List Mgmt. Ross Lyon - Sacked

Is Ross still the man for the job?


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Whatname

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Feb 17, 2011
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Do the people who type "ross doesn't care about skills" really believe that.

You really think he is happy when players don't hit targets in the back line.

Sure he values effort but to say he doesn't care at all about skills is not fair.

I am sure the players practice their kicking but you will never recreate the pressure of a match in training.
Execution under pressure is an athlete's biggest hurdle and the only way you can work on it is in-game.
 

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freddieflintoff

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RTB made his feelings on WA media well known.
Have a listen to Hackdorn on SenSA this morning. Without doubt the most onesided interview ive ever listen to. Praised the Eagles no end then payed out on Ross & club. This bloke must be No 1 ticket holder at Eagles and really hate Ross with a passion. Disgraceful from a reporter in prominate position in the media.
 

kingswood71

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Do the people who type "ross doesn't care about skills" really believe that.

You really think he is happy when players don't hit targets in the back line.

Sure he values effort but to say he doesn't care at all about skills is not fair.

I am sure the players practice their kicking but you will never recreate the pressure of a match in training.
Execution under pressure is an athlete's biggest hurdle and the only way you can work on it is in-game.
I think they kinda are holding onto a misquote when Ross said "When you get to AFL football you can work on your skill and execution but it is by degrees from there. Your core skill set takes about 10,000 hours to master. I have never been one to focus on skill level. We work on it and we acknowledge it but for whatever reason it crept into our vernacular and our coaching about execution of skill and we shifted away from things that you can control with effort, intensity".... Note, he said " We work on it and we acknowledge it"...somehow this has all been taken as "He doesnt teach skills".....He clearly points out that when a player reaches the AFL, they have a well developed skills set and any improvement is by degrees.
 

raffrox

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I wonder if all the other teams feel the same about Luke Ryan who is 3rd in total intercepts?
"Why do they keep bombing it to Ryan?!!!"
You do realize that players read the play and run to position right?....
If you can't see this as a constant failing of Ross coached teams nothing I say is going to change your mind.

It's been a pattern for a while.
 

tants

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Do the people who type "ross doesn't care about skills" really believe that.

You really think he is happy when players don't hit targets in the back line.

Sure he values effort but to say he doesn't care at all about skills is not fair.

I am sure the players practice their kicking but you will never recreate the pressure of a match in training.
Execution under pressure is an athlete's biggest hurdle and the only way you can work on it is in-game.
The same people (or similar people) will then say that Lyon backed Harley in and overrode the footy department to demand he get a contract (similar has been said of him demanding Hogan be traded in). He doesn't want Harley or Hogan because they bring great effort, he wants them playing because they are highly skilled.
So depending on the day, he doesn't value skills or wants to override people to bring in skills.
 

BlueE

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Oct 12, 2017
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I think they kinda are holding onto a misquote when Ross said "When you get to AFL football you can work on your skill and execution but it is by degrees from there. Your core skill set takes about 10,000 hours to master. I have never been one to focus on skill level. We work on it and we acknowledge it but for whatever reason it crept into our vernacular and our coaching about execution of skill and we shifted away from things that you can control with effort, intensity".... Note, he said " We work on it and we acknowledge it"...somehow this has all been taken as "He doesnt teach skills".....He clearly points out that when a player reaches the AFL, they have a well developed skills set and any improvement is by degrees.
Where's the link for that quote. RTB has stated many times publically that he doesn't teach skills, and players should be going to the park to practice them. "I have never been one to focus in skill level". The last time was after an inexplicable loss where he took the players to the beach for one of the training sessions that week. Then at the pressor blasted the players for poor skills!

The park is the worst place to practice skills in pressure situations, that is what the coach should be doing with training drills. Some of the coaches took the initiate and had extra training sessions for younger players last year. Don't think it's happening this year though. What passes as skill training for goal kicking is not much above a kick and giggle at Freo training and supports his mantra that with effort and intensity goals will follow. That's incorrect.

Pressure destroys skills and skills destroy pressure, if they're practiced in pressure situations.

It's what other successful AFL clubs do and what all other professional sports do and is not rated by Ross.
 
