Ross Lyon

[mysainters]

like a Big Mac. Tastes good now, makes you sick in the long run.

You lost me there

 

[StFly]

Line coach / Advisor.

Lyon to me was and is a walking contradiction who excels at the things he also fails at.

He has good to great media presence, he presents well, he's articulate and he'll give you as much detail as he can to ensure you understand where he is coming from, why he is coming from that direction and where that direction is going to go <-> at the same time he will ostracise you, close off everything else from you and deny access to even the most basic of information, things which are fundamental. The media love him for him, but hate him for the coach, the club, the job.

He works will with players, he ensures they understand the fundamentals, they excel at them, they are trained to peak performance and they are taught to do this instinctively, to sacrifice for each other, to bring each other up, to surpass heights as a team <-> but this will be a closed group, everyone outside of this group will be bereft of chance, they will be lacking in focus their development will seem and in some cases be regressed as the focus is elsewhere. They will however see the zealotry and the success the core group has and will stick around in a hope to break in and be a part of such a ferocious beast.

The board will love him, he will bring ideas, he will bring expansion, and with the immediate success will come an increase in the off field capacity of supporters to members, sponsors to success, of tying into the media darling to get the message out and build the brand which was recently tarnished by a massive board falling out and power trip (Butterss v GT BTW) <-> but they will be constantly watching over their shoulder because with this comes the sword, he will not consolidate, he will grow, he will consume, and he will seek to do more far too quickly and either burn out or grow to the point where a crash is inevitable.

The first section is evidenced by his appointment to the mid term, the "shimmy" the "glide" the how good is it to be a Saint during this time of growth whilst at the same time "Lyons a harsh taskmaster" "several players & coaches want out", "overbearing nature of the club" "the bubble" culminating in Lyon severing ties with "convention" (dealing with managers) and striking out to leave with no prior notice; his way or his way and how they spun the press conference.

The second evidenced by results, 2 GF appearances despite many of the younger brigade stagnating, regressing, leaving or being forced out of the door, but how close were we to back to back flags? Focus on the positives of this playing list that's excelling instead of that other stuff.

The third because of where we are now from where we came from. Out football department was a dilapidated shoe box infested with termites who had punched on with the granny who lived in the shoe that once lived there. It has since grown both in personnel and in finances to give the list the best we can currently give them to succeed. But at the same time Lyon v Pelchen, Lyon v the board, rumours of his behaviour change, how he conducted himself at times where always around.

He would be brilliant in Laidleys role, dissecting a gameplan, finding weakness, positioning, empowering players, envisioning players, but that's it, that's all.

I view head coaches in 3 categories;

Leaders; those that inspire the players to follow the plans, they instill a desire in the players who may not have believed to believe as thus do they try harder, excel further and grow as players.
Impact; those that instill a fire, the belief is there already, they simply take it to an extreme and demand excellence and nothing less. Through the power of force, be it tone, posture or action they impact the group into action based on sheer fanatic desire.
Scholars; Everything is analysed and discussed you can never have too many plans for any number of games just as any player can play a single position differently so you need to understand how to combat this in order to grow, as with knowledge comes power to influence a game.

Ross is an impact coach, GT was a leader, Watters is bordering on a Scholar. You can mix & max sure, but as an impact coach, in any capacity you will always, without fail, have friction be it with the media (image / supporters) the club (employer) or the club (employees) which is what we needed, we need a foreceful hand after GT's love in we needed to turn that belief into action and we needed to screw the flint and bring a fire, just as now, we need an even handed approach, we need vision and we need to see the ruin that fire brought us before the embers flicker back to life and take more than we have to give.

 

[tbarker]

Ross Lyon was a quality strategist and his game plan was, for better or for worse, revolutionary.

However, for all his success on the field (discounting a way-ward bounce and a pesky toe-poke), our team was in shambles off the field.

- Player development was way down. Instead of putting some confidence in the younger blokes like the good teams do (see: Collingwood, Geelong), Lyon went with entrusting the duties to players that would not help us in the long run (Peake, Polo etc.) What that means is while you may have a period of success, it will not be sustained in the long run. So even if we did come away with 1-2 premierships, we would still be in this crappy situation now. Not good enough. A football club is more than just 1-2 years of success every now and then.

