Analysis Ross Lyon

[Unique Name]

Now I was going to posts these thoughts earlier in the week but thought it would be in poor taste to criticise the coach of a team going 9 - 0, after tonight's mess I feel we can discuss.

In the offseason Ross mentioned in a few interviews about certain aspects of coaching and team selection that could be improved upon. Basically said that in the past he always erred on the side of caution and took the conservative route.

Now over the first 9 rounds we went 9 - 0 and became the flags favourites, it's ours to lose, nobody can touch us, yada yada. But each week we always had a few under performers. Ballas, Suban, Duffield, Sutcliffe, Clarke, Hill, Tabs. They never all played poorly at once so the team as a whole could cover. Then in the changes thread we would dicuss who to change out knowing full well Ross doesn't like to change a winning side.

Now to my criticism of Ross, he believes that the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. He values team stability and consistency very highly. Plenty of times he has said that the boys play themselves in and play themselves out of the best 22.

But where's the evidence of this. Nobody's been dropped for poor performances and the Peel boys that have done well haven't been reward for good form.

Well tonight the parts didn't work and the Freo train has had come to a temporary stop. So now Ross has to either back up his words and make a statement or continue with minimal changes as usual.

If he doesn't the Peel side (our depth) will start to wonder what's the point of trying now. Won't get picked unless injuries occur.

So what are people's thoughts on Ross so far?

 

[imperial_oz]

Now I was going to posts these thoughts earlier in the week but thought it would be in poor taste to criticise the coach of a team going 9 - 0, after tonight's mess I feel we can discuss.

In the offseason Ross mentioned in a few interviews about certain aspects of coaching and team selection that could be improved upon. Basically said that in the past he always erred on the side of caution and took the conservative route.

Now over the first 9 rounds we went 9 - 0 and became the flags favourites, it's ours to lose, nobody can touch us, yada yada. But each week we always had a few under performers. Ballas, Suban, Duffield, Sutcliffe, Clarke, Hill, Tabs. They never all played poorly at once so the team as a whole could cover. Then in the changes thread we would dicuss who to change out knowing full well Ross doesn't like to change a winning side.

Now to my criticism of Ross, he believes that the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. He values team stability and consistency very highly. Plenty of times he has said that the boys play themselves in and play themselves out of the best 22.

But where's the evidence of this. Nobody's been dropped for poor performances and the Peel boys that have done well haven't been reward for good form.

Well tonight the parts didn't work and the Freo train has had come to a temperary stop. So now Ross has to either back up his words and make a statement or continue with minimal changes as par.

If he doesn't the Peel side (our depth) will start to wonder what's the point of trying now. Won't get picked unless loads of Injuries occur.

So what are people's thoughts on Ross so far?

9 - 1 doesn't change my mind. He's adjusted the game plan and we are more effective this year.

I don't see a need to change players without a damn good reason and one or two off games isn't a damn good reason

 

[clogged]

He's a great managerial coach. In the EPL where you can plan for a full season and premierships are determined by wins and losses alone, he'd win a premiership every year.

He's not going to drop players unless it's completely obvious they are under performing. The risk vs reward equation does not make it worth it for him.

 

[Lach72]

I'd like more Spurr types at the back than Duffield type.

If he wet blankets any more contests I'll stab my eyes out.

Let's have a look at Brady grey.
Mzungu in. Crozier stays in

Blakely could change things up.
Weller possibly to give Danyle a rest.

The other one I find interesting is Langdon. The kid has something and we could see a Suban come out for him.

We could do most of that this week. Interesting times

 

[Square Peg]

He's a fantastic coach, in the top 2 or 3 in the league, but surprise surprise he isn't perfect.
It is only natural that someone who is better than almost anyone else at what he does is sometimes badly undone. When that happens your greatest strength, that has got you to where you are at the top of the game in the first place, can look like your greatest weakness.


P.S. Hill is not an underperformer

 

[Righteo]

I'd like more Spurr types at the back than Duffield type.

If he wet blankets any more contests I'll stab my eyes out.

Let's have a look at Brady grey.
Mzungu in. Crozier stays in

Blakely could change things up.
Weller possibly to give Danyle a rest.

The other one I find interesting is Langdon. The kid has something and we could see a Suban come out for him.

We could do most of that this week. Interesting times

I'm with you Lach. Duff's pea hearted efforts were offset to a degree by great team defence and his ability to rebound effectively by taking the game on and drilling bullets up the ground. If he can't kick or defend anymore, and at 30 years of age, well he's an obvious target for replacement.

We've been carrying him this year, needs another spell at Peel.

 

[electricfeel]

Duffield has always been a poor defender. I can't remember not ever cringing every time I watch him one on one with someone.

 

[Scham]

I'd like more Spurr types at the back than Duffield type.

