Ross Lyon - St Kilda Coach

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The coach of any AFL club has a tough job.

From the outside, it might seem like a glamorous job. You meet important people, you make important decisions and your work is everybody else's (second) favourite leisure activity.

The reality is that it is hard work.

Ross Lyon (I'm sure) didn't anticipate having the problems he has now.

I have been a big fan of Grant Thomas.

Grant was instrumental in bringing about major changes that we as a club needed made. He brought with him genuine class, integrity and accountability. It is unfortunate that there was a widely held misconception about how he ended up becoming our coach. I know he wasn't perfect, but after 5 years, Grant had ironed out most of his deficiencies as a coach and the club was benefitting from this.

I was as shocked as any Saints fan when the rug was pulled from under GT.
I felt as if the club had betrayed us, its heart and soul, the fans.

The reasoning behind the decision may have been sound, but it was a strange move to make - when the Saints, despite serious injury problems, were in the middle of the second best era of the club's existence.

The club went through a process. They selected a replacement coach from a number of candidates who might be considered the best available coaching talent in the land.

Only five or six years earlier, we had a similar search for a coach - and we ended up having second rate candidates turn us down. No-one wanted the job. We can thank GT, Butterss, and the board for the change in fortunes.

Now we have the best in the land trying for the job.

Thank you GT.

Now it is time to give the best of the best, Ross Lyon, a chance to show his stuff.

I believe that stability is one of the most important factors in our success as a club (such success as we've had), and the dismissal of GT and placement of RL has been a destabilising factor.

I know it seems as if we've had these injury problems forever, but we just need to get through this patch and do some real development in the RL way of things. We may play finals this year, we may miss out (I hope not), whatever the case I expect that we will be a real force next year.

I have always held this belief (ever since the GT sacking) that a first year coach does not offer the stability nor strength of relationship to win a premiership.

RL will win us a premiership.

Hopefully it will be in 2008.

I do foresee further developmental years ahead though, as RL and his assistants recruit personnel for need.

We need Ross to settle into the role, ideally to have success early (like in 2008) and for him to commit to a long term placement as coach. This offers us the stability that we need for success. We already have the personnel that we need and already have improved the structure of the club.

The final piece in the puzzle is longevity - to have all the right things in place long enough for premierships to happen. Sustained success.



Saint vilified as Reverend escapes blame
27 May 2007
Sunday Herald Sun
Jon Ralph

LIKE Malcolm Blight and Grant Thomas before him, Ross Lyon has found the term "honeymoon period" does not exist in the St Kilda lexicon.

The fans are coming for Lyon and his Saints, who at 4-5 are about to tackle Geelong, the Kangaroos and West Coast at Subiaco.

According to the punters, the game plan is ultra-defensive, the players aren't on board and the team is boring to watch even when it does win.

Heck, why not just lump the massive injury toll on Lyon's shoulders as well? Lyon would have known he was in trouble when even the mild-mannered Bruce McAvaney said the Saints could not play finals if they lost against Freo.

At 4-5? With 13 games remaining? Steady on, Bruce.

There might be a stage where we question Lyon's game plan or if he has what it takes, but that time is not Round 9. Here is the perspective.

Lyon walked into St Kilda and inherited a team with an ageing midfield, a lack of pace and a history of injuries.

Like Thomas, he has lost a host of prime movers, including full-back (Max Hudghton), centre half-back (Matt Maguire), running backs (Jason Gram, Xavier Clarke, Brendon Goddard), midfielders (Lenny Hayes, Robert Harvey, Leigh Montagna) and ruckmen Matthew Clarke and Michael Gardiner.

Despite this, he had broken level before Friday, only to lose a game through woefully inaccurate kicking, with his co-captain the chief offender.

Contrast the blowtorch on Lyon with the Demons and Neale Daniher who have flown under the radar, despite an injury toll no worse than St Kilda's.

While Lyon was rebuffing accusations he had flooded against Hawthorn, Daniher was sheepishly shrugging off talk his players would win against the Kangaroos just for him.

While Lyon has been in the job for nine rounds, Daniher has had a decade to build a side brimming with depth, leadership, talent and competitive fire.

At 0-8, they are lacking in three of those departments and, as much as we all love the Reverend, the buck stops with him. His players were inept against the Eagles last Sunday.

Daniher's players should stop thinking about doing it for Neale and resuscitate their careers.

With so many St Kilda fans still loyal to Thomas, it seems Lyon has been caught in the cross-fire.

