Ross Lyon: Will He Coach Again?

Who will be the third team to be coached by Ross Lyon?

  • GWS

    Votes: 43 27.7%
  • Melbourne

    Votes: 41 26.5%
  • Ross Lyon will stay in the media

    Votes: 60 38.7%
  • Adelaide

    Votes: 13 8.4%
  • Noth Melbourne

    Votes: 11 7.1%
  • Geelong

    Votes: 4 2.6%

  • Total voters
    155

Remove this Banner Ad

Breretonisahood

Senior List
Feb 26, 2013
207
272
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Good coach for Melbourne or GWS. Not North. He’d really whip Mel or GWS into shape really quickly. I just don’t see him being patient enough to take on a slow, long term rebuild with North.
 

Ron The Bear

Come on Sydney, come on!
Jul 4, 2006
33,630
33,527
Melbourne
AFL Club
Richmond
The point I was making, is that people say he inherited some good cattle from Harvey. Ok, we’ll tick that.

He lifted some “ordinary foot soldiers” into a finals outfit for a couple of seasons. Then he recruited a number of players, Brayshaw, Cerra, Ryan etc.

JLo is being given credit for the development of the youngsters. Hey, those youngsters were recruited during Lyons reign.

You can’t on one hand say he inherited good cattle, and on the other hand say he didn’t develop any players when he left. You can’t use two different lines of argument, to push your point.

Yes, Lyon had to go in the end at Freo, time was up, BUT he did leave some good cattle behind.
Well he introduced those players, but you can't say he developed them to the point of being consistent winners. Thought he may have got one more year given the wins against good opposition in 2019, but after 16th-14th-14th-13th the club ran out of patience. At face value, I'm not convinced Freo took the big step forward under Longmuir that is generally perceived.
 

General Giant

Hall of Famer
Apr 12, 2012
37,637
29,999
AFL Club
GWS
The irony of players liking Leon, is that it appears that some of the best coaches could be described as “right royal bastards” as people. They are happy to rattle players cages.

Leon is maybe not challenging his players ?. Playing the nice guy role too much, lacks aggro ?.
Has no tactics.
 

Log in to remove this ad.

Freomaniac

Brownlow Medallist
May 3, 2007
21,997
11,209
Parts Unknown
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
Man City, Valencia, Lazio, Panthers
Clarko beat the choking flooding zone defence.

When he gets a few more good young players he will beat the current flood.

Or the AFL can fix the horrible umpiring and pay more frees and ball up quicker to stop giving the rolling mauls so much time.
so why is clarko losing to these defensive sides in 2020?

clarko didn't beat the flooding defence. In 2013, hawks beat a Freo side that had an ageing pav, maybe at 185 cm tall as a CHF and 2 small forward pocket players in Ballantyne and Walters. In 2014, the hawks bear the swans when the swans had an off day and hawks were efficient. In 2015, hawks, beat the eagles web. When Clarkson made those grand finals from 2012-15, he had a lot of very good players. Most importantly, they were in their prime.


Fremantle has spent 5 years in the doldrums playing a dismal brand of football because of Lyon's decisions. His list was completely mishandled.
nothing to do with a dismal brand of footy, it's more to do with replacing the players.

Look at the backline of 2012-15. Dawson, Johnson and McPharlin were the talls, ibbotson, Spurr and Duffield were the smalls. McPharlin and Duffield were gone in 2015, Dawson and ibbotson were gone in 2017 and Johnson and Spurr were gone in 2018.

Got tall defenders in Logue, Cox and Duman in the 2016 draft and hamling in a trade that year too.

Up forward..... Pav retired in 2016, mayne was traded too that year. Ballantyne left. Walters is still there but plays on a Wing and forward flank. Lobb and Hogan were traded in. Matt Taberner has slowly developing into a serviceable tall forward too.

Midfield wasn't that bad. Mzungu, clancee Pearce, de Boer and Suban were all replaceable. But if I was given the choice, I would of given clancee Pearce and Deboer 1-2 more years.

Sean Darcy slowly developing as the elusive Sandilands replacement as the main ruck with Lobb as back up ruck.

