List Mgmt. Ross Lyon - Sacked

Is Ross still the man for the job?


  • Total voters
    328

GingerDocker

Debutant
Nov 7, 2018
85
151
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Fremantle
Ultimately you want a flag. I’m not sure Lyon’s method can deliver a flag, we might make finals next year with him in charge. Maybe a prelim 2021. But I’m not sure he had the method to get a flag. That’s why I think they sacked him. The upswing is coming, but the flag maybe isn’t.
This is it for me.

The Board have been extremely bold and said even if we improve next year, a Lyon coached team won't have what it takes to win a flag. I'm sure if Lyon had stayed, and we fixed up our S&C performance, we would have played finals next year and possibly even been top 4 again in 2021 or thereabouts. The Board is saying they want more.

Is it the right call? Who knows...only time will tell and until then all talk is purely subjective. Regardless, it's certainly not a conservative decision.

I liken it to when the dirty birds got rid of Woosha. He'd had success with them (like Lyon), had been at the club for a long time (like Lyon), was perceived as being stubborn and set in his ways (like Lyon). The club made a bold decision to let him go and bring in a young, untried coach, who they hoped would provide a fresh perspective and game plan, and it worked.

I'm deadset keen to get behind someone like JLo and hope to see a revitalised playing group, who embrace a new and refreshed game plan and who seem to be developing and really enjoying their footy.

Of course dangers exist in this strategy, but timid teams don't win flags.
 

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dont bowl there

Norm Smith Medallist
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No they didn't.
He even says there were groups of players happy, sad, disenchanted and ambivalent. Basically exactly what would be going on right now.
 

tacopavlich

Club Legend
Oct 19, 2010
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It's an overall picture...18th in kicking efficiency. Brad Hill dropping 10%...A guy who is at the peak of his powers in terms of fitness can't kick the ball as well anymore...Langdon cant kick...these are guys who regularly get 25+.

Horrible. It's demoralising to watch McCarthy have the ball go everywhere except to where he needs it.
If our injury issues are not addressed, and we have McCarthy as our primary target followed by Darcy then some here will be in for a rude awakening that our kicking % going forward is likely not going to improve.

I actually challenge anyone here to name a worse forward line worse than ours in the second half of the season. Listing off statistics is pretty pointless unless you examine them critically. In regards to how WC train, they are a much older experienced outfit that doesn't need to train structures as they are already known. We have a completely turned over list with a significant amount of new players, of course positioning is going to be a more salient focus.
 
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GingerDocker

Debutant
Nov 7, 2018
85
151
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Fremantle
If our injury issues are not addressed, and we have McCarthy as our primary target followed by Darcy then some here will be in for a rude awakening that our kicking % going forward is likely not going to improve.

I actually challenge anyone here to name a worse forward line than ours in the second half of the season. Listing off statistics is pretty pointless unless you examine them critically. In regards to how WC train, they are a much older experienced outfit that doesn't need to train structures as they are already known. We have a completely turned over list with a significant amount of new players, of course positioning is going to be a more salient focus.
No doubt our injuries have been totally debilitating and the causes need to be reviewed and addressed immediately.

I reckon WC's forward line is no where near as experienced as you suggest. After Darling and Kennedy, the next 4 (Ryan, Rioli, Allen and Petrucelle) have all played well under 50 games. Regrdless of what you think of them, Simpson has set them up fantastically in front of the ball.
 

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tacopavlich

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Oct 19, 2010
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No doubt our injuries have been totally debilitating and the causes need to be reviewed and addressed immediately.

I reckon WC's forward line is no where near as experienced as you suggest. After Darling and Kennedy, the next 4 (Ryan, Rioli, Allen and Petrucelle) have all played well under 50 games. Regrdless of what you think of them, Simpson has set them up fantastically in front of the ball.
Darling is magnitudes better than McCarthy at this stage and Kennedy is one of the best forwards in the game by a fair margin.
 

GingerDocker

Debutant
Nov 7, 2018
85
151
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Darling is magnitudes better than McCarthy at this stage and Kennedy is one of the best forwards in the game by a fair margin.
My point was more that two thirds of their forward line is young and inexperienced yet their structures and disciplines around how they set up don't seem to be hindered in any way. I'd suggest they train their forward structures and forward entry strategies routinely.
 

kingswood71

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Jul 18, 2010
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I reckon WC's forward line is no where near as experienced as you suggest. After Darling and Kennedy, the next 4 (Ryan, Rioli, Allen and Petrucelle) have all played well under 50 games. Regrdless of what you think of them, Simpson has set them up fantastically in front of the ball.
Cripps has played a crap load....so 3 out of their 6 reg forwards have played over 150 games.
 

tacopavlich

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Oct 19, 2010
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My point was more that two thirds of their forward line is young and inexperienced yet their structures and disciplines around how they set up don't seem to be hindered in any way. I'd suggest they train their forward structures and forward entry strategies routinely.
Having on field leaders such as a Kennedy and Darling would be the difference. Having McGovern and Hurn direct their back line means young players will be significantly less exposed. And I wasn't actually challenging the "experience" and age of our forward line but rather the quality.
 