There is no easier target than a first-year coach with one hand tied behind his back through injuries.



I may be loyal to Thomas - but that doesn't mean I'm disloyal to Lyon.

Ross Lyon is the St Kilda coach. It is a position of importance and honour. The holder of the position automatically earns my loyalty.

Too many forgot that re: Grant Thomas.

Ross Lyon hopefully will be our long term coach.

I will give him my unconditional loyalty. (Forteus quo fidelius)

I am sure he will earn my respect as well.
 

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pol06

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#2
Top post!

I hope that Ross Lyon can get treated fairly as a coach unlike how Grant Thomas was constantly critisized. I hope that even if we dont have early success under Lyon he is given a lengthy period to build a side he believes capable, I'm sure he will be able to do this with the large majority of our stars under 25 and promising players from the drafts in recent years starting to pop up.

The only problem I have had with Lyon so far is the selection of certain players but in fairness he has not had a lot to work with and this will lead to a false indication of who he truely intends on playing. I wish him all the best and hope he can lead us to a premiership with an accountable yet attacking brand of football.
 

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Top post!

I hope that Ross Lyon can get treated fairly as a coach unlike how Grant Thomas was constantly critisized. I hope that even if we dont have early success under Lyon he is given a lengthy period to build a side he believes capable, I'm sure he will be able to do this with the large majority of our stars under 25 and promising players from the drafts in recent years starting to pop up.

The only problem I have had with Lyon so far is the selection of certain players but in fairness he has not had a lot to work with and this will lead to a false indication of who he truely intends on playing.

I wish him all the best and hope he can lead us to a premiership with an accountable yet attacking brand of football.
That's why unfortunately james gwilt has had to line up at FB in the interim.

This is definitely the type football ross lyon is trying to breed. A perfect balance of accountable and attacking football. The sydney ultra-defensive style is less suited to us as we have a more talented midfield and a more damaging forward line. (Not taking anything away from sydney who have proven their game plan obviously works)

Let's stand by Ross Lyon through this tough time, stkilda have hardly been embarrassed like richmond. When Lyon get's his starting back 6 fit and they can go one on one with their opponents, we will flood less and attack more. The final pieces of the puzzle are the forward pressure players hamill, Jones, x clarke etc.. and im hoping..gardiner.

But, let's not put too much pressure on Lyon in his first season to deliver just when he gets players back into the side. Let them get match fitness, get accustomed to the game plan and become more familiar with their team mates on the field. - Some players haven't played a minute of football under Lyon yet (Hamill, Gardiner, R Clarke, Hudgeton 10m?)
 

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Top post!

. I wish him all the best and hope he can lead us to a premiership with an accountable yet attacking brand of football.
My only problem with him is that we don't have a team to replicate Sydney's game plan. I think like Thomas he only has a Plan A. I would have liked him to keep a part of the Thomas Plan and Tinker with it
 

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I have always held this belief (ever since the GT sacking) that a first year coach does not offer the stability nor strength of relationship to win a premiership.

RL will win us a premiership.

Hopefully it will be in 2008.

As for the top part very good point! never thought of that.

with the bottom one shit i hope your right. but how do you reckon Harv's would feel, part of me doesn't want to win a flag for a couple of years after he goes so he doesn't feel he missed out. i love that man.
 

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As for the top part very good point! never thought of that.

with the bottom one shit i hope your right. but how do you reckon Harv's would feel, part of me doesn't want to win a flag for a couple of years after he goes so he doesn't feel he missed out. i love that man.
Amen brother
 
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good point about harvs, as a geelong supporter, i have grown 2 hate u blokes with a passion over the last couple of yrs and im sure u have grown 2 hate us as well.

robert harvey is 1 player however, that whatever he does i will never bag him, and i dont think any sane person could, 2 play 340 odd games and still be up with the best and keeping up with guys half his age, amazing.

as 4 u guys getting rid of gt, i thought that was a pretty stupid move. thomas was not the greatest coach, but ur window of opportunity is closing, and closing quickly, and as the bloke earlier said, it takes a season or 2 4 a coach 2 "settle in", and by then, im sorry, but i think ur window of opportunity will be closed. interesting 2 c what lyon will b like, im not liking what i c so far, but then again, he might as well b coaching casey with the injuries u blokes have had of late.

as much as i hate 2 admit it, full strength, u blokes r the best side in the comp, i just think u have 2 many injury prone guys, kossy, hammill is a crock, harvs and his hammys, max is getting on, milney is a disgrace!!!, poor old goose is the unluckiest bloke ever! the list goes on, good luck guys.
 