If he wet blankets any more contests I'll stab my eyes out.

Let's have a look at Brady grey.
Mzungu in. Crozier stays in

Blakely could change things up.
Weller possibly to give Danyle a rest.

The other one I find interesting is Langdon. The kid has something and we could see a Suban come out for him.

We could do most of that this week. Interesting times

Langdons a good'n. How tall is he? Could he play Ibbo's role while Ibbo plays Jonno's?

I have no doubt that Weller is the long term Pearce replacement and whilst Grey doesnt have the class of some others, he will bring effort ala Spurr.

 

[beetz]

Yep, get rid of him

 

[leeloo]

Yeah Peel are going great.

 

[Unique Name]

Yeah Peel are going great.

Where did I or anyone say Peel were going great? My point was about the conservative approach to match selection and the unwillingness to change individuals. This is something Ross stated in the off season he needed to improve upon but I have yet to see him change his ways.

Don't think this thread is knocking his coaching ability because it's not, he's by far the best coach we've ever had. But for example Sutcliffe has been below average for quite a few games now yet continues to get games over players like Mzungu who has performed very well at Peel.

 

[DudleyDocker]

Yeah Peel are going great.

Peel are going terrible at the moment, I think we should bolster them with Duffied, Sutcliffe, Suban, Sheridan and Clarke for a couple of games.

Probably need to elevate Mzungu, Weller, Blakely, Hannath and Langdon to do it - make it happen Ross.

 

[Pusswah]

lol

 

[FreoRicci]

I'd like more Spurr types at the back than Duffield type.

If he wet blankets any more contests I'll stab my eyes out.

Let's have a look at Brady grey.
Mzungu in. Crozier stays in

Blakely could change things up.
Weller possibly to give Danyle a rest.

The other one I find interesting is Langdon. The kid has something and we could see a Suban come out for him.

We could do most of that this week. Interesting times

Smart changes. Croizer offers a lot and looks dangerous. Mzungu coming in this week against Gold Coast will be perfect, a fit mature body. I'd say Lyon won't be going over the top with changes, possibly 2-3 at most 4. Duffield is often picked on by Ross. After the Saints debacle last year, can't go to Gold Coast thinking it's an easy W and have an easy break week after. Maybe one or two debutants in Weller and Blakely but thats it. 10-1 would be perfect for the confident and the second half of the season.

 

[TheInjuryFactory]

Peel are going terrible at the moment, I think we should bolster them with Duffied, Sutcliffe, Suban, Sheridan and Clarke for a couple of games.

Probably need to elevate Mzungu, Weller, Blakely, Hannath and Langdon to do it - make it happen Ross.

No way. Weller, Blakely and Langdon are a long way off yet mate. 2016 perhaps, but not this year. Still getting their asses handed to them at Peel, what makes you think they are ready for AFL???

Muz and Mammoth probably deserve to come in with a few deserving a spell at Peel, but there's no point playing youth before they are ready for the sake of getting games into them at the expense of team balance. This is our last full bore tilt at a flag, next year we can ring in the changes.

 

[clogged]

No reason to keep Duffield in over someone like Blakely.

 

[salim malik]

Stupid, stupid over the top reactions.Hawthorn got jumped by Port and Sydney had a shocker against Gws .Has their train stopped.

 

[clogged]

Stupid, stupid over the top reactions.Hawthorn got jumped by Port and Sydney had a shocker against GPS? Has their train stopped.

Hawthorn came back to almost win it against Port and who is GPS?

Freo lost by five goals in spite of winning all the key stats. Hardwick figured out Ross and there are better coaches than Hardwick.

 

[blue shark]

No way. Weller, Blakely and Langdon are a long way off yet mate. 2016 perhaps, but not this year. Still getting their asses handed to them at Peel, what makes you think they are ready for AFL???

Muz and Mammoth probably deserve to come in with a few deserving a spell at Peel, but there's no point playing youth before they are ready for the sake of getting games into them at the expense of team balance. This is our last full bore tilt at a flag, next year we can ring in the changes.

This is what the Sub role is for, in home games, or games we are expected to win easily. I disagree that this is our last chance of a flag,
next year is also a possibility, if we blood some players this year, we are too conservative sometimes.
Have a look at Duggan at the eagles, and then look at Weller/Blakey/Langdon.

 

[TheInjuryFactory]

This is what the Sub role is for, in home games, or games we are expected to win easily. I disagree that this is our last chance of a flag,
next year is also a possibility, if we blood some players this year, we are too conservative sometimes.
Have a look at Duggan at the eagles, and then look at Weller/Blakey/Langdon.

I would disagree. The sub is for impact or structure change most of the time. WCE rookies were drafted for immediate impact, our boys weren't.

