Analysis Ross Lyon

[Square Peg]

Additionally, what other clubs have been able to do, and we tend to miss out on because we're in WA, is stock up on needs via trades. Fremantle doesn't get to take advantage of that too often, and when you think about it only the Eastern clubs really do, with some exceptions. God knows we've tried.

Excellent post but this bit is stretching it.

 

[tek87]

heard James Hird is available. might be perfect for some of the 'critics' on this thread. a point to consider is Freo had a better team 2 to 3 years ago in terms of age bracket of better players. i liked our chances then better than now. Makes the current record a fantastic result but deep down at our best I dont think we match the likes of Hawthorn. just reality. will be rapt to improve on last year's finals effort which in hindsight was not that bad considering the injuries late. would love an another grand final spot but our current form is not indicating that and given the lack of options/experience/form for our bottom 6 players and the once again nagging injuries to ageing legitimate champions in Pavlich and Mcpharlin is another worrying sign. but yeah its probably Lyon's fault, cant coach, has never tried anything different tactically or tried to score. NOT!

 

[theGav56]

heard James Hird is available. might be perfect for some of the 'critics' on this thread. a point to consider is Freo had a better team 2 to 3 years ago in terms of age bracket of better players. i liked our chances then better than now. Makes the current record a fantastic result but deep down at our best I dont think we match the likes of Hawthorn. just reality. will be rapt to improve on last year's finals effort which in hindsight was not that bad considering the injuries late. would love an another grand final spot but our current form is not indicating that and given the lack of options/experience/form for our bottom 6 players and the once again nagging injuries to ageing legitimate champions in Pavlich and Mcpharlin is another worrying sign. but yeah its probably Lyon's fault, cant coach, has never tried anything different tactically or tried to score. NOT!

Haha. Nice slant on it.

I actually don't think MacPharlin and Pavlich are injured beyond what most AFL players would be experiencing at this time of the season. MacPharlin OUT has come at a time when we have had tall defenders returning from injury and at a perfect time for him to refresh and get some niggles out of the way. If the games we had played were finals he would have suited up.

 

[PurpleWizard]

I hate to say it but I think our most important player is D.Pearce. If he's getting a lot of the ball it normally means we're counter attacking very well. Our strong attacking game depends on him finding some form/ball. This is why RTB sticks with him because he knows how important he is.

If D.Pearce does find form and MJ gets his touch back, I think we'll get back to our early season attacking best, and dare I say it be hard to beat come finals!

 

[Proud SJW]

I hate to say it but I think our most important player is D.Pearce. If he's getting a lot of the ball it normally means we're counter attacking very well. Our strong attacking game depends on him finding some form/ball. This is why RTB sticks with him because he knows how important he is.

If D.Pearce does find form and MJ gets his touch back, I think we'll get back to our early season attacking best, and dare I say it be hard to beat come finals!

Not our "most important", but I somewhat agree with this - he is a bit of what some nay-sayers call a downhill skier.
I think a team can carry one or two Danyle Pearce's, personally.

D Pearce was one of our best players in the first few games of the season, and that was when the team as a whole looked good. Chicken or egg scenario, perhaps, but I can see your point.

 

[Freo Blood]

We

I hate to say it but I think our most important player is D.Pearce. If he's getting a lot of the ball it normally means we're counter attacking very well. Our strong attacking game depends on him finding some form/ball. This is why RTB sticks with him because he knows how important he is.

If D.Pearce does find form and MJ gets his touch back, I think we'll get back to our early season attacking best, and dare I say it be hard to beat come finals!

we're f'd then, he can't be relied upon

 

[theGav56]

OMG, some love for D Pearce.

 

[PurpleWizard]

Maybe 'most important player' was bit of a exaggeration, but definitely good a barometer for our attacking game and ball movement.

 

[theGav56]

Maybe 'most important player' was bit of a exaggeration, but definitely good a barometer for our attacking game and ball movement.

Pearce plays a critical role in keeping the ball in our forward line. He is important.

 

[malpaso]

Excellent post but this bit is stretching it.

You don't have any information to the contrary.

 

[Kram]

OMG, some love for D Pearce.

 

[Square Peg]

You don't have any information to the contrary.

Yeah right, none except Bond talking ad nauseum about our list management model for 'sustained success', saying every recent trade period that we are going to sit on our hands unless we trade for pick upgrades

 

[Proud SJW]

Something interesting.
Debut players played by Club in 2015, second column is those who changed club. Got this of Wikipedia (as of round 19), then sorted it by ladder position:

Fremantle 2 0
West Coast 5 0
Hawthorn 2 2
Western Bulldogs 6 3
Richmond 6 1
Sydney 3 0
North Melbourne 1 2
Adelaide 4 1

Geelong 4 3
GWS 2 2
Collingwood 5 4
Port Adelaide 2 1
St Kilda 5 1
Melbourne 6 4
Essendon 2 4
Gold Coast 7 3
Brisbane Lions 5 3
Carlton 6 4

So, we didn't blood many this year. We knew that.