- Player management was terrible. As mentioned, there are strong rumours to suggest that the some of the few talented young blokes we had drafted would be playing elsewhere if Lyon had stayed. They just weren't getting a fair go or any reward for their efforts. Why stay and be behind a Peake when you should be at the point of cementing a spot in the 22? Not just that but a few older players like Ball electing to leave. I think I remember reading somewhere that it had something to do with Lyon either not playing him or not letting him properly recover from injury?

- The damn 'bubble'. I still think we're seeing the after-effects of the bubble still in place right now. While the club has definitely opened up a lot more with Watters at the helm, it's no secret that we are way behind in areas like social media. It was never fully embraced in the Lyon era and as a result has fallen by the way-side in terms of priorities. Of course, this effects our club's ability to market itself, which is directly linked to membership numbers.

Lyon is like a Big Mac. Tastes good now, makes you sick in the long run.

Yes mate - I had a long talk with his father about it all and Luke Ball left because of Lyon alone.

 

[sammm]

Line coach / Advisor.

Lyon to me was and is a walking contradiction who excels at the things he also fails at.

He has good to great media presence, he presents well, he's articulate and he'll give you as much detail as he can to ensure you understand where he is coming from, why he is coming from that direction and where that direction is going to go <-> at the same time he will ostracise you, close off everything else from you and deny access to even the most basic of information, things which are fundamental. The media love him for him, but hate him for the coach, the club, the job.

He works will with players, he ensures they understand the fundamentals, they excel at them, they are trained to peak performance and they are taught to do this instinctively, to sacrifice for each other, to bring each other up, to surpass heights as a team <-> but this will be a closed group, everyone outside of this group will be bereft of chance, they will be lacking in focus their development will seem and in some cases be regressed as the focus is elsewhere. They will however see the zealotry and the success the core group has and will stick around in a hope to break in and be a part of such a ferocious beast.

The board will love him, he will bring ideas, he will bring expansion, and with the immediate success will come an increase in the off field capacity of supporters to members, sponsors to success, of tying into the media darling to get the message out and build the brand which was recently tarnished by a massive board falling out and power trip (Butterss v GT BTW) <-> but they will be constantly watching over their shoulder because with this comes the sword, he will not consolidate, he will grow, he will consume, and he will seek to do more far too quickly and either burn out or grow to the point where a crash is inevitable.

The first section is evidenced by his appointment to the mid term, the "shimmy" the "glide" the how good is it to be a Saint during this time of growth whilst at the same time "Lyons a harsh taskmaster" "several players & coaches want out", "overbearing nature of the club" "the bubble" culminating in Lyon severing ties with "convention" (dealing with managers) and striking out to leave with no prior notice; his way or his way and how they spun the press conference.

The second evidenced by results, 2 GF appearances despite many of the younger brigade stagnating, regressing, leaving or being forced out of the door, but how close were we to back to back flags? Focus on the positives of this playing list that's excelling instead of that other stuff.

The third because of where we are now from where we came from. Out football department was a dilapidated shoe box infested with termites who had punched on with the granny who lived in the shoe that once lived there. It has since grown both in personnel and in finances to give the list the best we can currently give them to succeed. But at the same time Lyon v Pelchen, Lyon v the board, rumours of his behaviour change, how he conducted himself at times where always around.

He would be brilliant in Laidleys role, dissecting a gameplan, finding weakness, positioning, empowering players, envisioning players, but that's it, that's all.

I view head coaches in 3 categories;

Leaders; those that inspire the players to follow the plans, they instill a desire in the players who may not have believed to believe as thus do they try harder, excel further and grow as players.
Impact; those that instill a fire, the belief is there already, they simply take it to an extreme and demand excellence and nothing less. Through the power of force, be it tone, posture or action they impact the group into action based on sheer fanatic desire.
Scholars; Everything is analysed and discussed you can never have too many plans for any number of games just as any player can play a single position differently so you need to understand how to combat this in order to grow, as with knowledge comes power to influence a game.

Ross is an impact coach, GT was a leader, Watters is bordering on a Scholar. You can mix & max sure, but as an impact coach, in any capacity you will always, without fail, have friction be it with the media (image / supporters) the club (employer) or the club (employees) which is what we needed, we need a foreceful hand after GT's love in we needed to turn that belief into action and we needed to screw the flint and bring a fire, just as now, we need an even handed approach, we need vision and we need to see the ruin that fire brought us before the embers flicker back to life and take more than we have to give.

