List Mgmt. Ross Lyon - Sacked

Is Ross still the man for the job?


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yakka man

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Aug 27, 2010
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Alcock admitting disgruntled fans played a part.

See this is what fascinates me because their main sources of fan opinion come from:

- The mainstream media (talk back radio, newspaper/online newspaper write-ins etc)
- Social Media (Facebook, twitter, BF?)
- crowd and membership numbers, TV ratings, merchandising
- Harbour Masters

It sounds far reaching but it's really, really not. It's a very small, and often manipulated sample. Plus referencing merchandising and fan numbers aren't true reflections, I dare you to check out Ports profits in 2011 and Richmonds in years prior to 2016 (in relation to their inherent supporter base and abysmal performances).

This isn't an attack on why Ross was sacked, but it certainly alludes a little more to a 'knee-twitch' in decision making direction.
I dare say that they put a little thought into it. They have workedwith Ross for years and know more about him than we do. The membership drop off is nothing to scoff at and I'm sure they took multiple things into account.
 

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poshman

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Oct 13, 2006
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I think you're forgetting us being absolutely s**t for 4 years had a fair bit to do with the negative press as well.

It's time for you to accept that Ross was s**t, the media was right, you were wrong. Thank fu** he's gone but it was probably 2 years too late, he's already made a fair bit of headway in ruining the club for years, with development stalled for 5 years and half our team leaving.
Half the team left did they... Moron.
 

poshman

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Quality post.

I know you're upset that daddy is gone but quoting a post just to call someone a moron is a direct violation of board rules, and now that Lyon's gone you don't get a free pass if you're defending him any more.
You said half the team had left - which was blatantly false. Sorry I should have been more accurate and said it was a stupid, idiotic post. Moronic post. Better?

Or do you have any proof that half the list left?
 

Tyler from Fremantle

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Interesting stats from an AFL.com article by Travis King. Not sure if already posted and discussed but it does highlight exactly what many are saying is the issue. It is somewhat alarming to think players skills drop off when coming to Dockers. Of course, this may happen at other clubs too but it does highlight the issue at the Dockers and unless the skills improve it will be hit and miss when we win and lose.

Some of the excerpts.

"Lyon's outfit could get the ball forward (ranked sixth for inside 50s) but currently sits bottom three for scoring for the fourth year in a row.
Some of the foot skills have been appalling, and it's no shock Fremantle is 18th for kicking efficiency this season.
The club is also 17th for kick rating – the expectation of a kick graded against the outcome – and has the second-worst shot at goal accuracy.

"Across the competition, there are 606 players who have had at least 10 kicks this season, including 35 Dockers.
How many would you expect rank in the top 100 for kick rating?
There is only one.
Who?
Stephen Hill, coming in at 70th overall (+4.9%) from just 16 kicks in three games. "

"Hill's younger brother Bradley would be a deserving All Australian this year, and is generally regarded as an elite ball user.
But his kicking has gone backwards since crossing from Hawthorn.
After peaking at 70.9% kick efficiency four years ago, Hill is down to 59.6% this year. "

"Ex-Giants superboot Nathan Wilson carried a toe injury but his efficiency this season is the worst in his career, dipping below 70 per cent for the first time.
Ed Langdon, who appears set to leave and might be joined out the exit by the Hill brothers, is an excellent character and hard worker.
But he has one major flaw in his game – turning the ball over by foot."

"West Coast's clinical efficiency brutally exposes the Dockers' shortcomings.
Any observer who has watched both teams train would notice how the reigning premiers practise skill while Lyon preached structure.
The Eagles drill ball movement repetitively, picking through zone defences by hand and foot, finding targets in a crowded forward line and exiting defence."

DOCKER SHOCKERS
Kick efficiency
- 18th (60.8%)
Kick rating - 17th (-2.9%)
Shot at goal accuracy - 17th (43.5%)
Scores per inside 50 - 16th (39.7%)
Ball retention per kick inside 50 – 10th (46.4%)
Can't wait for PurpleEyes' take on this.
 

Wigarus

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Feb 5, 2011
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You said half the team had left - which was blatantly false. Sorry I should have been more accurate and said it was a stupid, idiotic post. Moronic post. Better?

Or do you have any proof that half the list left?
Hey, what's that phrase about arguing with stupid, idiotic morons?
 

Lach72

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Sep 30, 2005
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if you don't have the cattle you can't kick it to them. Good players make leads where it is easy to hit them up. They make 50/50s into 80/20s. Suddenly your kicking efficiency is higher.
Mate they don't just fluff the kicks going into the forward line...we're horrible by foot
 

FreoMonocle

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Apr 25, 2011
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Alcock admitting disgruntled fans played a part.

See this is what fascinates me because their main sources of fan opinion come from:

- The mainstream media (talk back radio, newspaper/online newspaper write-ins etc)
- Social Media (Facebook, twitter, BF?)
- crowd and membership numbers, TV ratings, merchandising
- Harbour Masters

It sounds far reaching but it's really, really not. It's a very small, and often manipulated sample. Plus referencing merchandising and fan numbers aren't true reflections, I dare you to check out Ports profits in 2011 and Richmonds in years prior to 2016 (in relation to their inherent supporter base and abysmal performances).

This isn't an attack on why Ross was sacked, but it certainly alludes a little more to a 'knee-twitch' in decision making direction.
I think this is all mostly about the "right people" with the "right amount of clout" having been able to have their say. Nepotism and jobs for the boys. Alcock was all on about the freo flavour, if the club is going down the nepotism route, we are going to hell in a basket, that is no way to run a professional outfit.
 

