List Mgmt. Ross Lyon - Sacked

Is Ross still the man for the job?


  • Total voters
    328

tants

Norm Smith Medallist
Jul 30, 2009
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LOL that's up there with the biggest fake news.
You know why he wanted Harley? The same reason he wanted Lovett at the saints, the same reason he creams himself over Stephen Hill. He honestly reckons you can win an AFL game with six guys that can play and sixteen that bring great effort.
Great, so you're admitting he values skills, even if it is only 6 players on the field. So we can stop this masquerade that he doesn't value skills.
 

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Square Peg

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Great, so you're admitting he values skills, even if it is only 6 players on the field. So we can stop this masquerade that he doesn't value skills.
There never was a masquerade from my perspective. Glad to see that you agree he only wants a few guys in his team to football. We are in furious agreement.
 

tants

Norm Smith Medallist
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There never was a masquerade from my perspective. Glad to see that you agree he only wants a few guys in his team to football. We are in furious agreement.
The extension of that, is do you think he would say no to 22 Hills, Fyfes, Harleys etc?

I think any coach wants as much skill as possible in the team, including Lyon. They also want that talent to put in effort otherwise it will amount to nothing. If you haven't got the taelnt, you build a structure to overcome those players with deficiencies.
 

Square Peg

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The extension of that, is do you think he would say no to 22 Hills, Fyfes, Harleys etc?

I think any coach wants as much skill as possible in the team, including Lyon. They also want that talent to put in effort otherwise it will amount to nothing. If you haven't got the taelnt, you build a structure to overcome those players with deficiencies.
I remember hearing Desmond Tutu speak in the 1980's and he said a profound thing: when man sees the caterpillar, god sees the butterfly
Ross sees the caterpillar.
 
Jul 28, 2019
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Yet another account hey Clay? Very normal behaviour.
Ok Troll. Maybe you should be focusing on the quality of your posts, not trolling others.

No reasonable person would dispute the arena skills can and are learned outside the arena.
So why are you?

They don't have to dispute it since it wasn't the argument: Which was there was value in practising pure skills when you are the at pinnacle of your field and have already passed through multiple systems that were dedicated to the development of basic skills.
And that argument is entirely logical. Being at the pinnacle of your field and already passing through multiple developmental systems doesn't make you magically immune to your output degrading. Skills, strength, fitness etc drop off if they're not upkept and they don't improve with simple upkeep. That doesn't just go for sport, but almost every aspect of life.

Our skills are not up to scratch (as supported by 7-8 seasons of terrible skills) so a higher emphasis needs to be placed on training them to improvement. Why is this a mind shattering concept for you Rossie Posse types?


Would the players skills level improve if they trained more pure kicking, hand passing and taking shots on goal? Incrementally yes: but in a full time professional environment that training would have come at the expense game plan, match play, strength and fitness training and the clubs, all of them, not just ours, would seem to agree that's not how you win games of footy.
Right, so if we need to prioritise a multitude of skills to develop, it makes sense that we place more prioroty on developing skills that arguably are our biggest drawback at the moment (and the past 7+ years). So now tell me, how high on Ross' list of prioroties do you think skill is? Then compare that with successful teams. Time and time again Lyon has made clear what traits he values the most, and sadly skill is a long way down the list.

And no, "the clubs, all of them" don't agree that piss poor skill and slow ball movement is how you win games of footy. We are apparantly the only team that values those metrics.

Forget that crap about other clubs training extra skills as if it's bloody Albury C grade colts, until someone tallies it with a stop watch no-one will make me believe there is any significant difference in any clubs training ratios.
If you're not able to understand that clubs value and focus on different aspects of the game, then I get the feeling that nothing anyone tells you will make a difference.

No why don't you toddle off and do something useful like learning what a strawman is.
I don't think I'll be taking advice from you about anything, guy, but thanks anyway.
 

Bring back Drum

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Jul 8, 2019
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Where was I saying training skills is a waste of time.

Just questioning the belief held by some on here that Ross doesn't care about skill development.

He probably hopes that most players have the fundamental skills when they get to the AFL.
Unfortunately with the appalling junior coaching in grassroots football most draftees need much more work in this area.
I think calling junior coaches ‘appalling’ is not really understanding the role of a junior coach. Junior coaches are taught/encouraged to ensure the game is an enjoyable experience. A successful junior coach is marked on how many kids come to training & come back the next year.
Yes of course skills are taught & I hope the basics of good systems in defence, offence & contested ball.
The talent pathway coaches in today’s era are responsible for fine tuning those basic skills. Kids are identified at the age of 10 & 11, mainly because of their skill level & in a lot of cases size.
A lot of pathway coaches will disregard those who have poor skills at a young age in any case because at that age there are 100’s of kids who can win the ball, but those development coaches don’t want to particularly work on basic skills, mainly because they don’t have the timeframe to do so.

When RTB talks about skills, he’s talking about it in it basic form, being able to hit a target 20m away without pressure, no one works on that at any senior level, it’s expected.
Today’s training is all about match simulation practice, where hitting those targets 20-30m away is done constantly under match style conditions. Training is a different beast because there is no consequence of error, where gameday there is between 30000-100000 people watching along with a tv audience & then more watching the replay later & of course the result.
That pressure cannot be simulated, so young teams will make errors in games that they don’t at training & so do the experienced from time to time. The more games, along with training, then less errors. With this comes better decision making under pressure, which is just as important.
I don’t go to Freos training, but I’d be very surprised if they are not doing a lot of match simulation training.
 

kingswood71

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If you can't see this as a constant failing of Ross coached teams nothing I say is going to change your mind.
It's been a pattern for a while.
Well...for an example, use McGovern. Second for total intercepts with 171 from 19 games. I am almost sure that we havent played WC 19 times this year, so he must have some ability to see where the ball is going and then run to that spot while he is playing against other sides too....
The way people go on about how Fremantle "Kick it to McGovern" all the time you would swear that he is an inanimate object and we pick him out, when the actual truth is the opposite!
Of course its related to entries but "Ross coached teams" are not orphans in that regard.
If you cant see that, then nothing I say is going to change your mind.
 