Lyon learn to begood at the media. in his first year he was pretty bad, most of us here as well the media either cringed. he grew grew into it. and by part way through his 2nd year he had a much better media presence.

 

[HoldenMCaulfield]

Yes mate - I had a long talk with his father about it all and Luke Ball left because of Lyon alone.

And Goddard left because of the money alone ?

I find it interesting that our senior players appear to have far less of a problem with Goddard leaving than they appeared to have with Ball leaving at the time - can't all be due to the fact that this group knows they will not win a premiership together now ?

Lyon got us very very close to that premiership - that was his #1 goal. And not all our current problems are his fault.

But he did steal my parking spot once. Ba$?@rd !

 

[Q TRAIN]

He ended up being a money chasing grub co's he had a few financial problems and our gameplan was so ridged and low scoring that if you werent a Saints supporter you absolutely hated watching the Saints play.
But he went within a bees d!ck of being a back 2 back Premiership Coach at Stkilda wich considering our history wouldve been one of the AFL's greatest ever storys.
Although i havnt really been left with too many warm & fuzzy feelings about him , THE MAN COULD SERIOUSLY COACH.
I think if he got to Freo maybe 2 yrs earlier when Pav and Sandilands were a little younger and not so injury prone he mightve had a crack at a couple of flags there as well. Not so sure now.
As for Scotty coaching ability, its too early to tell.

 

[FlyingSledghamer]

I love RL as a coach but Scott's a better development coach. He's the kind of coach we need right now.

 

[Squizz]

I'll post this on the Players Board, but it's another insight into what the culture was.

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/afl/afl-news/the-makeorbreak-experiment-20130606-2nt9l.html

(Blake McGrath was) told he would be given three or four years to develop, he soon discovered the AFL system wrestles with the idea of a slow burn. At a Gold Coast camp in late 2008, days after arriving at the club, he "got mauled by pretty much every bloke on the track".

He worked mainly with development coach Danny Sexton, and felt himself improve with every session. He remembers speaking rarely to then coach Ross Lyon, "mainly when I was in trouble".

Putting on weight ran counter to all the running, so he was sent home in the off-season on a program to bulk up.

The first day back was a four-kilometre time trial. "I thought, 'Shit!"' says McGrath, who'd stuck religiously to his program, which did not feature running. He beat only one player home — infamously, recruit Andrew Lovett.

"I got pulled out in front of the group, told how embarrassing it was," he says, wishing he had had the courage to say he had just been following orders. A senior player quizzed him later, and the next day Lyon called him out of the weights room and apologised. Nick Riewoldt told him, "You've gotta take that — Rossy never apologises to anyone!"

As the second season ground on he felt like he was in a subgroup, with others who were on the way out.

The phone call came the day after the 2010 best and fairest, a summons to a meeting where he was told he had made progress but, sorry, not enough. He was numb for hours, then shook himself and moved on. "That's sport, I've seen it happen before. I still love the Saints now, I've got nothing against them."

 

[stkildathunda]

He remembers speaking rarely to then coach Ross Lyon, "mainly when I was in trouble".



That speaks volumes about RL as a coach and is echoed by alot young players that were under his reign.

 

[mysainters]

He remembers speaking rarely to then coach Ross Lyon, "mainly when I was in trouble".



That speaks volumes about RL as a coach and is echoed by alot young players that were under his reign.

It's also why it's not a massive issue if some senior guys aren't enjoying not being in some elite group, we need Scott to tap into the next gen.

 

[CHBench]

For all those bitching about how we lost him, do you really think he was the man for the job that's currently in front of us? The job description changed in 2010.

That article, the senior/youngster divide, the fact we were a about to face a player exodus had he stayed is all the proof you need.

Hes great at getting the best out of mature players all ready in the system, but terrible at nurturing new ones into the fold.

Some may think we're in deep shit now, even after the players the new regime have brought along in 1.5 yrs (Wright, Newnes, Ross, Webster, Sip, Saad - Armo, Stanley, Geary, Steven going from strength to strength, so too McEvoy but hes been on an upwards trajectory, DYLAN ROBERTON FFS, prime example!) Imagine where we'd be if we had Ross Lyon shredding guys like Saad and Newnes every time they made a rookie error!