Fyfe, acres, Conca, cerra and Brayshaw isn't a bad list of inside mids. Aish, Hill, Henry, giro, Coyler, serong and young isn't a bad list of outside mids.

I knew at the end of 2016, this was going to be a 4-5 year rebuild. This was mainly due to building up the key position stocks.

It was going to take 3-5 years to build the KPP stocks.


I see Freo making finals next season. Even if it's 7th or 8th spot
 

Freomaniac

Brownlow Medallist
May 3, 2007
21,997
11,209
Parts Unknown
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
Man City, Valencia, Lazio, Panthers
Well he introduced those players, but you can't say he developed them to the point of being consistent winners. Thought he may have got one more year given the wins against good opposition in 2019, but after 16th-14th-14th-13th the club ran out of patience. At face value, I'm not convinced Freo took the big step forward under Longmuir that is generally perceived.
Had you read my post..... Freo had an ageing squad in 2015 hence that back 6 we had in that 2012-15 period all retired between 2015-18.

Yeah we finished 16th, 14th, 14th and 13th in those 4;years you mentioned, but a lot of youth was played in that 2016-19 period
 

Ron The Bear

Come on Sydney, come on!
Jul 4, 2006
33,630
33,527
Melbourne
AFL Club
Richmond
And Harvey introduced our Lyon-era players but couldn't develop them to the point of being consistent winners. Lyon developed them, which is the point masai is making I believe.
Freo was the 4th-oldest team in Lyon's first year. His gameplan was rigid and required players with mature bodies who could follow instructions. It was a suitable squad for him, hence he jumped ship from a club that he sailed to the edge of the cliff.
 

Freomaniac

Brownlow Medallist
May 3, 2007
21,997
11,209
Parts Unknown
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
Man City, Valencia, Lazio, Panthers
Lyon absolutely cooked.
Stuck in his old ways.
Wont change. Arrogant. Beligerent.
w***er.
Selling old snake oil.
Don't you start lol.

Your side unleashed him to the unsuspecting footy public. LoL.

You can not tell me he is too old when Neil Craig was a (caretaker or interim) coach as a 60 year old in 2013 with the demons
 

WillHayward

Premiership Player
Aug 13, 2018
4,670
6,330
Newcastle
AFL Club
Sydney
Don't you start lol.

Your side unleashed him to the unsuspecting footy public. LoL.

You can not tell me he is too old when Neil Craig was a (caretaker or interim) coach as a 60 year old in 2013 with the demons
Age is not the issue.

But RTB is unwilling to adapt.

Just digs in and belives hes always right.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Cotchins Hair Piece

Bouffant Flat Top
Mar 6, 2019
2,264
5,821
AFL Club
Melbourne
Also bring a skills coach in. Freo should have won if not for Pavlich, Fyfe, Ballantyne and co missing shots they should have nailed. Same scoring shots and we kicked it out on the full a couple of times as well. Can't blame Lyon for that?

View attachment 993406
The old ‘if players on my team didn’t miss goals we would have won’ trick. It doesn’t work like that.
 

Freomaniac

Brownlow Medallist
May 3, 2007
21,997
11,209
Parts Unknown
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
Man City, Valencia, Lazio, Panthers
The old ‘if players on my team didn’t miss goals we would have won’ trick. It doesn’t work like that.
Well if the demons finished 8th instead because of 9th in the 2017 and 2020 seasons, would that make Simon Goodwin a better coach? Absolutely
 

Damon_3388

Premium Platinum
Jun 23, 2008
33,485
27,159
Headed for Kirribilli House
AFL Club
Collingwood
Other Teams
Norwood, Everton, Detroit Red Wings
well one of his biggest knocks was not playing youth, that thoery was thrown out the window in that 2016-19 years
He's always played the best players his list has to offer, regardless of their age, to win games. That's really what every coach should be doing, trying to win now. Possibly being a good side in 5 years isn't any more important or valuable than being a competitive or winning side now.
 