Joao

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That's not what I said at all, don't put words in my mouth. If you're not able to grasp the difference between what I said, and your misrepresentation, then that's unfortunate for you. And lay off the strawmen.



Again, it appears you're not able to grasp the issue at hand. Where are you coming up with this nonsense about not playing without training? In fact, where are you coming from with any of this drivvel? Players are still players and can play if they don't train?! What are you even talking about?



I'm not telling you anything, you're going off on some absurdly nonsensical tangent which bears no resemblance whatsoever to anything I have said, and dragging me with you.
The reason you think I am going off on tangents is because you aren't making sense.
 

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raffrox

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Well...for an example, use McGovern. Second for total intercepts with 171 from 19 games. I am almost sure that we havent played WC 19 times this year, so he must have some ability to see where the ball is going and then run to that spot while he is playing against other sides too....
The way people go on about how Fremantle "Kick it to McGovern" all the time you would swear that he is an inanimate object and we pick him out, when the actual truth is the opposite!
Of course its related to entries but "Ross coached teams" are not orphans in that regard.
If you cant see that, then nothing I say is going to change your mind.
Nah, you're right. Our forward line is super efficient.

I don't know what I was thinking.
 

raffrox

Norm Smith Medallist
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Lyon will coach Fremantle next season skills training or not.
Get used to that fact and watching football will become so much more enjoyable. :)
Watching Freo in recent years has been many things but you'd be hard pressed to even find a majority of Freo supporters that would say that it's largely been enjoyable.
 
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theGav56

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In short yes, I do think the way panic sets in is a coaching fault and was even apparently admitted by Lyon in the post match press conference.
The cure for "panic" is experience, and I don't mean training experience, I mean experience in games. Duman learns a lesson from that game from his error, and a coach gets measured on how that is handled. Pretty happy with how he is progressing personally.
 

BlueE

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I think calling junior coaches ‘appalling’ is not really understanding the role of a junior coach. Junior coaches are taught/encouraged to ensure the game is an enjoyable experience. A successful junior coach is marked on how many kids come to training & come back the next year.
Yes of course skills are taught & I hope the basics of good systems in defence, offence & contested ball.
The talent pathway coaches in today’s era are responsible for fine tuning those basic skills. Kids are identified at the age of 10 & 11, mainly because of their skill level & in a lot of cases size.
A lot of pathway coaches will disregard those who have poor skills at a young age in any case because at that age there are 100’s of kids who can win the ball, but those development coaches don’t want to particularly work on basic skills, mainly because they don’t have the timeframe to do so.

When RTB talks about skills, he’s talking about it in it basic form, being able to hit a target 20m away without pressure, no one works on that at any senior level, it’s expected.
Today’s training is all about match simulation practice, where hitting those targets 20-30m away is done constantly under match style conditions. Training is a different beast because there is no consequence of error, where gameday there is between 30000-100000 people watching along with a tv audience & then more watching the replay later & of course the result.
That pressure cannot be simulated, so young teams will make errors in games that they don’t at training & so do the experienced from time to time. The more games, along with training, then less errors. With this comes better decision making under pressure, which is just as important.
I don’t go to Freos training, but I’d be very surprised if they are not doing a lot of match simulation training.
While I agree with what you're saying about junior coaches, from what I've seen there is little time spent on match simulation.

Also drills can be designed, as they are in other top level sports, to simulate pressure the players experience. But that doesn't happen to any great extent from what i've seen at Freo compared to WCE.
 

BlueE

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You mean like the Plan B that knocked off Geelong?
He came up with a different plan to beat Norf and then thanked Montagna in the post game pressor for his advice.

Back to the same ole same ole against Gold Coast in the next game where Montagna wasn't opposition analyst!
 

theGav56

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He came up with a different plan to beat Norf and then thanked Montagna in the post game pressor for his advice.

Back to the same ole same ole against Gold Coast in the next game where Montagna wasn't opposition analyst!
And our recent games have also had a different game plan, using three rucks for example, and playing much smaller in defence. Who says Lyon only has one game plan?
 

salim malik

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Watching Freo in recent years has been many things but you'd be hard pressed to even find a majority of Freo supporters that would say that it's largely been enjoyable.

Lyon is coach now and will coach in 2020. End of story .
You better get used to it and who knows you might even join the majority of supporters who accept the fact and have got behind the club. ;)
 

raffrox

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Lyon is coach now and will coach in 2020. End of story .
You better get used to it and who knows you might even join the majority of supporters who accept the fact and have got behind the club. ;)
Oh I forgot. If I'm not careful you can revoke my supporter card?

What's that you say? You actually can't tell me how to support my club?

The passive aggressive ;) is a nice touch.
 

dont bowl there

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I wonder if all the other teams feel the same about Luke Ryan who is 3rd in total intercepts?
"Why do they keep bombing it to Ryan?!!!"
You do realize that players read the play and run to position right?....
You don't think there has been a pattern of kick long inside 50 that allows really good intercept defenders to have field days against us? Just because some teams do the same to us doesn't mean we shouldn't be criticised for the same mistake over and over and over.
 

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