List Mgmt. Ross Lyon - Sacked

[Square Peg]

The same people (or similar people) will then say that Lyon backed Harley in and overrode the footy department to demand he get a contract (similar has been said of him demanding Hogan be traded in). He doesn't want Harley or Hogan because they bring great effort, he wants them playing because they are highly skilled.
So depending on the day, he doesn't value skills or wants to override people to bring in skills.

LOL that's up there with the biggest fake news.
You know why he wanted Harley? The same reason he wanted Lovett at the saints, the same reason he creams himself over Stephen Hill. He honestly reckons you can win an AFL game with six guys that can play and sixteen that bring great effort.

 

[Tyler from Fremantle]

Inexperience causes panic, panic causes mistakes.
Experience is not coachable . Duman , Carter and Logue have what, 20 odd games between them.

What do you think training and coaching is? Training people on the track in areas of inexperience and weakness so that they become experienced in those situations and are comfortable, composed, skilled etc is literally the definition of coaching.

Match day is just repeating and executing what you train.

 

[Joao]

What do you think training and coaching is? Training people on the track in areas of inexperience and weakness so that they become experienced in those situations and are comfortable, composed, skilled etc is literally the definition of coaching.

Match day is just repeating and executing what you train.

By that definition you are saying it is possible to train someone to the point where they are as good as a player who has played 150 games yeah?

 

[kingswood71]

Where's the link for that quote.

Ross Lyon Q&A - extended edition

Chief footy writer Mark Duffield sits down with the Freo coach ahead of a big year.

thewest.com.au

 

[Tyler from Fremantle]

By that definition you are saying it is possible to train someone to the point where they are as good as a player who has played 150 games yeah?

That's not what I'm saying at all, but sure, if you want to twist the scenario, then absolutely the principle still stands.

Otherwise it would be like arguing that NASA can't ever train people to be astronauts.

 

[Joao]

That's not what I'm saying at all, but sure, if you want to twist the scenario, then absolutely the principle still stands.

Otherwise it would be like arguing that NASA can't ever train people to be astronauts.

That's exactly what you said. You don't need matchday experience because you can train it. That is frankly absurd and there are literally no examples of that being the case.

Your NASA analogy is worse. First of all, players are still players even before they play a game, or at the very least the moment they step onto the field. Nobody said you if you don't train you can't play, which is what your analogy was.

Secondly, are you now going to tell me that astronauts don't learn anything whilst on an actual mission that they don't already know from training? If you are, don't because there is only so much ridiculous I can take for one day.

 

[salim malik]

QUOTE="Tyler from Fremantle, post: 62284381, member: 198408"]
That's not what I'm saying at all, but sure, if you want to twist the scenario, then absolutely the principle still stands.

Otherwise it would be like arguing that NASA can't ever train people to be astronauts.
[/QUOTE]


You don't start of as a young kid in a group training to be an astronaut.

 

[Paracleet]

With an actual forward line instead of

That's not what I'm saying at all, but sure, if you want to twist the scenario, then absolutely the principle still stands.

Otherwise it would be like arguing that NASA can't ever train people to be astronauts.

Haha please. That example literally supports the opposite of your point. You think NASA trains people to fly space ships? They all ready have all the requisite skills when they lob. If it was just plain flying skills tens of thousands of people could do it. The training is in process and also out to separate out those physically not able to cope and those who would s**t themselves under pressure and blow the lunar lander up.

 

[Scham]

Do the people who type "ross doesn't care about skills" really believe that.

You really think he is happy when players don't hit targets in the back line.

Sure he values effort but to say he doesn't care at all about skills is not fair.

I am sure the players practice their kicking but you will never recreate the pressure of a match in training.
Execution under pressure is an athlete's biggest hurdle and the only way you can work on it is in-game.

Go and tell Adam Simpson that he’s got it all wrong and he’s wasting time training skills and that he needs to be more like Ross. See how you go with that.

FMD!

 

[Tyler from Fremantle]

That's exactly what you said. You don't need matchday experience because you can train it. That is frankly absurd and there are literally no examples of that being the case.

That's not what I said at all, don't put words in my mouth. If you're not able to grasp the difference between what I said, and your misrepresentation, then that's unfortunate for you. And lay off the strawmen.