If only this type of work happened 4 years ago under Ross' watch there wouldn't be so much work to do now. (I really wonder what would've happened had we ignored their birth certificates and featured Jack Steven or David Armitage in the 09/10 seasons ahead of the McQualters and Eddy's of the team - I tend to rue the controllables, rather than a bounce of the ball. Another controllable I rue, The Luke Ball fiasco, cost us 2 premierships. He was the one very thing Collingwood needed to complete their team and Ross delivered it on a silver ****ing platter. He'd be pretty handy right about now hey? Ross got us close, but he also made some disastrous errors that killed him and us in the end)

 

[Persevering Saint]

Fact is, if Ross was still with us, the results would not be better than they are now. And he would have been sacked anyway, probably around about now, both for not fixing the problems, and for having partially created the problems in the first place.

 

[Nutsngum]

Fact is, if Ross was still with us, the results would not be better than they are now. And he would have been sacked anyway, probably around about now, both for not fixing the problems, and for having partially created the problems in the first place.

No, instead we could be facing a Demons like problem of no chance of winning any games. Despite our terrible drop off this year there is still a lot of talent within the team and a huge amount of experience that will still pull together at times to pull off wins. As people have said, that talent would have moved elsewhere had Lyon stayed around.

 

[goodie23]

All this is a preview of what Freo fans get to enjoy in a few years

 

[CHBench]

Unless they get a premiership, if not, well....

 

[THEROO 09]

Yes mate - I had a long talk with his father about it all and Luke Ball left because of Lyon alone.

Totally agree Barks Luke Ball would still be at the Saints if it wasn't for Lyon and maybe just maybe we would have had a premiership if he had left him on the ground that day

 

[Defacto]

Which is funny because heaps rate Freo's list as better than our 09 one. Their list is pretty overrated IMO.

couldnt agree more. i have been saying for a while now that ross last year walked into a similar list as we had in 2010, the difference is he needed a year to get them going like 2007. so the timing was probably 2-3 years too late

wont get near a flag IMO as he just doesnt have the cattle and he wont be able to develop the cattle to improve their list

having said that if they can get buddy and 1 or 2 more players he might be in with a chance

 

[Studbuddy]

Well if we still had Luke Ball, would Armo still be at the club? I remember at the time being frustrated with Ross having Armo in and out of the squad and surely he would have left to another club for more opportunity.

 

[Q TRAIN]

Just talking about wether our list would be better or weaker if Ross Lyon was still with us makes me realise how F-ing amazing Geelongs list management has been . In 2006 they finished 10th wich was there last BAD season.7 years later with 3 flags without any bottoming out to get high draft picks they are still a contender . They even lost arguably their best player and didnt miss a beat.
Like them or loathe them they are a Truly well run club.
They turned a club in a premiership drought to an absolute powerhouse. Im very jealous indeed. Hopefully one day we can copy their success

 

[SaintsSeptember]

To me the big shame of it all was that player development did not need to suffer, its not mutually exclusive. Just because we cant give them senior games doesn't mean they cant develop.
Cats and Swans both seem to be able to debut guys who make immediate impact after several years on the list.

 

[Q TRAIN]

To me the big shame of it all was that player development did not need to suffer, its not mutually exclusive. Just because we cant give them senior games doesn't mean they cant develop.
Cats and Swans both seem to be able to debut guys who make immediate impact after several years on the list.

Cats and Swans both have their own stand alone reserves teams dont they.
Maybe that helps their list develope a bit more.
But the "should we have our own reserves" argument always comes back to money. If we had the money like Cats, Swans, Coll and so on we prob would have our own reserves.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

All this is a preview of what Freo fans get to enjoy in a few years

I think Freo have someone heading up their footy department ( ie the Pelchen position ) above Lyon.
The mistake was thinking that Lyon could do it all, Thommo style.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I still think a VFL affiliate can work OK, IF ITS DONE RIGHT.

a) you cant just throw your "other 20" there and expect them to come out developed how you'd like them.
b) you may need to acknowledge the VFL club a bit and give them back some benefits for their compromises.

 

[sammm]

I think Freo have someone heading up their footy department ( ie the Pelchen position ) above Lyon.
The mistake was thinking that Lyon could do it all, Thommo style.

yes thats right, which probably means that freo will probalby not go down the same path as the saints.

 

[Axcellence]

I think Freo have someone heading up their footy department ( ie the Pelchen position ) above Lyon.
The mistake was thinking that Lyon could do it all, Thommo style.

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/index...ill-Got-a-Job-–-Fremantle’s-drafting!.857819/


If we can recruit Brad Lloyd...