Neither did Hawthorn. Two change club trades (in Frawley and O'Rourke) which are list top up trades. Their two debutants have only played a single game each. When you add it up, the success of Pearce for us has meant we're way ahead of Hawthorn in terms of blooding new players.

Eagles had 5, but their injury list is beginning to demand they do so, it's not so much a matter of choice.

Bulldogs are a young team and, we have to admit, a surprise packet. They're a bit of an abberation, there's one team like this nearly every year.

Richmond have 6, but they're also a very inconsistent team, as we're all aware, and that may be a fairly good indicator as to why you don't play too many draftees when you're in the hunt for a flag. Only two have played consistently though - Macintosh and Ellis.

Sydney we know about - no trades. Still low, on 3. Of those, 1 game, 3 games and Heeney on 6.

North, 1 debutant and two traded players.

Adelaide, 4 and 1. Of the debs, 6 Games for Lever, and 3 or less for the others.

The numbers go up significantly once you leave the top 8. Damned good reason for that - you need to, because your current list isn't cutting it. Sometimes, like with the Bulldogs, it works. Most of the time, as evidenced by the numbers for the bottom 8, it doesn't do much other than get games into the lads for next year.

Lyon seems to be simply a coach who is doing exactly as nearly everyone else does, when you're on target for a finals appearance. I'm thinking he's going to change things up next year, but this year he's just doing what every other coach in the AFL does - play to your strengths when you're on top.

Clarkson, by way of comparison, obviously doesn't play da yoof, even when he has a few GF's under his belt. Terrible coach, obviously.

Apologies for the lack of formatting.

 

[theGav56]

Something interesting.
Debut players played by Club in 2015, second column is those who changed club. Got this of Wikipedia (as of round 19), then sorted it by ladder position:

Fremantle 2 0
West Coast 5 0
Hawthorn 2 2
Western Bulldogs 6 3
Richmond 6 1
Sydney 3 0
North Melbourne 1 2
Adelaide 4 1

Geelong 4 3
GWS 2 2
Collingwood 5 4
Port Adelaide 2 1
St Kilda 5 1
Melbourne 6 4
Essendon 2 4
Gold Coast 7 3
Brisbane Lions 5 3
Carlton 6 4

So, we didn't blood many this year. We knew that.

Neither did Hawthorn. Two change club trades (in Frawley and O'Rourke) which are list top up trades. Their two debutants have only played a single game each. When you add it up, the success of Pearce for us has meant we're way ahead of Hawthorn in terms of blooding new players.

Eagles had 5, but their injury list is beginning to demand they do so, it's not so much a matter of choice.

Bulldogs are a young team and, we have to admit, a surprise packet. They're a bit of an abberation, there's one team like this nearly every year.

Richmond have 6, but they're also a very inconsistent team, as we're all aware, and that may be a fairly good indicator as to why you don't play too many draftees when you're in the hunt for a flag. Only two have played consistently though - Macintosh and Ellis.

Sydney we know about - no trades. Still low, on 3. Of those, 1 game, 3 games and Heeney on 6.

North, 1 debutant and two traded players.

Adelaide, 4 and 1. Of the debs, 6 Games for Lever, and 3 or less for the others.

The numbers go up significantly once you leave the top 8. Damned good reason for that - you need to, because your current list isn't cutting it. Sometimes, like with the Bulldogs, it works. Most of the time, as evidenced by the numbers for the bottom 8, it doesn't do much other than get games into the lads for next year.

Lyon seems to be simply a coach who is doing exactly as nearly everyone else does, when you're on target for a finals appearance. I'm thinking he's going to change things up next year, but this year he's just doing what every other coach in the AFL does - play to your strengths when you're on top.

Clarkson, by way of comparison, obviously doesn't play da yoof, even when he has a few GF's under his belt. Terrible coach, obviously.

Apologies for the lack of formatting.

Seriously? You are going to introduce some facts and analysis? You are on the wrong website.

 

[Foleybrau]

heard James Hird is available. might be perfect for some of the 'critics' on this thread. a point to consider is Freo had a better team 2 to 3 years ago in terms of age bracket of better players. i liked our chances then better than now. Makes the current record a fantastic result but deep down at our best I dont think we match the likes of Hawthorn. just reality. will be rapt to improve on last year's finals effort which in hindsight was not that bad considering the injuries late. would love an another grand final spot but our current form is not indicating that and given the lack of options/experience/form for our bottom 6 players and the once again nagging injuries to ageing legitimate champions in Pavlich and Mcpharlin is another worrying sign. but yeah its probably Lyon's fault, cant coach, has never tried anything different tactically or tried to score. NOT!

I would argue we are better now. Fyfe, walters and Hill are more mature, got Ibbo firing, Sandi is actually better, etc. Not to mention we have pole position going into finals, something we have NEVER had. We do not rely on Pav and Luke as much as people tend to think. We could win it without Luke IMO

 

[Lach72]

Something interesting.
.

However of the genuine contenders I'd argue we have the most glaring deficiencies in ball movement and scoring, and a bottom 5 that are distinctly average.

We need that to change...playing De Boer and Suban etc doesn't make that happen

 

[theGav56]

However of the genuine contenders I'd argue we have the most glaring deficiencies in ball movement and scoring, and a bottom 5 that are distinctly average.