Have a look at Peel mate, they are going rubbish with those same guys you mentioned against WAFL nobodies as has been mentioned previously. We're 9-1 and I think last night proved there are no games that we can comfortably expect to win as last night is a harsh reminder of that.

clogged you are right, no room for Duff to hide and Sutcliffe probably needs a spell too, Spurr can come back in for one and Mzungu for another. Keep Crozier in, maybe give Clarke a spell at Peel for Hannath or Griff. Not anti changes for players who can come in and have more impact but not for the sake of blooding youth. We would risk further H&A losses which would severely jeopardise our top 2 chances this year, and then by proxy our flag hopes.

Clearly our old spine is hanging on by a thread, that was clear to see last night. If we win it all then Elvis, Pav and maybe Sandi hang up the boots. If we don't we would probably still lose one or two of them to retirement, and those left would have to be managed again in 2016 and nursed through a year again, with the hope they can make it through unscathed to the pointy end of the year.

 

[MadDocker]

We're 9-1. Ross is pretty good.

Keen to see Grey get a chance in the bigs over Duff though. Spurr and Grey back there would have some forwards ands resting midfielders pretty nervous I reckon.

 

[salim malik]

Hawthorn came back to almost win it against Port and who is GPS?

Freo lost by five goals in spite of winning all the key stats. Hardwick figured out Ross and there are better coaches than Hardwick.

So by your reasoning HINKLEY figured out CLARKSON and there are better coaches than HINKLEY.
So what does that make CLARKSON

 

[DudleyDocker]

No way. Weller, Blakely and Langdon are a long way off yet mate. 2016 perhaps, but not this year. Still getting their asses handed to them at Peel, what makes you think they are ready for AFL???

Muz and Mammoth probably deserve to come in with a few deserving a spell at Peel, but there's no point playing youth before they are ready for the sake of getting games into them at the expense of team balance. This is our last full bore tilt at a flag, next year we can ring in the changes.

Have you seen Duggan at all? He was no better at WAFL level that Weller. Sometimes WAFL form is deceptive, as you are playing in a team made up of average players, whereas in an AFL team you can have a role and play it well.

I have been to every Peel game bar one and I think Weller, Blakely and perhaps Langdon are worth putting some games into.

Or we can just keep playing the same guys every week until they break down. Let's see how we look at the end of the year if we try to win a flag playing 26 players all year.

 

[TheMcManusNose]

Langdons a good'n. How tall is he? Could he play Ibbo's role while Ibbo plays Jonno's?

I have no doubt that Weller is the long term Pearce replacement and whilst Grey doesnt have the class of some others, he will bring effort ala Spurr.

Langdon is 181. Good mark but no Ibbo. I do like what i've seen of him in admittedly limited viewings, reckon he will be a good look at playing a Duffield/Spurr role in a year or two.

We do need to look at getting games into these kids, but the problem with bringing in guys like Grey, Weller or Blakely now is that it's not our mids who are under-performing. Duffield and Sutcliffe are probably the guys who've had quiet years so far but I frankly do not want Grey or Blakely having to kick out of the D50 (especially given we are using the corridor more now), nor do I want Weller stuck 1:1 with an AFL forward in his draft+1 year. The only way it works is if you start moving someone like Clancee or Danyle to the back-line which i'm not sure i'm prepared to do given how well both are playing this year.

 

[TheInjuryFactory]

Langdon is 181. Good mark but no Ibbo. I do like what i've seen of him in admittedly limited viewings, reckon he will be a good look at playing a Duffield/Spurr role in a year or two.

We do need to look at getting games into these kids, but the problem with bringing in guys like Grey, Weller or Blakely now is that it's not our mids who are under-performing. Duffield and Sutcliffe are probably the guys who've had quiet years so far but I frankly do not want Grey or Blakely having to kick out of the D50 (especially given we are using the corridor more now), nor do I want Weller stuck 1:1 with an AFL forward in his draft+1 year. The only way it works is if you start moving someone like Clancee or Danyle to the back-line which i'm not sure i'm prepared to do given how well both are playing this year.

This DudleyDocker

Hasn't seemed to do Hawthorn any harm playing their best players, haven't seen too many kids blooded over there unnecessarily the last couple years.

The guys likely to break down aren't going to be replaced by Blakely, Weller, Langdon or even Grey for that matter. Our midfield isn't the issue, we have plenty of depth with senior experience to cover the underperformers in the side. This isn't an experiment, it's our last strong chance at a flag with this current group. I haven't seen Duggan, but we aren't in the same position as the Eagles so it isn't really relevant. We have all the time in the world next year to get games into these guys, I'm not anti giving them a chance should the chance arise, but let's get Gu and Crozier and these guys in first hey?

Next year I will join the chorus for change, but those going this year are going too early.