List Mgmt. Ross Lyon - Sacked

[tonygeeks]

Quoted for accuracy. I am not seduced by skills, we bring great effort, etc.
This is what it boils down to. He is obviously a fantastic motivator, a smart guy but totally wedded to the idea that effort and defensive structure will beat skill.

We’ve stayed together for the sake of the kids but next year it’s time for a divorce


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[Dale147]

RTB made his feelings on WA media well known.

 

[kidstyler]

In his defense the WA media only really have 4 or 5 things to talk about

 

[kidstyler]

Daylight Savings
Roe 8
Trading hours
Meth
Fremantle FC

 

[raffrox]

RTB made his feelings on WA media well known.

That'll teach them a lesson.

 

[salim malik]

There needs to be a full review that it is not limited to a single field. Do you or anyone else know if we still have the same medical and fitness staff that we did under Mark Harvey? Weber was still there wasn't he? And the club doctor has been the same for as long as I can remember. Were injuries this bad under Mark Harvey? It must be a thorough review.

Didn't we have a horror injury run in 2011 . Wasn't Harvey jumped on for apparently selecting injured players? 2010 we had the pre season on a local park in Spearwood if I remember. We went ok injury wise in 2010 I think apart from Barlows broken leg. So much for the elite surface at Cockburn.

 

[Bring back Drum]

Daylight Savings
Roe 8
Trading hours
Meth
Fremantle FC

& Nic Nat.

 

[Taylor]

You mean Ben Cousins' latest court appearance.

 

[kidstyler]

You mean Ben Cousins' latest court appearance.

In my list Ben Cousins is included in the category of 'meth'

 

[Moo]

Is the coach not responsible for teaching decision making, or training skills under fatigue? If you listened to half the people on this forum, you'd think Ross isn't actually responsible for anything.

No he's responsible for everything, which includes developing players and achieving success.

I'm undecided on Ross, one of the reasons I have spent less time on here is the knee jerk reaction on every bad loss and the circular debates (which yes I have also been part of).

Watching yesterday, I almost have a sense of relief that our season is done (almost).

If you can't look at yesterdays effort and say we had 6 players who are under 25 games, 8 players if you want to make it under 30 games ......it's an investment game. Carter will learn, Duman & Logue both made errors .....I think Ross playing them and teaching them will hold us in good stead.

Hold fire on Rossco until seasons end, personally I'm still inclined to let him see out next year and just see how we go.

I still think I'd question our injury management team before anyone.

 

[Joao]

No he's responsible for everything, which includes developing players and achieving success.

I'm undecided on Ross, one of the reasons I have spent less time on here is the knee jerk reaction on every bad loss and the circular debates (which yes I have also been part of).

Watching yesterday, I almost have a sense of relief that our season is done (almost).

If you can't look at yesterdays effort and say we had 6 players who are under 25 games, 8 players if you want to make it under 30 games ......it's an investment game. Carter will learn, Duman & Logue both made errors .....I think Ross playing them and teaching them will hold us in good stead.

Hold fire on Rossco until seasons end, personally I'm still inclined to let him see out next year and just see how we go.

I still think I'd question our injury management team before anyone.

Agree. Unless we are dire in the first half of the season it makes total sense to give Ross all 22.

 

[malpaso]

If you can't look at yesterdays effort and say we had 6 players who are under 25 games, 8 players if you want to make it under 30 games ......it's an investment game. Carter will learn, Duman & Logue both made errors .....I think Ross playing them and teaching them will hold us in good stead.

Surely you jest, Ross just plays unskilled, loyal and long in the tooth players?
There are posters on here that cannot understand playing youth, inexperienced players and the lack of a spine will lead to losses as evidenced against STK. But play them we must and are.

 

[MadMundy]

Saw this well thought out comment about our situation over on Reddit and thought it would be worth sharing

"Honestly, you know what? If Freo had a key forward instead of playing David ******* Mundy and a resting ruckman as our key's, we win that game. Our first FOUR key forwards are injured. There isn't a team in the league that can survive being that unlucky with injury.

If we had our three best ball users in Defence in Alex Pearce, Luke Ryan and Nathan Wilson, we win that game. St Kilda picked us off because we had rookie Taylin Duman and second gamer Jason Carter as our designated kickers out of defence. If that doesn't tell you how ****ed we are then I don't know what does.

Freo has, at a conservative estimate, at least 8 of our best 22 out, and you could mount a case that's its closer to 12.

If we win that game, we're a 10 win team in the hunt for finals with 2 weeks to go. Give that to any Freo fan at the start of the season and that's an unbelievable win for the club.

