List Mgmt. Ross Lyon - Sacked

Is Ross still the man for the job?


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BlueE

Club Legend
Oct 12, 2017
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How the hell anyone here would know if Rosich overrules Bell...

In leadership terms, he outranks Bell and is only accountable to the board. If you think that on a daily basis Rosich over-rules Bell you are kidding yourself.

The Hagdorn like muck racking around here is ridiculous.
It wasn't Hackdorn that reported Rosich over ruling Bell wanting the Adelaide list manager or any of the other examples.

Also Bell is conducting a full club review and that is why it's been reported the assistants haven't been offered positions yet, even though the coach's assn says they should have been notified whether their contracts will be renewed or not by 1st August.

By all reports Hale's contact wasn't up for renewal but Rock's was. Why has his contract been renewed (as in the newspaper article posted) but none of the other assistants have? Who made that decision before Bell has finished his review, which was supposed to decided which contracts are to be renewed?
 

PurpleEyes

Club Legend
Jul 2, 2013
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Lyon said it himself in March 2016. Nothing else needs to be said. I think a few have forgotten that.

Ross Lyon says he has no excuse not to deliver Fremantle’s first premiership by 2020 — the final year of his latest contract.
His three-year extension announced at the club’s season launch at Perth Convention and Exhibition Centre yesterday morning means Lyon’s tenure as the Dockers’ senior coach will extend to nine seasons.
Due to come out of contract at the end of next season, Lyon said the new deal had settled him and would afford the time needed to deliver a maiden flag.
We've heard all this before.
It's just noise that doesn't change the fact that Lyon will be coaching Freo in 2020.

If 2020 is a poor year, then Lyon will most likely not be coaching in 2021 and supporters such as myself will support that decision and keep supporting the club and hopefully like any new senior coach appointed to replace Lyon. But if Lyon improves Freo and we are playing finals in 2020, then there is a strong argument that he may still be Freos best option for 2021 and beyond.

I find it sad that the Sack Lyon Brigade, who appear to have invested so heavily in their push to have Lyon gone, struggle to accept reality.
 

Demons09

Club Legend
Jan 12, 2009
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Which other things he says matter? Because he has been disappointed with the player availability, does that carry equal weight as the above said over three years ago, or only when it validates the preconception?
No it doesn’t he said there will be no excuses.
 

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tants

Norm Smith Medallist
Jul 30, 2009
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We're certainly aiming for a premiership and you don't shy away from that.

"Particularly by the end of this tenure, I'll have no excuse to not have achieved that because we're fully resourced, fully supported and I've certainly got a timeframe where I can make short-term and long-term decisions to get us where we want to be."
He said we're aiming for a premiership. Not that we would have a premiership. No coach is going to come out and say we will win the flag by year X.
 

BlueE

Club Legend
Oct 12, 2017
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Of course, they didn't. Next year when we take another step forward they will be saying we should have been top four and that they expected a prelim. None would put money on that though. Perspective seems to be thrown out the window by so many. And as I have mentioned, I was one of the people criticised for going after Ross and the club for how it dealt with young players in 2013-2015. And early 2016.

Since then though, with a ridiculous list turnover, great trading, solid drafting (hard to mark it yet) and good development we are rebuilding very well.
Brisbane were in a worse position and changed their coach and CEO at the end of 2106 and got a new list manager at the start of 2017. (Possible S&C policy and personal changes as well?).

They were similar or worse than us with list turnover, age of players and win loss ratios. Anyone that was paying attention and not drinking the kool aid last year could see that with their positive playing plan, changes in culture to retain or attract players with those changes has had better development and have a rebuilding template that is far superior to ours.
 

nurries

Norm Smith Medallist
Mar 11, 2003
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We've heard all this before.
It's just noise that doesn't change the fact that Lyon will be coaching Freo in 2020.

If 2020 is a poor year, then Lyon will most likely not be coaching in 2021 and supporters such as myself will support that decision and keep supporting the club and hopefully like any new senior coach appointed to replace Lyon. But if Lyon improves Freo and we are playing finals in 2020, then there is a strong argument that he may still be Freos best option for 2021 and beyond.

I find it sad that the Sack Lyon Brigade, who appear to have invested so heavily in their push to have Lyon gone, struggle to accept reality.
I guess the reality is that the coach spruiks on about being a no excuses footy club, but there are many that are making excuses constantly.
 

