)
Round 62018Shannon Hurn (2) (West Coast)
Lachie Neale (3) (Fremantle)
Round 202018Elliot Yeo (1) (West Coast)
Round 42019Shannon Hurn (3) (West Coast)
Round 162019Brad Sheppard (1) (West Coast)
Carlisle did not win the game for STK. Your missing the point.
 

Taylor

Moderator
Jul 16, 2009
39,707
41,494
Perth
AFL Club
Fremantle
He really said that? I guess that confirms that it was 100% a coaching error then.
Do we win against Geelong without the focus on the attack at the ball and player? I don't think so.

So what you would prefer is that our team practice structure, intent, skills and goal shooting. Well great, so does everyone else. Unfortunately we don't have all the time in the world with them to do that.

That's the reason we can't change our game plan half way through the year either.
 

dont bowl there

Norm Smith Medallist
Jun 25, 2006
7,382
1,718
Melbourne
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
Atlanta Hawks, Birmingham City
Do we win against Geelong without the focus on the attack at the ball and player? I don't think so.

So what you would prefer is that our team practice structure, intent, skills and goal shooting. Well great, so does everyone else. Unfortunately we don't have all the time in the world with them to do that.

That's the reason we can't change our game plan half way through the year either.
You misunderstood what I was saying. My argument was with another poster who seemed to think that composure and late game tactics can't be coached, the quote directly from Lyon backed up what I was saying.

I'm not saying I disagree that Lyon is focussing on other areas but that poster saying he can't help what the players do late in games is incorrect and backed up directly from Lyons comments.
 

Fat Nyfe

Norm Smith Medallist
Mar 18, 2012
5,643
10,007
Melbourne
AFL Club
Fremantle
How many preseasons does it take to train skills? Would a different coach have trained Carter to hit that kick inboard to Conca?? Or what about the Duman handball that kept the ball in play that resulted in a goal.

In regards to kicking to Carlisle, does fatigue play a factor? Only happened in the last quarter where decision making was poor. Bloody Ross!!
Is the coach not responsible for teaching decision making, or training skills under fatigue? If you listened to half the people on this forum, you'd think Ross isn't actually responsible for anything.
 

malpaso

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 30, 2004
7,283
4,622
Melbourne
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
Chicago Bulls, Kansas City Royals
No you seem to think that players decisions late in games cant be coached which is so far off the mark it might as well be a Langdon kick inside 50.
Do you think Duman is coached to handball back in play instead of getting it out of bounds? Player decision right there.. Add some player execution errors as well but hey blame those on Ross as well..
 

raffrox

Norm Smith Medallist
Sep 4, 2004
9,094
5,705
Perth
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
Fremantle
The past is such a crutch for your arguments. We are playing kids because our list is kids and there are players our that he would prefer to play. If you refuse to believe that our list and game plans have changed then there is nothing that anyone can say to dissuade you. You will just keep rolling out 4 year old bulls**t.
Our list management strategy? What's that got to do with our current list? Who said anything about playing Ballas?
There are some absolute shockers in our team at the moment, we don't have alternatives.
What else do you base arguments on except past evidence? The future?

Interesting that the getting some of the 'shockers' in has actually got a bit of energy and passion into the team. I've seen getting some of the 'shockers' (your words not mine) in the team as a good thing. Guys that wouldn't have got a game.

Ballas was an emergency. He feasibly could have played on the weekend.

If what I'm saying is based in the past why the hell what he a remote consideration for the game yesterday? On the back of deadset average WAFL form as well.
 

dont bowl there

Norm Smith Medallist
Jun 25, 2006
7,382
1,718
Melbourne
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
Atlanta Hawks, Birmingham City
Do you think Duman is coached to handball back in play instead of getting it out of bounds? Player decision right there.. Add some player execution errors as well but hey blame those on Ross as well..
In short yes, I do think the way panic sets in is a coaching fault and was even apparently admitted by Lyon in the post match press conference.
 

Taylor

Moderator
Jul 16, 2009
39,707
41,494
Perth
AFL Club
Fremantle
You misunderstood what I was saying. My argument was with another poster who seemed to think that composure and late game tactics can't be coached, the quote directly from Lyon backed up what I was saying.

I'm not saying I disagree that Lyon is focussing on other areas but that poster saying he can't help what the players do late in games is incorrect and backed up directly from Lyons comments.
The comments about Lyon not being able to coach the tactics at the end? Lyon also said that he wanted an extra at the stoppage but it didn't happen, the players weren't positioned how he would want.

Or the skill errors?

We can coach the plan for late in tight games, but there is more going on than just that
 

raffrox

Norm Smith Medallist
Sep 4, 2004
9,094
5,705
Perth
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
Fremantle
Last Round: 3rd youngest side (us) against the 15th youngest side on their home deck. STK fans shouldn't be getting too buoyant about Ratten and their list..