With 2 weeks to go, we've got Essendon at home and Port away. If we win one of those we get to 10 wins and we can say we were unlucky to not make finals.

As a team we've turned over more players in the past 3 years than any other team, including Carlton and Gold Coast, yet somehow we're pushing for finals again and their still rooted to the bottom of the table? That's a light speed rebuild that's worked, and we all know how rare those are."

 

[malpaso]

Saw this well thought out comment about our situation over on Reddit and thought it would be worth sharing

"Honestly, you know what? If Freo had a key forward instead of playing David ******* Mundy and a resting ruckman as our key's, we win that game. Our first FOUR key forwards are injured. There isn't a team in the league that can survive being that unlucky with injury.

If we had our three best ball users in Defence in Alex Pearce, Luke Ryan and Nathan Wilson, we win that game. St Kilda picked us off because we had rookie Taylin Duman and second gamer Jason Carter as our designated kickers out of defence. If that doesn't tell you how f’ed we are then I don't know what does.

Freo has, at a conservative estimate, at least 8 of our best 22 out, and you could mount a case that's its closer to 12.

If we win that game, we're a 10 win team in the hunt for finals with 2 weeks to go. Give that to any Freo fan at the start of the season and that's an unbelievable win for the club.

With 2 weeks to go, we've got Essendon at home and Port away. If we win one of those we get to 10 wins and we can say we were unlucky to not make finals.

As a team we've turned over more players in the past 3 years than any other team, including Carlton and Gold Coast, yet somehow we're pushing for finals again and their still rooted to the bottom of the table? That's a light speed rebuild that's worked, and we all know how rare those are."

I agree with it and that game exposed more about STK than it did us.

 

[Square Peg]

It will. Every time.

It won't beat the structured, high effort skillful team though.

The best thing about the skills is that when you're on top, they look way better. We were far less fumbly and the ball bounced in our favor against the Cats in the wet because we were on top and they sat their players back to react to that, our guys were able to run off the contest more.

There was a passage of play against the Saints where Brad Hill should have run on to get the ball again but didn't push into the space on the wing - he sat himself in the middle near his opponent because we had been turning it over so much he would have been well out of position and his opponent would have been able to be the extra in a scoring chain for them.

When it's good it looks really good, when it's bad it's bad and the players lose confidence - so they don't put in the work to make the kick a bit easier.

It's a tipping seesaw.

Anyone that has played much sport will have played in teams that lose confidence. In my experience there is only ever one thing driving it - fear. As you say in teams playing without confidence every bloke protects his own patch, he basically is thinking as long as I don't stuff up there'll be someone else to blame for the inevitable stuff up.
So the question is why are we playing with fear? I think you know the answer as well as I do. The coach tells a bloke his job is to destroy not create. That bloke really wants the ball, right?

 

[raffrox]

Saw this well thought out comment about our situation over on Reddit and thought it would be worth sharing

"Honestly, you know what? If Freo had a key forward instead of playing David ******* Mundy and a resting ruckman as our key's, we win that game. Our first FOUR key forwards are injured. There isn't a team in the league that can survive being that unlucky with injury.

If we had our three best ball users in Defence in Alex Pearce, Luke Ryan and Nathan Wilson, we win that game. St Kilda picked us off because we had rookie Taylin Duman and second gamer Jason Carter as our designated kickers out of defence. If that doesn't tell you how f’ed we are then I don't know what does.

Freo has, at a conservative estimate, at least 8 of our best 22 out, and you could mount a case that's its closer to 12.

If we win that game, we're a 10 win team in the hunt for finals with 2 weeks to go. Give that to any Freo fan at the start of the season and that's an unbelievable win for the club.

With 2 weeks to go, we've got Essendon at home and Port away. If we win one of those we get to 10 wins and we can say we were unlucky to not make finals.

As a team we've turned over more players in the past 3 years than any other team, including Carlton and Gold Coast, yet somehow we're pushing for finals again and their still rooted to the bottom of the table? That's a light speed rebuild that's worked, and we all know how rare those are."

Fair enough post but at very best the jury is out on whether the rebuild has worked or not.

The word 'worked' in the past tense suggests the job is done which is laughable.

 

[kingswood71]

You are right, defenders never have a field day against Fremantle. But it's not the coaches fault we kick to the wrong spot year after year after year. I mean how can the coaching staff change that? They can't kick the ball themselves right?

Round 17	2017	Shannon Hurn (1) (West Coast)
Round 6	2018	Shannon Hurn (2) (West Coast) Lachie Neale (3) (Fremantle)
Round 20	2018	Elliot Yeo (1) (West Coast)
Round 4	2019	Shannon Hurn (3) (West Coast)
Round 16	2019	Brad Sheppard (1) (West Coast)

I wonder if all the other teams feel the same about Luke Ryan who is 3rd in total intercepts?
"Why do they keep bombing it to Ryan?!!!"
You do realize that players read the play and run to position right?....