Jul 28, 2019
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Why would he need to change when he has the team he wants healthy and playing well? After that wins and form dictate a lot of things. I don't understand the change for change sake's argument..
Because that team will never be 100% fit, which means we need a plan B, and after nearly 15 years as a head coach, Ross is yet to come up with one.
 

Square Peg

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The same people (or similar people) will then say that Lyon backed Harley in and overrode the footy department to demand he get a contract (similar has been said of him demanding Hogan be traded in). He doesn't want Harley or Hogan because they bring great effort, he wants them playing because they are highly skilled.
So depending on the day, he doesn't value skills or wants to override people to bring in skills.
LOL that's up there with the biggest fake news.
You know why he wanted Harley? The same reason he wanted Lovett at the saints, the same reason he creams himself over Stephen Hill. He honestly reckons you can win an AFL game with six guys that can play and sixteen that bring great effort.
 
Jul 28, 2019
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Inexperience causes panic, panic causes mistakes.
Experience is not coachable . Duman , Carter and Logue have what, 20 odd games between them.
What do you think training and coaching is? Training people on the track in areas of inexperience and weakness so that they become experienced in those situations and are comfortable, composed, skilled etc is literally the definition of coaching.

Match day is just repeating and executing what you train.
 

Joao

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What do you think training and coaching is? Training people on the track in areas of inexperience and weakness so that they become experienced in those situations and are comfortable, composed, skilled etc is literally the definition of coaching.

Match day is just repeating and executing what you train.
By that definition you are saying it is possible to train someone to the point where they are as good as a player who has played 150 games yeah?
 

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Jul 28, 2019
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By that definition you are saying it is possible to train someone to the point where they are as good as a player who has played 150 games yeah?
That's not what I'm saying at all, but sure, if you want to twist the scenario, then absolutely the principle still stands.

Otherwise it would be like arguing that NASA can't ever train people to be astronauts.
 

Joao

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That's not what I'm saying at all, but sure, if you want to twist the scenario, then absolutely the principle still stands.

Otherwise it would be like arguing that NASA can't ever train people to be astronauts.
That's exactly what you said. You don't need matchday experience because you can train it. That is frankly absurd and there are literally no examples of that being the case.

Your NASA analogy is worse. First of all, players are still players even before they play a game, or at the very least the moment they step onto the field. Nobody said you if you don't train you can't play, which is what your analogy was.

Secondly, are you now going to tell me that astronauts don't learn anything whilst on an actual mission that they don't already know from training? If you are, don't because there is only so much ridiculous I can take for one day.
 

salim malik

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QUOTE="Tyler from Fremantle, post: 62284381, member: 198408"]
That's not what I'm saying at all, but sure, if you want to twist the scenario, then absolutely the principle still stands.

Otherwise it would be like arguing that NASA can't ever train people to be astronauts.
[/QUOTE]


You don't start of as a young kid in a group training to be an astronaut.:rolleyes:
 

Paracleet

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With an actual forward line instead of
That's not what I'm saying at all, but sure, if you want to twist the scenario, then absolutely the principle still stands.

Otherwise it would be like arguing that NASA can't ever train people to be astronauts.
Haha please. That example literally supports the opposite of your point. You think NASA trains people to fly space ships? They all ready have all the requisite skills when they lob. If it was just plain flying skills tens of thousands of people could do it. The training is in process and also out to separate out those physically not able to cope and those who would s**t themselves under pressure and blow the lunar lander up.
 

Scham

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Do the people who type "ross doesn't care about skills" really believe that.

You really think he is happy when players don't hit targets in the back line.

Sure he values effort but to say he doesn't care at all about skills is not fair.

I am sure the players practice their kicking but you will never recreate the pressure of a match in training.
Execution under pressure is an athlete's biggest hurdle and the only way you can work on it is in-game.
Go and tell Adam Simpson that he’s got it all wrong and he’s wasting time training skills and that he needs to be more like Ross. See how you go with that.

FMD!
 
Jul 28, 2019
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That's exactly what you said. You don't need matchday experience because you can train it. That is frankly absurd and there are literally no examples of that being the case.
That's not what I said at all, don't put words in my mouth. If you're not able to grasp the difference between what I said, and your misrepresentation, then that's unfortunate for you. And lay off the strawmen.