BlueE

Club Legend
Oct 12, 2017
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But he says other things too, why don't they carry the same weight?
Not when it's just after him adding another 5 or so years to his contract and when journalists questioned him about whether this was attainable and he doubles down and says Of course.

He says that with the new facilities and 5 year extension he has no excuses. They were his words, but ever since this has turned into no expectations!
 

Taylor

Moderator
Jul 16, 2009
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They were similar or worse than us with list turnover, age of players and win loss ratios. Anyone that was paying attention and not drinking the kool aid last year could see that with their positive playing plan, changes in culture to retain or attract players with those changes has had better development and have a rebuilding template that is far superior to ours.
I think they have had access to better talent for a while longer than us, and their win loss ratio was closer to half as good as ours.
2013 - Freo (16), Brisbane (10)
2014 - Freo (16), Brisbane (7)
2015 - Freo (17), Brisbane (4)
2016 - Freo (4), Brisbane (3)
2017 - Freo (8), Brisbane (5)
2018 - Freo (8), Brisbane (5)

20 wins to 13 since 2016, before this year. Brisbane has had some time to bring their draftees up to speed and surrounded them with cast offs that paid off, as well as pinching our gun mid.
 

PurpleEyes

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Jul 2, 2013
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Brisbane were in a worse position and changed their coach and CEO at the end of 2106 and got a new list manager at the start of 2017. (Possible S&C policy and personal changes as well?).

They were similar or worse than us with list turnover, age of players and win loss ratios. Anyone that was paying attention and not drinking the kool aid last year could see that with their positive playing plan, changes in culture to retain or attract players with those changes has had better development and have a rebuilding template that is far superior to ours.
They won the wooden spoon in 2017.
They won just 10 games of 44 in the following 2 seasons.
And now in 2019 they are having a blessed year with very few injuries giving them some stability and a real chance of growth out of a very long rebuild phase.

Given the choice of the next two seasons being failures versus my current belief that 2020 with our current list and senior coach will have us playing finals ... I'll stick with what we've currently got Thanks.
 

nurries

Norm Smith Medallist
Mar 11, 2003
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I think they have had access to better talent for a while longer than us, and their win loss ratio was closer to half as good as ours.
2013 - Freo (16), Brisbane (10)
2014 - Freo (16), Brisbane (7)
2015 - Freo (17), Brisbane (4)
2016 - Freo (4), Brisbane (3)
2017 - Freo (8), Brisbane (5)
2018 - Freo (8), Brisbane (5)

20 wins to 13 since 2016, before this year. Brisbane has had some time to bring their draftees up to speed and surrounded them with cast offs that paid off, as well as pinching our gun mid.
2013 - WC (9)
2014 - WC (11)
2015- WC (18)
2016 - WC (16)
2017 - WC (13)
2018 - WC (19)

WC wouldn't have much access to better talent recently, yet can find and develop some gems.
 

PurpleEyes

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Jul 2, 2013
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Not when it's just after him adding another 5 or so years to his contract and when journalists questioned him about whether this was attainable and he doubles down and says Of course.

He says that with the new facilities and 5 year extension he has no excuses. They were his words, but ever since this has turned into no expectations!
3 years ... not 5.
But don't let facts get in the way of your narrative.
 

Taylor

Moderator
Jul 16, 2009
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2013 - WC (9)
2014 - WC (11)
2015- WC (18)
2016 - WC (16)
2017 - WC (13)
2018 - WC (19)

WC wouldn't have much access to better talent recently, yet can find and develop some gems.
West Coast used their AFL priority picks to select.... Shuey and Darling. Handy extra inclusions. Those are extra picks given by the AFL on top of the ones every other team gets.

My point is not about access to talent recently, it's about access to talent five or so years ago so that now they are developed contributing AFL players.

We are suffering now for talent, and over achieving based on that low level of talent, because our picks during the 2010 to 2015 were both late, diluted by having dozens of players removed from the draft meaning our selections were more like late second round picks. They didn't turn out and we got burned because of it.

In 2010 we finished 6th and started at pick #20 with twelve players taken before the draft began.
 
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BlueE

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They won the wooden spoon in 2017.
They won just 10 games of 44 in the following 2 seasons.
And now in 2019 they are having a blessed year with very few injuries giving them some stability and a real chance of growth out of a very long rebuild phase.

Given the choice of the next two seasons being failures versus my current belief that 2020 with our current list and senior coach will have us playing finals ... I'll stick with what we've currently got Thanks.
They had years of being crap and players leaving and not wanting to stay. You can call that a rebuild just like you call it for us.