Your NASA analogy is worse. First of all, players are still players even before they play a game, or at the very least the moment they step onto the field. Nobody said you if you don't train you can't play, which is what your analogy was.

Again, it appears you're not able to grasp the issue at hand. Where are you coming up with this nonsense about not playing without training? In fact, where are you coming from with any of this drivvel? Players are still players and can play if they don't train?! What are you even talking about?

Secondly, are you now going to tell me that astronauts don't learn anything whilst on an actual mission that they don't already know from training? If you are, don't because there is only so much ridiculous I can take for one day.

I'm not telling you anything, you're going off on some absurdly nonsensical tangent which bears no resemblance whatsoever to anything I have said, and dragging me with you.

 

[Tyler from Fremantle]

With an actual forward line instead of
Haha please. That example literally supports the opposite of your point. You think NASA trains people to fly space ships? They all ready have all the requisite skills when they lob. If it was just plain flying skills tens of thousands of people could do it. The training is in process and also out to separate out those physically not able to cope and those who would s**t themselves under pressure and blow the lunar lander up.

No, it literally doesn't support the opposite of my point.

My point is skills used in the arena can be developed outside the arena, as supported by almost every single aspect of learning and development from riding with training wheels, to school/Uni or even being a footballer or bloody astronaut. This isn't open for debate, this is fact, no matter how wilfully obtuse you want to be .

Now, if you'd spare me your peabrained strawmen too, that would be great.

 

[vidwhal]

There needs to be a full review that it is not limited to a single field. Do you or anyone else know if we still have the same medical and fitness staff that we did under Mark Harvey? Weber was still there wasn't he? And the club doctor has been the same for as long as I can remember. Were injuries this bad under Mark Harvey? It must be a thorough review.

If I read it correctly, we've had the same club doc since inception.

On T10(E3C6) using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Whatname]

Go and tell Adam Simpson that he’s got it all wrong and he’s wasting time training skills and that he needs to be more like Ross. See how you go with that.

FMD!

Where was I saying training skills is a waste of time.

Just questioning the belief held by some on here that Ross doesn't care about skill development.

He probably hopes that most players have the fundamental skills when they get to the AFL.
Unfortunately with the appalling junior coaching in grassroots football most draftees need much more work in this area.

 

[Paracleet]

No, it literally doesn't support the opposite of my point.

My point is skills used in the arena can be developed outside the arena, as supported by almost every single aspect of learning and development from riding with training wheels, to school/Uni or even being a footballer or bloody astronaut. This isn't open for debate, this is fact, no matter how wilfully obtuse you want to be .

Now, if you'd spare me your peabrained strawmen too, that would be great.

Yet another account hey Clay? Very normal behaviour.

No reasonable person would dispute the arena skills can and are learned outside the arena. They don't have to dispute it since it wasn't the argument: Which was there was value in practising pure skills when you are the at pinnacle of your field and have already passed through multiple systems that were dedicated to the development of basic skills.
Would the players skills level improve if they trained more pure kicking, hand passing and taking shots on goal? Incrementally yes: but in a full time professional environment that training would have come at the expense game plan, match play, strength and fitness training and the clubs, all of them, not just ours, would seem to agree that's not how you win games of footy. Forget that crap about other clubs training extra skills as if it's bloody Albury C grade colts, until someone tallies it with a stop watch no-one will make me believe there is any significant difference in any clubs training ratios.

No why don't you toddle off and do something useful like learning what a strawman is.

 

[fnerd]

If you listened to half the people on this forum, you'd think Ross isn't actually responsible for anything.

And if you listened to the other half he’s responsible for everything

 

[Kram]

So common wisdom on here is apparently all West Coast do at training is mostly skills based and all we do is practice structures or something.

Next season can someone that's either retired, a part time student or on the dole with a heap of free time on their hands go down to both clubs training sessions all season with a notepad and actually confirm all this?

 

[fnerd]

What do you think training and coaching is? Training people on the track in areas of inexperience and weakness so that they become experienced in those situations and are comfortable, composed, skilled etc is literally the definition of coaching.

Match day is just repeating and executing what you train.