Your NASA analogy is worse. First of all, players are still players even before they play a game, or at the very least the moment they step onto the field. Nobody said you if you don't train you can't play, which is what your analogy was.
Again, it appears you're not able to grasp the issue at hand. Where are you coming up with this nonsense about not playing without training? In fact, where are you coming from with any of this drivvel? Players are still players and can play if they don't train?! What are you even talking about?

Secondly, are you now going to tell me that astronauts don't learn anything whilst on an actual mission that they don't already know from training? If you are, don't because there is only so much ridiculous I can take for one day.
I'm not telling you anything, you're going off on some absurdly nonsensical tangent which bears no resemblance whatsoever to anything I have said, and dragging me with you.
 
Last edited:
Jul 28, 2019
111
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With an actual forward line instead of
Haha please. That example literally supports the opposite of your point. You think NASA trains people to fly space ships? They all ready have all the requisite skills when they lob. If it was just plain flying skills tens of thousands of people could do it. The training is in process and also out to separate out those physically not able to cope and those who would s**t themselves under pressure and blow the lunar lander up.
No, it literally doesn't support the opposite of my point.

My point is skills used in the arena can be developed outside the arena, as supported by almost every single aspect of learning and development from riding with training wheels, to school/Uni or even being a footballer or bloody astronaut. This isn't open for debate, this is fact, no matter how wilfully obtuse you want to be .

Now, if you'd spare me your peabrained strawmen too, that would be great.
 

vidwhal

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There needs to be a full review that it is not limited to a single field. Do you or anyone else know if we still have the same medical and fitness staff that we did under Mark Harvey? Weber was still there wasn't he? And the club doctor has been the same for as long as I can remember. Were injuries this bad under Mark Harvey? It must be a thorough review.
If I read it correctly, we've had the same club doc since inception.

On T10(E3C6) using BigFooty.com mobile app
 

Whatname

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Go and tell Adam Simpson that he’s got it all wrong and he’s wasting time training skills and that he needs to be more like Ross. See how you go with that.

FMD!
Where was I saying training skills is a waste of time.

Just questioning the belief held by some on here that Ross doesn't care about skill development.

He probably hopes that most players have the fundamental skills when they get to the AFL.
Unfortunately with the appalling junior coaching in grassroots football most draftees need much more work in this area.
 

Paracleet

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No, it literally doesn't support the opposite of my point.

My point is skills used in the arena can be developed outside the arena, as supported by almost every single aspect of learning and development from riding with training wheels, to school/Uni or even being a footballer or bloody astronaut. This isn't open for debate, this is fact, no matter how wilfully obtuse you want to be .

Now, if you'd spare me your peabrained strawmen too, that would be great.
Yet another account hey Clay? Very normal behaviour.

No reasonable person would dispute the arena skills can and are learned outside the arena. They don't have to dispute it since it wasn't the argument: Which was there was value in practising pure skills when you are the at pinnacle of your field and have already passed through multiple systems that were dedicated to the development of basic skills.
Would the players skills level improve if they trained more pure kicking, hand passing and taking shots on goal? Incrementally yes: but in a full time professional environment that training would have come at the expense game plan, match play, strength and fitness training and the clubs, all of them, not just ours, would seem to agree that's not how you win games of footy. Forget that crap about other clubs training extra skills as if it's bloody Albury C grade colts, until someone tallies it with a stop watch no-one will make me believe there is any significant difference in any clubs training ratios.

No why don't you toddle off and do something useful like learning what a strawman is.
 

Kram

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So common wisdom on here is apparently all West Coast do at training is mostly skills based and all we do is practice structures or something.

Next season can someone that's either retired, a part time student or on the dole with a heap of free time on their hands go down to both clubs training sessions all season with a notepad and actually confirm all this?
 

fnerd

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What do you think training and coaching is? Training people on the track in areas of inexperience and weakness so that they become experienced in those situations and are comfortable, composed, skilled etc is literally the definition of coaching.

Match day is just repeating and executing what you train.
Lol
Ok m8
 

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