Freomaniac

Brownlow Medallist
May 3, 2007
21,997
11,209
Parts Unknown
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
Man City, Valencia, Lazio, Panthers
Fremantle has spent 5 years in the doldrums playing a dismal brand of football because of Lyon's decisions. His list was completely mishandled.
Again..... Because we had an ageing squad in 2015.

Plus Freo has played a lot of youth in the last 5;years.

Not to mention since each season since 2015, Freo has been crippled with injury in the 2nd half of the season.

So there are a few factors why Freo has been Diabolical in the last 5 years.
 

Cotchins Hair Piece

Bouffant Flat Top
Mar 6, 2019
2,264
5,821
AFL Club
Melbourne
Well if the demons finished 8th instead because of 9th in the 2017 and 2020 seasons, would that make Simon Goodwin a better coach? Absolutely
Nuh he’d still be shizen
 

Freomaniac

Brownlow Medallist
May 3, 2007
21,997
11,209
Parts Unknown
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
Man City, Valencia, Lazio, Panthers
Has no tactics.
Debatable. He dealt with a limited squad. I liked Matt de Boer but he wasn't going to get all Australian honours or Brownlow medals at either at Freo or GWS.

But Ross Lyon turned guys like Matt DeBoer, Cam Sutcliffe, Nick Suban, Clancee Pearce and Tom Sheridan etc from average Players to role players that played finals in that 2012-15 period.

Compare the 2 forward lines of the 2013 GF teams

Freos forward line......

HF: Nathan Fyfe, Chris Mayne, Cam Sutcliffe
FF: Michael Walters, Matthew Pavlich, Zac Clarke

Ballantyne was on the Bench

Hawks

HF: Luke Breust, Lance Franklin, Cyril Rioli
FF: Paul Puopolo, Jarryd Roughead, David Hale

Gunston was on the Bench


So who had the better forward line?

You are deluded if you think Freos forwardline in 2013 would beat the hawks forward line in a shoot out. That was not even possible.


Lyon only had one decent KPF and that was an Ageing Pav. Chris Mayne is not a KPF the bloke is only 185 cm. Still kicked 35 goals and 10 behinds in 2013 though.



Again...... Ross Lyon had to work with a Limited forward line.

At least your GWS team of 2015-18 had Cameron, Patton and a KPF ruck in Rory Lobb to work with.
 

Sainter3and7

Premium Gold
Apr 29, 2013
1,408
3,034
AFL Club
St Kilda
If Ross Lyon is a snake oil salesman. Describe Alan Richardson and his 6 years as saints coach then? LoL
We have a saying in our house (which developed as a result of decades of spudding it up)... "they St Kilda'd it."

E.g. Alan Jeans and his players get St. Kilda its one and only premiership. They don't pay them what they owe them. People like Allan Jeans leave the club. Premiership players take a fraction of cents in the dollar of what they are owed.

Stan Alves gets St Kilda to its first grand final in decades. They get rid of him soon after.

Ross Lyon gets St Kilda to its first grand final in decades... then another. Asks for a longer contract. They don't sign him and he gets a better offer and leaves. They sign spuds instead who deliver nothing.

They EXTEND the contract of the spud with the lowest winning percentage in history, till he is the second longest serving coach in club history.

Consistent theme: they St Kilda it.

And God it sucks to be a Saints supporter, following a team that is so often spudding it up. I'm in my 50s and have never seen the Saints win a premiership. In my time, new clubs like Sydney, Brisbane, and West Coast have won multiple flags, and we haven't. We have over a hundred more years in the league than them. We have only one more flag (and have existed a hundred years more) than Freemantle or Gold Coast. Freemantle has won a higher percentage of their games than us.
We have played over 2400 games, for one premiership. The Bulldogs, who are also perennial underdogs (see what I did there?), have twice as many flags as us, and their supporters who are my age have seen them win flags. Melbourne hasn't won a flag during my time... but at least they can say that in their history, they've won 12.

Fitzroy, before being brutally murdered by the AFL/VFL, won eight times as many premierships as us.

For most Saints fans (i.e. those born after 1966), Grand Final day is just a day for sadness, resentment, jealousy, anger and regret.