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wild side

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Mar 29, 2010
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Fair call on purple eyes, its her opinion, and I think bullying her o/wise shows about as much credibility as the worst australian with that appalling front page.
We suck by foot no doubt, have for a long time. And kicking for goal, christ what was it in the GF 1.5 at half time, and we kicked 4 oob on the full.
Any new coach just has to get the S & C sorted, and improve the foot skills.
We'll be in the 8 in no time
 

Clems Knee

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Aug 15, 2009
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I dare say that they put a little thought into it. They have workedwith Ross for years and know more about him than we do. The membership drop off is nothing to scoff at and I'm sure they took multiple things into account.
From the people I know who let their membership lapse, it was nothing to do with Ross Lyon, or even team success.

It was about the stadium.
After more people got memberships at the new stadium, a whole load worked out that Fremantle crowds would not reach capacity. So it’s a lot easier to pick and choose games to go to. Buy a ticket on the 5th level and sit somewhere else. I even know someone who always buys a child ticket to each game even though he is in his 50s. (It’s not me).

The Eagles were in that predicament back in the 80s before they reached the capacity of the WACA. We were like that pre 2006 before we reached the capacity of Subiaco Oval.

It will take a year of people being unable to go to the games they want to before memberships go up again. If and when that happens they’ll stay at or near capacity.
 

Tyler from Fremantle

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Why does everyone keep being an asshole to her?
She is extremely justified, and is allowed her opinion!
Just because she doesn't agree with you and prefers to take a more positive outlook you think that makes it okay to keep taking digs?
Maybe it's due to constantly pulling trivial stats out of his arse to support a nonsensical argument.
 

Alfonz

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Aug 23, 2005
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Would they? News to me.

Who cares if they're happy now. Nobody, including fans of the 3 clubs that dropped coaches earlier, is going to give a rats even in the medium term that their new coaches delivered (which is hardly definitively down to them anyway) them 7, 8 or 9 win seasons instead of 4, 5, 6 ones in the year they came in if they don't start delivering in a full season. Just the same as no-one gives a rats that Fremantle managed 16 wins in 17 and 18 while completely flipping the list (about 4 seasons worth for the last 3 clubs to do the same) instead of say 8 or 9.
I agree with your second paragraph. But the point is that people are completely overplaying players being upset about Ross getting sacked. And players liking a coach should not be a reason to keep a coach. The players will get over it quickly.
 

Grape Bear

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I’m sure that as professionals, the players will move on and play for whoever comes in. It’s their job.

However, just like any job, “each individual will take into account their own circumstances” - and if they don’t like where things are heading or don’t think that staying is going to benefit their career in the long run, like any employee, they’ll quickly look elsewhere.
 
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Paracleet

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Jun 30, 2011
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I agree with your second paragraph. But the point is that people are completely overplaying players being upset about Ross getting sacked. And players liking a coach should not be a reason to keep a coach. The players will get over it quickly.
I agree they will get over it quickly. And it's the one aspect of this sorry affair that is most likely not to hurt us: The guys who really care about it are never leaving anyway.
 

Admiral Byng

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I agree with your second paragraph. But the point is that people are completely overplaying players being upset about Ross getting sacked. And players liking a coach should not be a reason to keep a coach. The players will get over it quickly.
Yeah. While a coach losing the players is reason to sack him, the reverse scenario in the players liking a coach is no reason to keep him on. The board were not happy with the direction he was leading them.
 

Taylor

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Jul 16, 2009
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I think our foot skills can be partly attributed to the fact that our best 22 has 9 players picked after #50.
Switta, Walters (the rare exception), Langdon (if he could kick he would be a top ten pick), Hughes, Duman, Crowden, Nyhuis, Banfield and Jones

Filling nearly half our team this week with the last 30% of the draft is going to result in mistakes, and this is a game where one mistake can cost you a goal against but it takes ten chances at making a mistake to get you to a opportunity to kick for goal.

We have 5 first round picks in our 22 this week.
McCarthy, Brayshaw, Cerra, Conca and Logue. (maybe Matera)

Hopefully we can invert that figure with a fit list, not because I think that alone will make us better because I think the middle group are where the average teams become good, but it will mean we are slightly better favoured in that ball movement event to ball movement event to ball movement event chain.
 

FreoMonocle

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I agree with your second paragraph. But the point is that people are completely overplaying players being upset about Ross getting sacked. And players liking a coach should not be a reason to keep a coach. The players will get over it quickly.
It's a nuanced situation, it's not straightforward. A team sport needs buy in by the players or that one unmotivated person undoes the work of several others.

As much as Kersten for example is a lolling away (Kersten Who? I heard us all say...), if a player like Andy goes around to Ross's house, he's not just a coach he is a mentor. JLo or whoever we replace Ross with, is just a bloke to Andy he is not his mentor, it's not like blowing a fuse at the meter box and just replacing it with another fuse.

So yes, on one hand, they are paid professionals and should just keep kicking the footy irrespective of who is in charge, they can kick a footy but give 50% or a coach can help inspire them to go beyond the pain barriers and run faster, tackle harder etc. The new coach is going to spend a lot of time on team bonding exercises and if they can't get player buy in (it's not automatic), we'll be writing off the next few years.
 

stax on the mull

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Duffield is big on the issue of our foot skills being so poor, but as he also pointed out today in his bi-weekly podcast, if we could have improved our foot skills enough to be a one goal a game better team - we'd currently be in the Top 8.
 

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