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good point about harvs, as a geelong supporter, i have grown 2 hate u blokes with a passion over the last couple of yrs and im sure u have grown 2 hate us as well.
Yep. Hate you with a passion, which is great. Sure, my hate sprung from a preseason GF, which doesn't exactly make it a Carlton-Collingwood rivalry, but I'm loving it all the same. Oh, how I loathe Gary Ablett. Oh, how I love watching Baker play on him.
 

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I'm still hoping Harv's might go on.. Enforced midseason break, more stamina than just about any player in the league, the only thing he has lost is his pace, but he still finds plenty of room.

On RL, I have a big opinion of him as a coach. I think he does have a couple of game plans. We can execute the attacking style as it has been our style for years now, but only against mediocre opposition it seems. We struggle with the shut down, win the stoppage style because we've never played it. All the pre season work done to combat this is out the window because our team structure is shot with the injuries.

I have seen patches of play were we have got it right (eg 2nd & 3rd 1/4's v Freo). What we are lacking is the ability to get it right consistently, for 4 quarters. This, IMO, is due to not having some very important, experienced players on the park. These young guys, while they are showing great signs for the future, are not ready to take the important roles that are forced upon them ATM.

This will hold us in good stead in the future, as when they step back to numbers 18-22 instead of 10-14 they will come on and carve it up.

I just hope we can keep the core of the side together next year.
 

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Here's a great post from the saintsational site, i think it sums up the situation quite well.

Why is Lyon taking the club forwards?

1. He is willing to have development coaches and a structured football department. The benefits of this can be seen at Collingwood, with Buckley recently saying that their draftees were ready for AFL at least a year earlier than in the past because of the development structures in place.

2. He recognises the way the game has changed in terms of requiring running players and midfielders with speed. He has already made changes to our list to rectify this, and intends to make further changes at the end of this year.

3. He has adopted a full complement of rookies (whether or not this was GT's fault is irrelevant ... it did not happen under him) and this has greatly improved our depth and the quality of our "bottom six" players

4. He has encouraged a focus on accountability and defence. The last dozen premiership side have had excellent defensive sides to their game, and Lyon is implementing this.

5. The use of set-plays and structures on the ground, missing entirely under GT, has given us an advantage.
For instance, did you notice the new set player where Joey's opponent is blocked and runs wide of the pack at a ball up? A 'third man up' for the Saints thumps the ball 15m to where Joey is and we win the clearance.
Happened 5-6 times against the Cats

6. The gameplan Lyon is introducing takes time to adjust to. It took Sydney a full two years before they were fully adjusted. He uses philosophies from American football, soccer and basketball that have become common in those games, and are as a result of continual innovation.

7. Such a gameplan has the advantages of keeping you in every game, of allowing a more even contribution from your playing group and not relying on "star" players, and of being successful in finals.

8. Lyon has had to deal with everything under the sun as a first year coach, and has dealt with it in a professional and competent manner. From what I hear from those who had a previous association with him, he is an excellent leader and football communicator.


Quote:Would you rather to win say 13 games and play finals football and have a chance of winning the flag Or would you rather us win 3 or 4 games playing a negetive brand that is killing the club?


You are taking a short-term view.

The point is that the brand and style of football Lyon is adopting takes time for the players to adapt to. This issue of time is compounded when you have an unsettled side with horrendous injuries.

Playing attractive free-flowing football makes look fantastic against the poor sides and get smashed by the good sides ... exactly what happened in 2006.

It does not encourage improvement in your list or amongst your bottom players, and allows you to rely on your top dozen to win you games.



Quote:RL says it will take a year to develop.... so we just write the year off?


We have to.

The board had two options, and in their view these were:

1. Retain GT, have a crack at the premiership for one last time in 2007 and then drop away in 2008 and '09 as retirements, lack of rookies, development structures and poor drafting led to a fall away in performance.

2. Sack GT, introduce the missing elements in our football department, and realise that we will be out of the running in '07. Our chance would then be '08 - '10 as we rectify some of the problems and capitalise on the best parts of our list ... the core players like Rooey and Bally between the ages of 22 and 26.


GT was unwilling to accept changes to development structures, changes to recruiting and changes to gameplan that the board viewed as necessary for long-term sustained success in the football department.

They took the view that the short term pain (i.e. 12-18 months) that is associated with the appointment of any new coach would be justified by keeping the club up the ladder between 2008 and 2010.