I wish the Tigers fans good luck and happy times. That's what you get to do as a Saints fan... lose graciously, if you've got class. Lose bitterly, if you don't. Even as fans, compared to other fans, we get to St Kilda it.
 
Last edited:

Darren Moore

Debutant
Oct 17, 2020
132
214
AFL Club
Sydney
Debatable. He dealt with a limited squad. I liked Matt de Boer but he wasn't going to get all Australian honours or Brownlow medals at either at Freo or GWS.

But Ross Lyon turned guys like Matt DeBoer, Cam Sutcliffe, Nick Suban, Clancee Pearce and Tom Sheridan etc from average Players to role players that played finals in that 2012-15 period.

Compare the 2 forward lines of the 2013 GF teams

Freos forward line......

HF: Nathan Fyfe, Chris Mayne, Cam Sutcliffe
FF: Michael Walters, Matthew Pavlich, Zac Clarke

Ballantyne was on the Bench

Hawks

HF: Luke Breust, Lance Franklin, Cyril Rioli
FF: Paul Puopolo, Jarryd Roughead, David Hale

Gunston was on the Bench


So who had the better forward line?

You are deluded if you think Freos forwardline in 2013 would beat the hawks forward line in a shoot out. That was not even possible.


Lyon only had one decent KPF and that was an Ageing Pav. Chris Mayne is not a KPF the bloke is only 185 cm. Still kicked 35 goals and 10 behinds in 2013 though.



Again...... Ross Lyon had to work with a Limited forward line.

At least your GWS team of 2015-18 had Cameron, Patton and a KPF ruck in Rory Lobb to work with.
It's only a limited forward line because they were playing in a side with an ultra defensive gameplan.

Walters in a Clarko forward line would be one of the great small forwards to have ever played the game.

Rioli in a Lyon forward line where he has to scramble back 50m with the flight of the ball wouldn't be much more effective than a Ballantyne.

At the end of the day Lyon had huge offensive weapons like Pavlich, Walters, Fyfe up forward in 2013 yet was only 12th best for scoring.
 

Freomaniac

Brownlow Medallist
May 3, 2007
21,997
11,209
Parts Unknown
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
Man City, Valencia, Lazio, Panthers
It's only a limited forward line because they were playing in a side with an ultra defensive gameplan.

Walters in a Clarko forward line would be one of the great small forwards to have ever played the game.

Rioli in a Lyon forward line where he has to scramble back 50m with the flight of the ball wouldn't be much more effective than a Ballantyne.

At the end of the day Lyon had huge offensive weapons like Pavlich, Walters, Fyfe up forward in 2013 yet was only 12th best for scoring.
Yet I look at that Swans forward line in that 2012 Grand final. Yet they kicked 14.7.91 to win the Flag.

the thing that shocked me was that 2012 swans side Scored 2290 points in 22 regular season games. Thats just over 104 points a game.

Again..... You Claim Lyon had huge offensive weapons such as Pavlich Walters and Fyfe.

Walters lead freos goal kicking in 2013 with 46 goals.


Nothing wrong with a defensive playing style. Imagine if Freo has Kurt Tippett instead of Zac Clarke in 2013 as a FF/Ruckman and Buddy Franklin intead of chris mayne as CHF in that 2013 GF.
 

Nolo180

All Australian
Sep 17, 2014
944
1,342
Somewhere in time
AFL Club
Fremantle
Lyons natural instinct as a coach was to defend & play the stoppage game never committing players to the outside or to get too far forward of the ball. His only form of attack was kick it long to the hotspot.
The AFL did everything it could to modify the rules of the game to counteract everything that played to his strengths as a tactician and would help explain the poor back half of his coaching career. He had changed some of his philosophies in the later years but the defensive undertones were still there and he always struggled to get the team scoring freely. Every preseason it was always "weve tweaked a few things here and there" but at that amount of rate of change we would of never of had a winning game plan since the game would of evolved again.
He would perhaps make a good defensive line coach but thats about it.
 

Remove this Banner Ad