GingerDocker

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Nov 7, 2018
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Cripps has played a crap load....so 3 out of their 6 reg forwards have played over 150 games.
That's true, but that still leaves a half to a third of that forward line very inexperienced.

I was just trying to highlight that a lack of games and experience doesn't necessarily lead to poor performance. Good coaching and solid structure often overcome those deficiencies.
 

Midnite65

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Sep 27, 2013
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caving to negative press is the hallmark of a weak club and weak decision-makers.

the negative press was generated from two factors

1) Ross's relationship with the media "pack"
2) Weagle people in the industry who want to see Fremantle fail.

neither of them should have had any baring on what should be a *football decision*.

If the back office staff don't like Ross? Too ******* bad. The players would run through a wall for him. Last time i checked the back office don't kick the footy and wear a jumper on the weekend.
Pity the players couldn't win more than 35% of the last 90 games though
 

Alfonz

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 23, 2005
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The players would run through a wall for him. Last time i checked the back office don't kick the footy and wear a jumper on the weekend.
You say it shouldn't matter if the back room staff don't like him. Well, it also shouldn't matter if the players liked him. Carlton players would have run through a brick wall for Bolton, but I bet they are happy that he is gone now.

Lyon was never going to deliver us a flag. End of story. Right decision to sack him. The question is whether they can make another right decision with selecting the new coach.
 

showemhowtorock

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Jun 18, 2019
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Fyfe seems devestated and its both disheartening and unnerving to supporters, however, he is allowed to be! He said in the media literally less than a month ago that they all love Ross is like a father figure and now he's gone. More concerning if he seems happy tbh
 

Paracleet

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Jun 30, 2011
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You say it shouldn't matter if the back room staff don't like him. Well, it also shouldn't matter if the players liked him. Carlton players would have run through a brick wall for Bolton, but I bet they are happy that he is gone now.

Lyon was never going to deliver us a flag. End of story. Right decision to sack him. The question is whether they can make another right decision with selecting the new coach.
Would they? News to me.

Who cares if they're happy now. Nobody, including fans of the 3 clubs that dropped coaches earlier, is going to give a rats even in the medium term that their new coaches delivered (which is hardly definitively down to them anyway) them 7, 8 or 9 win seasons instead of 4, 5, 6 ones in the year they came in if they don't start delivering in a full season. Just the same as no-one gives a rats that Fremantle managed 16 wins in 17 and 18 while completely flipping the list (about 4 seasons worth for the last 3 clubs to do the same) instead of say 8 or 9.
 

Admiral Byng

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Fyfe seems devestated and its both disheartening and unnerving to supporters, however, he is allowed to be! He said in the media literally less than a month ago that they all love Ross is like a father figure and now he's gone. More concerning if he seems happy tbh
This is one of my concerns with Sumich. If the spat between them has become so personal that they wouldn't speak or can't work together, it seems that Sumich brings that baggage with him if he comes back. The players are mostly firmly behind Ross, so to bring in the lead of the anti-Ross faction seems like starting off with bad blood. We want a clean skin, not a baggage trolley. It is going to be hard enough for the players to move on and accept a neutral new head coach.
 
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bushchook

Senior List
Dec 9, 2018
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caving to negative press is the hallmark of a weak club and weak decision-makers.

the negative press was generated from two factors

1) Ross's relationship with the media "pack"
2) Weagle people in the industry who want to see Fremantle fail.

neither of them should have had any baring on what should be a *football decision*.

If the back office staff don't like Ross? Too ******* bad. The players would run through a wall for him. Last time i checked the back office don't kick the footy and wear a jumper on the weekend.
I think you're forgetting us being absolutely s**t for 4 years had a fair bit to do with the negative press as well.

It's time for you to accept that Ross was s**t, the media was right, you were wrong. Thank fu** he's gone but it was probably 2 years too late, he's already made a fair bit of headway in ruining the club for years, with development stalled for 5 years and half our team leaving.
 

tants

Norm Smith Medallist
Jul 30, 2009
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I think you're forgetting us being absolutely s**t for 4 years had a fair bit to do with the negative press as well.

It's time for you to accept that Ross was s**t, the media was right, you were wrong. Thank fu** he's gone but it was probably 2 years too late, he's already made a fair bit of headway in ruining the club for years, with development stalled for 5 years and half our team leaving.
You need to put a hyperbole warning before this post.
 

StingBitten

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May 31, 2012
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Alcock admitting disgruntled fans played a part.

See this is what fascinates me because their main sources of fan opinion come from:

- The mainstream media (talk back radio, newspaper/online newspaper write-ins etc)
- Social Media (Facebook, twitter, BF?)
- crowd and membership numbers, TV ratings, merchandising
- Harbour Masters

It sounds far reaching but it's really, really not. It's a very small, and often manipulated sample. Plus referencing merchandising and fan numbers aren't true reflections, I dare you to check out Ports profits in 2011 and Richmonds in years prior to 2016 (in relation to their inherent supporter base and abysmal performances).

This isn't an attack on why Ross was sacked, but it certainly alludes a little more to a 'knee-twitch' in decision making direction.
 

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