Lol
Ok m8

 

[Nothing]

LOL that's up there with the biggest fake news.
You know why he wanted Harley? The same reason he wanted Lovett at the saints, the same reason he creams himself over Stephen Hill. He honestly reckons you can win an AFL game with six guys that can play and sixteen that bring great effort.

Great, so you're admitting he values skills, even if it is only 6 players on the field. So we can stop this masquerade that he doesn't value skills.

 

[Square Peg]

Great, so you're admitting he values skills, even if it is only 6 players on the field. So we can stop this masquerade that he doesn't value skills.

There never was a masquerade from my perspective. Glad to see that you agree he only wants a few guys in his team to football. We are in furious agreement.

 

[Nothing]

There never was a masquerade from my perspective. Glad to see that you agree he only wants a few guys in his team to football. We are in furious agreement.

The extension of that, is do you think he would say no to 22 Hills, Fyfes, Harleys etc?

I think any coach wants as much skill as possible in the team, including Lyon. They also want that talent to put in effort otherwise it will amount to nothing. If you haven't got the taelnt, you build a structure to overcome those players with deficiencies.

 

[Square Peg]

The extension of that, is do you think he would say no to 22 Hills, Fyfes, Harleys etc?

I think any coach wants as much skill as possible in the team, including Lyon. They also want that talent to put in effort otherwise it will amount to nothing. If you haven't got the taelnt, you build a structure to overcome those players with deficiencies.

I remember hearing Desmond Tutu speak in the 1980's and he said a profound thing: when man sees the caterpillar, god sees the butterfly
Ross sees the caterpillar.

 

[Nothing]

I remember hearing Desmond Tutu speak in the 1980's and he said a profound thing: when man sees the caterpillar, god sees the butterfly
Ross sees the caterpillar.

Ok. He is not a deity. More agreement.

 

[Square Peg]

Ok. He is not a deity. More agreement.

What he meant was there is beauty in ugliness, like there are footy skills in all footballers. If only you let them shine and stop telling them they're ugly
Aw feck it, never mind.

 

[Tyler from Fremantle]

Yet another account hey Clay? Very normal behaviour.

Ok Troll. Maybe you should be focusing on the quality of your posts, not trolling others.

No reasonable person would dispute the arena skills can and are learned outside the arena.

So why are you?

They don't have to dispute it since it wasn't the argument: Which was there was value in practising pure skills when you are the at pinnacle of your field and have already passed through multiple systems that were dedicated to the development of basic skills.

And that argument is entirely logical. Being at the pinnacle of your field and already passing through multiple developmental systems doesn't make you magically immune to your output degrading. Skills, strength, fitness etc drop off if they're not upkept and they don't improve with simple upkeep. That doesn't just go for sport, but almost every aspect of life.

Our skills are not up to scratch (as supported by 7-8 seasons of terrible skills) so a higher emphasis needs to be placed on training them to improvement. Why is this a mind shattering concept for you Rossie Posse types?

Would the players skills level improve if they trained more pure kicking, hand passing and taking shots on goal? Incrementally yes: but in a full time professional environment that training would have come at the expense game plan, match play, strength and fitness training and the clubs, all of them, not just ours, would seem to agree that's not how you win games of footy.

Right, so if we need to prioritise a multitude of skills to develop, it makes sense that we place more prioroty on developing skills that arguably are our biggest drawback at the moment (and the past 7+ years). So now tell me, how high on Ross' list of prioroties do you think skill is? Then compare that with successful teams. Time and time again Lyon has made clear what traits he values the most, and sadly skill is a long way down the list.

And no, "the clubs, all of them" don't agree that piss poor skill and slow ball movement is how you win games of footy. We are apparantly the only team that values those metrics.

Forget that crap about other clubs training extra skills as if it's bloody Albury C grade colts, until someone tallies it with a stop watch no-one will make me believe there is any significant difference in any clubs training ratios.

If you're not able to understand that clubs value and focus on different aspects of the game, then I get the feeling that nothing anyone tells you will make a difference.

No why don't you toddle off and do something useful like learning what a strawman is.

I don't think I'll be taking advice from you about anything, guy, but thanks anyway.

 

[Tyler from Fremantle]

Lol
Ok m8

Yeah, I thought so.