Nothing really changed for them until end of 2016 when they changed their coach and CEO at end of 2016 and list manager at the start of 2017. That's when their rebuild started and don't keep making excuses it's only because they had high draft picks, we've had our share. They took some hits in 2017 while playing a positive attacking style of play and people said we were doing better. That's not paying attention to what was happening at both clubs.

They are now attracting players to the club instead of them leaving, which we lost our B&B last year and possibly another one this year with Billy. I don't rule out losing Fyfe as well in the future if nothing changes.
 

tants

Norm Smith Medallist
Jul 30, 2009
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What would meet the threshold of an acceptable reason to not have the team "back where we want to be"?
Nothing. He made a statement that we would be aiming for a premiership so he must be held to those words. Anything else is irrelevant, once Lyon says something it must become true or he should resign.

They had years of being crap and players leaving and not wanting to stay. You can call that a rebuild just like you call it for us.

Nothing really changed for them until end of 2016 when they changed their coach and CEO at end of 2016 and list manager at the start of 2017. That's when their rebuild started and don't keep making excuses it's only because they had high draft picks, we've had our share. They took some hits in 2017 while playing a positive attacking style of play and people said we were doing better. That's not paying attention to what was happening at both clubs.

They are now attracting players to the club instead of them leaving, which we lost our B&B last year and possibly another one this year with Billy. I don't rule out losing Fyfe as well in the future if nothing changes.
We have also attracted a significant swathe of talent - Hogan, Conca, Lobb, Wilson to name a few. At this stage, we have lost Neale. Brad Hill has not left and most likely wont. Brisbane are a mature side playing a developed group of players that have been traded and drafted. They have a stack of first round picks. Their issue will be next year or the year after when they fall off a cliff because they lose their experienced players.

Your irrational belief that Lyon controls everything at Freo is irrational.
 

nurries

Norm Smith Medallist
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West Coast used their AFL priority picks to select.... Shuey and Darling. Handy extra inclusions. Those are extra picks given by the AFL on top of the ones every other team gets.

My point is not about access to talent recently, it's about access to talent five or so years ago so that now they are developed contributing AFL players.

We are suffering now for talent, and over achieving based on that low level of talent, because our picks during the 2010 to 2015 were both late, diluted by having dozens of players removed from the draft meaning our selections were more like late second round picks. They didn't turn out and we got burned because of it.

In 2010 we finished 6th and started at pick #20 with twelve players taken before the draft began.
And we could of picked up Darling instead of Pitt in 2010 Luke Parker went at 40, there is talent around.
 

Taylor

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Jul 16, 2009
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Nothing. He made a statement that we would be aiming for a premiership so he must be held to those words. Anything else is irrelevant, once Lyon says something it must become true or he should resign.
That just means your position is unreasonable and should be treated as such.

You've said there is no threshold. That should something horrible happen to Fremantle and our players aren't available, it wouldn't matter. We could be without our entire best twenty five players and that still wouldn't represent a reasonable threshold to have a review on expectations.

Your position is unreasonable and should be regarded as such.
 

Taylor

Moderator
Jul 16, 2009
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And we could of picked up Darling instead of Pitt in 2010 Luke Parker went at 40, there is talent around.
And West Coast still would have had that top five pick that year (Gaff), and the extra second (Lycett) on top of Darling. The question is, does West Coast win the flag, or make the grand final, without Luke Shuey or Jack Darling on their list from the extra picks they were given by the AFL?

This is particularly relevant now because the AFL is considering giving out more priority picks.
 

tants

Norm Smith Medallist
Jul 30, 2009
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That just means your position is unreasonable and should be treated as such.

You've said there is no threshold. That should something horrible happen to Fremantle and our players aren't available, it wouldn't matter. We could be without our entire best twenty five players and that still wouldn't represent a reasonable threshold to have a review on expectations.

Your position is unreasonable and should be regarded as such.
Do I need to use emojis?
 

malpaso

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Brisbane were in a worse position and changed their coach and CEO at the end of 2106 and got a new list manager at the start of 2017. (Possible S&C policy and personal changes as well?).

They were similar or worse than us with list turnover, age of players and win loss ratios. Anyone that was paying attention and not drinking the kool aid last year could see that with their positive playing plan, changes in culture to retain or attract players with those changes has had better development and have a rebuilding template that is far superior to ours.
And they have nobody on their injury list at the present time..
 

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