 

[Whatname]

Do the people who type "ross doesn't care about skills" really believe that.

You really think he is happy when players don't hit targets in the back line.

Sure he values effort but to say he doesn't care at all about skills is not fair.

I am sure the players practice their kicking but you will never recreate the pressure of a match in training.
Execution under pressure is an athlete's biggest hurdle and the only way you can work on it is in-game.

 

[freddieflintoff]

RTB made his feelings on WA media well known.

Have a listen to Hackdorn on SenSA this morning. Without doubt the most onesided interview ive ever listen to. Praised the Eagles no end then payed out on Ross & club. This bloke must be No 1 ticket holder at Eagles and really hate Ross with a passion. Disgraceful from a reporter in prominate position in the media.

 

[kingswood71]

Do the people who type "ross doesn't care about skills" really believe that.

You really think he is happy when players don't hit targets in the back line.

Sure he values effort but to say he doesn't care at all about skills is not fair.

I am sure the players practice their kicking but you will never recreate the pressure of a match in training.
Execution under pressure is an athlete's biggest hurdle and the only way you can work on it is in-game.

I think they kinda are holding onto a misquote when Ross said "When you get to AFL football you can work on your skill and execution but it is by degrees from there. Your core skill set takes about 10,000 hours to master. I have never been one to focus on skill level. We work on it and we acknowledge it but for whatever reason it crept into our vernacular and our coaching about execution of skill and we shifted away from things that you can control with effort, intensity".... Note, he said " We work on it and we acknowledge it"...somehow this has all been taken as "He doesnt teach skills".....He clearly points out that when a player reaches the AFL, they have a well developed skills set and any improvement is by degrees.

 

[raffrox]

I wonder if all the other teams feel the same about Luke Ryan who is 3rd in total intercepts?
"Why do they keep bombing it to Ryan?!!!"
You do realize that players read the play and run to position right?....

If you can't see this as a constant failing of Ross coached teams nothing I say is going to change your mind.

It's been a pattern for a while.

 

[Taylor]

All clubs bomb it long when they run dry of options

 

[Nothing]

Do the people who type "ross doesn't care about skills" really believe that.

You really think he is happy when players don't hit targets in the back line.

Sure he values effort but to say he doesn't care at all about skills is not fair.

I am sure the players practice their kicking but you will never recreate the pressure of a match in training.
Execution under pressure is an athlete's biggest hurdle and the only way you can work on it is in-game.

The same people (or similar people) will then say that Lyon backed Harley in and overrode the footy department to demand he get a contract (similar has been said of him demanding Hogan be traded in). He doesn't want Harley or Hogan because they bring great effort, he wants them playing because they are highly skilled.
So depending on the day, he doesn't value skills or wants to override people to bring in skills.

 

[BlueE]

I think they kinda are holding onto a misquote when Ross said "When you get to AFL football you can work on your skill and execution but it is by degrees from there. Your core skill set takes about 10,000 hours to master. I have never been one to focus on skill level. We work on it and we acknowledge it but for whatever reason it crept into our vernacular and our coaching about execution of skill and we shifted away from things that you can control with effort, intensity".... Note, he said " We work on it and we acknowledge it"...somehow this has all been taken as "He doesnt teach skills".....He clearly points out that when a player reaches the AFL, they have a well developed skills set and any improvement is by degrees.

Where's the link for that quote. RTB has stated many times publically that he doesn't teach skills, and players should be going to the park to practice them. "I have never been one to focus in skill level". The last time was after an inexplicable loss where he took the players to the beach for one of the training sessions that week. Then at the pressor blasted the players for poor skills!

The park is the worst place to practice skills in pressure situations, that is what the coach should be doing with training drills. Some of the coaches took the initiate and had extra training sessions for younger players last year. Don't think it's happening this year though. What passes as skill training for goal kicking is not much above a kick and giggle at Freo training and supports his mantra that with effort and intensity goals will follow. That's incorrect.

Pressure destroys skills and skills destroy pressure, if they're practiced in pressure situations.

It's what other successful AFL clubs do and what all other professional sports do and is not rated by Ross.

 

[Tyler from Fremantle]

Why would he need to change when he has the team he wants healthy and playing well? After that wins and form dictate a lot of things. I don't understand the change for change sake's argument..

Because that team will never be 100% fit, which means we need a plan B, and after nearly 15 years as a head coach, Ross is yet to come up with one.