Coupled with the fact that if we had 1 legitimate tall forward playing, Carlisle wouldn't have taken those 4 intercepts in the fourth quarter.
Carlisle did not win the game for STK. Your missing the point.
So what are you saying?
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Taylor

Moderator
Jul 16, 2009
39,707
41,494
Perth
AFL Club
Fremantle
Is the coach not responsible for teaching decision making, or training skills under fatigue? If you listened to half the people on this forum, you'd think Ross isn't actually responsible for anything.
The coach is responsible for training a style that copes with players skill drop off under pressure and fatigue. Most of that will be putting the right player down the line when the fatigued player will need the get out of jail kick.

Those players are currently watching games on the couch.
 

dont bowl there

Norm Smith Medallist
Jun 25, 2006
7,382
1,718
Melbourne
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
Atlanta Hawks, Birmingham City
The comments about Lyon not being able to coach the tactics at the end? Lyon also said that he wanted an extra at the stoppage but it didn't happen, the players weren't positioned how he would want.

Or the skill errors?

We can coach the plan for late in tight games, but there is more going on than just that
All of that ultimately boils down to how the team is trained and coached. We must be one of the only sports in the world where poor skills is blamed on the players and not the coaching staff. People seem to think AFL players have a certain skill level when drafted and thats them for life.
 

Taylor

Moderator
Jul 16, 2009
39,707
41,494
Perth
AFL Club
Fremantle
All of that ultimately boils down to how the team is trained and coached. We must be one of the only sports in the world where poor skills is blamed on the players and not the coaching staff. People seem to think AFL players have a certain skill level when drafted and thats them for life.
That is a by product of AFL football being a single market exclusive selection pool.

Soccer players at the highest level are all elite skilled because they get to choose the best of those for the teams.

AFL gets to choose from what we have. This again is the reason we need more early picks in our squad. Injury hits and we start reaching into the rookie draft to fill the void meanwhile at the national draft the highly skilled, fast, smart players are mostly gone by pick ten and the ones who are also elite athletes are gone by pick three.
 

dont bowl there

Norm Smith Medallist
Jun 25, 2006
7,382
1,718
Melbourne
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
Atlanta Hawks, Birmingham City
That is a by product of AFL football being a single market exclusive selection pool.

Soccer players at the highest level are all elite skilled because they get to choose the best of those for the teams.

AFL gets to choose from what we have. This again is the reason we need more early picks in our squad. Injury hits and we start reaching into the rookie draft to fill the void meanwhile at the national draft the highly skilled, fast, smart players are mostly gone by pick ten and the ones who are also elite athletes are gone by pick three.
That's great but I am not convinced Ross even cares about skills, there has been a pretty strong "effort is the key" throughout his tenure. Yet to see anything that tells me we would get the best out of those talented players with the set up we currently have.
 

dont bowl there

Norm Smith Medallist
Jun 25, 2006
7,382
1,718
Melbourne
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
Atlanta Hawks, Birmingham City
Inexperience causes panic, panic causes mistakes.
Experience is not coachable . Duman , Carter and Logue have what, 20 odd games between them.
This isn't game specific though is it. It's not like we are a highly skilled side even with the best 22 on the park.
 

Square Peg

Premiership Player
Jul 20, 2014
3,362
6,981
Fremantle WA
AFL Club
Fremantle
That's great but I am not convinced Ross even cares about skills, there has been a pretty strong "effort is the key" throughout his tenure. Yet to see anything that tells me we would get the best out of those talented players with the set up we currently have.
Quoted for accuracy. I am not seduced by skills, we bring great effort, etc.
This is what it boils down to. He is obviously a fantastic motivator, a smart guy but totally wedded to the idea that effort and defensive structure will beat skill.
 

Taylor

Moderator
Jul 16, 2009
39,707
41,494
Perth
AFL Club
Fremantle
a smart guy but totally wedded to the idea that effort and defensive structure will beat skill.
It will. Every time.

It won't beat the structured, high effort skillful team though.

The best thing about the skills is that when you're on top, they look way better. We were far less fumbly and the ball bounced in our favor against the Cats in the wet because we were on top and they sat their players back to react to that, our guys were able to run off the contest more.

There was a passage of play against the Saints where Brad Hill should have run on to get the ball again but didn't push into the space on the wing - he sat himself in the middle near his opponent because we had been turning it over so much he would have been well out of position and his opponent would have been able to be the extra in a scoring chain for them.

When it's good it looks really good, when it's bad it's bad and the players lose confidence - so they don't put in the work to make the kick a bit easier.

It's a tipping seesaw.
 

yakka man

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 27, 2010
23,010
14,096
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
Peel Thunder
There is an interesting article on the AFL site re how injuries to best players effect a clubs season and the amount of injuries to major players effects a clubs ladder position.
Whether you love or hate Ross our season has again been derailed by injuries to key personal.
That fact cannot be denied, the medical and fitness staff have a lot to answer .
Please Freo a full review into all our fitness and medical team
There needs to be a full review that it is not limited to a single field. Do you or anyone else know if we still have the same medical and fitness staff that we did under Mark Harvey? Weber was still there wasn't he? And the club doctor has been the same for as long as I can remember. Were injuries this bad under Mark Harvey? It must be a thorough review.
 

Top Bottom