We need that to change...playing De Boer and Suban etc doesn't make that happen

Yes. Our coach rates knowledge of game plan and a high fitness base higher than skills in ball movement. So far it has got us to top of the table, which is clear evidence that it may just work.

By contrast the lack of fresh young players establishing themselves as regulars in those top sides is clear evidence that their inability to bring the required fitness base to their game is evidence that it is a critical quality they need to work on before premiership aspirational coaches will factor them in as serious contenders for the best 22.

 

[Lach72]

Yes. Our coach rates knowledge of game plan and a high fitness base higher than skills in ball movement. So far it has got us to top of the table, which is clear evidence that it may just work.

By contrast the lack of fresh young players establishing themselves as regulars in those top sides is clear evidence that their inability to bring the required fitness base to their game is evidence that it is a critical quality they need to work on before premiership aspirational coaches will factor them in as serious contenders for the best 22.

Or perhaps they're not as deficient in these areas as we are, so fitness and skill are equal?...and so far it has got us losses against 3 of the other contenders

How many times has Lyon sat in the presser and said this:
"Well look at the stats...we were dominant, inside fifty, possession...we just slaughtered the ball...didn't take opportunities...took bad options"

 

[Proud SJW]

However of the genuine contenders I'd argue we have the most glaring deficiencies in ball movement and scoring, and a bottom 5 that are distinctly average.

We need that to change...playing De Boer and Suban etc doesn't make that happen

True, but there must be something else we are doing that evens that out.
Hard work, IMO.

I don't disagree with the second part of that... although I'm beginning to think Suban isn't as detrimental as I thought he was earlier in the year. At least, not to the point where I think there is a ready replacement.

 

[Proud SJW]

OMG, some love for D Pearce.

Don't mind him at all. Poor disposal on occasion, but at least he's in a position to dispose of it poorly to begin with. We don't tend to notice the good things among all the clangers.
I like him. He wouldn't be highest on my "to do" list, if I were RTB.

Which is not in any way saying the clangers don't piss me off.

 

[Spoken4]

Don't mind him at all. Poor disposal on occasion, but at least he's in a position to dispose of it poorly to begin with. We don't tend to notice the good things among all the clangers.
I like him. He wouldn't be highest on my "to do" list, if I were RTB.

Which is not in any way saying the clangers don't piss me off.

An inform D Pearce and S Hill are devastatingly effective in the link between defense and offense.

 

[Peter Bosustow]

Don't care. De Boer is not good enough for a premiership team. Mzungu, Danyle Pearce very marginal

Ross is the best coach in the land by the length of the Flemington straight. He will break through this year and again in the future. The world needs more Ross Lyons, both in and out of football.

Seeing these names alongside the word 'premiership' made me think about blokes in Ross' bottom six from the St. Kilda GFs (Eddy, McQualter, Jones, Blake). They are proven, limited quantities and it is arguable that the exuberance of the young guys at the time like Armitage and Steven, coupled with the 'big stage', would have been of far greater value than the campaigners. Saw this first hand in 1993 when Essendon's young guns rolled our campaigner-ish bottom 10 players. On the other side of the coin, it worked for Ross in the 2010 drawn GF but is that an anomaly because Collingwood were such a young side? #circular

I vividly recall sitting in the stands at the 2013 GF thinking how pathetic Danyle Pearce was playing. He avoids scrutiny here over East for obvious reasons, but there have to be serious questions about his future at the club. I also recall thinking that day how Freo could only play one of Suban, Mzungu and De Boer. Suban broke even with Sewell and De Boer gave his all, but I pondered whether Sheridan, Crozier and even starting Neale on the field would have been better selections. So who would you prefer in your bottom six? Average campaigners or kids? Could Ross spring a surprise and play Weller and a couple of the young boys on the fringe with obvious upside in Rounds 22-23 and the finals?

Some of the nicest fans in the land wear purple. Hopefully the front of the paper in a few weeks reads 'SHOCKERS NO MORE' with a photo of Clive Waterhouse presenting the cup to Ross and Pav!

P.S That Alex Pearce boy can play!

 

[Kram]

I vividly recall sitting in the stands at the 2013 GF thinking how pathetic Danyle Pearce was playing. He avoids scrutiny here over East for obvious reasons, but there have to be serious questions about his future at the club.

imo we need to really try and get Lewis Jetta home, would be a massive upgrade on him.

 

[StingBitten]

I hate to say it but I think our most important player is D.Pearce. If he's getting a lot of the ball it normally means we're counter attacking very well. Our strong attacking game depends on him finding some form/ball. This is why RTB sticks with him because he knows how important he is.

If D.Pearce does find form and MJ gets his touch back, I think we'll get back to our early season attacking best, and dare I say it be hard to beat come finals!

Interesting that our peak form dropped around the same time as D.Pearce disposal efficiency dropped. Interesting.

 

[Belnakor]

Bulldogs are a young team and, we have to admit, a surprise packet. They're a bit of an abberation, there's one team like this nearly every year.

praying we get them at some point during the finals. Easy win.