Sydney went through the same process when Eade left ... they had a down year in '03 after playing finals for a long time, but the Roos/Lyon gameplan begun to work, and they won a flag in '05.



In short ... I support RL and believe he is doing 1) the right thing and 2) the best he can.
 

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1)Grant was instrumental in bringing about major changes that we as a club needed made. He brought with him genuine class, integrity and accountability. It is unfortunate that there was a widely held misconception about how he ended up becoming our coach. I know he wasn't perfect, but after 5 years, Grant had ironed out most of his deficiencies as a coach and the club was benefitting from this.




2)I believe that stability is one of the most important factors in our success as a club (such success as we've had), and the dismissal of GT and placement of RL has been a destabilising factor.
agree with those two top comments completely. the thing is - it was way too soon to get rid of thomas. st.kilda has years and years of bad habits,culture and ways to errode. grant (and i couldnt stand him when he was your coach)
did a great job to do that with stkilda. he did a marvellous job at galvanising a young squad who would bleed for club and coach.

he made that club look like it was one big family, and that even followed on into your supporters.

then the father of the family got sacked - not because he wasn't doing a good job - but because he hadn't done the greatest job possible. what messages does that say to the kids/players? be loyal to us, bleed for us, live for us - but if you can't be the best out there - your out.


when he got sacked, everything changed - much to soon to completely errode the errors of st.kilda's past.
it destroyed the 4 years of real stability you had created. 4 years of stability is not being stable for a long period of time - its a blink of the eye in regards to a clubs history.

butterrs has messed it up. honestly, he and the saints may have just gotten ahead of themselves. ross lyon may very well had been the coach to take you to the next step - but it was never going to be this year , probably not even next or the one after. i don;t think anyone is giving ross lyon a hard time about all this rubbish

it was way more important for you guys to ensure you remained stable and really set a precident of the attitude and belief this club had in every single board member, coach, player & supporter - and together, you were all going to take st.kilda to the future
:(
 

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agree with those two top comments completely. the thing is - it was way too soon to get rid of thomas. st.kilda has years and years of bad habits,culture and ways to errode. grant (and i couldnt stand him when he was your coach)
did a great job to do that with stkilda. he did a marvellous job at galvanising a young squad who would bleed for club and coach.

he made that club look like it was one big family, and that even followed on into your supporters.

then the father of the family got sacked - not because he wasn't doing a good job - but because he hadn't done the greatest job possible. what messages does that say to the kids/players? be loyal to us, bleed for us, live for us - but if you can't be the best out there - your out.


when he got sacked, everything changed - much to soon to completely errode the errors of st.kilda's past.
it destroyed the 4 years of real stability you had created. 4 years of stability is not being stable for a long period of time - its a blink of the eye in regards to a clubs history.

butterrs has messed it up. honestly, he and the saints may have just gotten ahead of themselves. ross lyon may very well had been the coach to take you to the next step - but it was never going to be this year , probably not even next or the one after. i don;t think anyone is giving ross lyon a hard time about all this rubbish

it was way more important for you guys to ensure you remained stable and really set a precident of the attitude and belief this club had in every single board member, coach, player & supporter - and together, you were all going to take st.kilda to the future
:(
I agree with your post. I only have one thing to take you to task on: If GT was still coach you would still hate him. I am sick and tired of all these people who bagged and bagged him, were calling for his neck and saying he can't coach turning around as soon as he's gone and saying "Oh, I liked Grant Thomas, he's been hard done by, the Saints shouldn't have got rid of him."
It's one or the other guys. Me, I always said he was a good people manager but a poor tactition. I stand by that. I am glad for the change. It will be proven to be correct IMO. He was either the right man for the job or he wasn't. He can't be both.
 

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agree with those two top comments completely. the thing is - it was way too soon to get rid of thomas. st.kilda has years and years of bad habits,culture and ways to errode. grant (and i couldnt stand him when he was your coach)
did a great job to do that with stkilda. he did a marvellous job at galvanising a young squad who would bleed for club and coach.

he made that club look like it was one big family, and that even followed on into your supporters.
:(
Did you not read Punter's post at all? This was about the fact that Thomas refused to put a modern football structure in place at Moorabbin. He was running the football department into the ground in order to build his own little empire. How does that change bad habits and cultures?

He had to be stopped - the man was negotiating all player contracts and refused to have a football ops manager (among other things), FFS.
 
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