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raffrox

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Well you included Sandilands and we are discussing list/team ages, so lets include him in the conversation. He may not be with us next season and we may trade in an experienced ruck. Seems my answer didn't fit for you, but there is no doubt that having Fyfe in the derby game as opposed to say having Schultz would make for a significant impact. I mean, what we are talking about is a young rebuilding team taking it up to the premiership side. But the Lions are doing well. Good on them. I think we'll finish around the same area of the ladder, and probably feel like they will be the higher team. Not overly a concern for me. They could also be serious finals contenders from next year, which is also where I expect us to be.
I didn't include Sandi even though it would have fitted my argument about our best 22 being similar in age and experience to the Lions but I didn't include him given he hasn't played this year. Whatever you reckon though hey.

One game without Fyfe proves nothing either way. Just like how one game with a high score proves nothing no matter how many threads you start about it.
 

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wayToGo_

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If people are going to be scared to compare us to Brisbane then I have concerns. I'm not even saying that they are better or worse ffs.
But it was someone on the negative side that compared us to Brisbane in the first place, not me. They referred to Brisbane as a young team like us. I was just pointing out that they aren't though - they are mid tier age atm. If we had all of Sandi, SHill, etc playing then we might be mid tier as well. But whilst we don't, we've been in the bottom 4-5 age and experience wise every week - that's just a fact, not an excuse.

I just want to see us competitive each and every week and not have massive 50+ point thrashings like last year. The fact we managed to be competitive against the reigning premiers (who fielded a better team than their GF team) is a good sign we are going to be more competitive this year imo. Happy for you or anyone to disagree but using your own words if those negative people are going to "compare us to Brisbane then I have concerns" ;)
 

theGav56

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But it was someone on the negative side that compared us to Brisbane in the first place, not me. They referred to Brisbane as a young team like us. I was just pointing out that they aren't though - they are mid tier age atm. If we had all of Sandi, SHill, etc playing then we might be mid tier as well. But whilst we don't, we've been in the bottom 4-5 age and experience wise every week - that's just a fact, not an excuse.

I just want to see us competitive each and every week and not have massive 50+ point thrashings like last year. The fact we managed to be competitive against the reigning premiers (who fielded a better team than their GF team) is a good sign we are going to be more competitive this year imo. Happy for you or anyone to disagree but using your own words if those negative people are going to "compare us to Brisbane then I have concerns" ;)
Yes all clearly argued and logical.

By the way, we have a couple of brick walls need knocking down if you want to bang your head against something different.
 
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I'm not sure why Freo is being compared to Brisbane Lions.
BL currently have a team with 8 players 22years and younger. Those young talented players are there because of Brisbane's sustained failures in the past providing them with top draft picks.
Remember BL got a priority pick in 2016.
BL's 8 young players include 5 first rounders, 2 Academy players, a 2nd round pick and a high 3rd round pick.
(Meanwhile, Freo have 6 players 22years and under, including 2 first round picks, 1 second round pick, 1 fourth round, 1 fifth round and a rookie)

Any difference in success between Brisbane Lions and Fremantle can be easily argued to be the quality of the lists.
In any case, Fremantle are currently still in their 3rd year of a rebuild after being minor premiers in 2015.
Brisbane Lions have been rebuilding since 2010/11. They went from 2011 to late 2017 fielding teams with 10 or less 50+ club game players.
But now during Chris Fagan's coaching, they have reduced their team changes.
On the weekend, their player with the least career games was a 24 year old backup ruckman with 20 AFL career games. Freo had 3 players aged 22years or younger with less than 20 career games.

Comparisons between the two is totally useless when debating the quality of each team's coaches because we are not comparing apples with apples.
 
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Richmond had 13 players who have played 50+ games for the club on the weekend.
(EDIT: youmewe kindly pointed out that Richmond had 10, not 13. I stand corrected.)
Freo had 5.
The average for all 18 teams for Round 4 was between 11 & 12.
Freo have had 5 in all four rounds so far in 2019, the lowest in every round.
 
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maka

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Brisbane 4 on the ladder
Gold Coast 6 on the ladder
and Freo on 7.

If anyone suggested those ladder positions at the end of round 4, before the season had started, I would have laughed at them.
All very temporary, Brisbane the only team credibly expected in the 8 at the end of the year - but maybe a fork shouldn't be stuck in either the Suns or the Dockers yet.

Everyone has expected Brisbane to improve, the Suns have won 3 games - well done to them, you can't take these 3 wins away from them and it will help them get some confidence and help to build the club - we were the joke of the competition when we started, they have my sympathy.
Did you see all three draws? I mean the only out of sorts one is our loss to Suns and the Brisbanes win over WC, Brisbane loss to Essendon and I hate to tell you this, but outside this Forum we still are the joke of the competition most clubs pencil us down for a Victory over us
 

Fat Nyfe

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Richmond had 13 players who have played 50+ games for the club on the weekend.
Freo had 5.
The average for all 18 teams for Round 4 was between 11 & 12.
Freo have had 5 in all four rounds so far in 2019, the lowest in every round.
You are being unreasonably selective to suit your argument.

6E1F8F7E-56DF-4A5E-8662-87AD28B9B033.jpeg

We had 14 50+ gamers on the weekend.
Guys like Hill, McCarthy, Hamling, Lobb and Hogan not have hit 50 for the club yet but they are all experienced AFL players now. I would give some leeway to Lobb and Hogan but it should not take a 50+ gamer another 50 games to gel with a new group. If you’re a high quality player, you should impact straight away (See Lynch, Neale). FWIW Hogan has been pretty unlucky not to have more goals and he’s working hard, he’ll break through soon.
 

maka

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You are being unreasonably selective to suit your argument.

View attachment 655576
We had 14 50+ gamers on the weekend.
Guys like Hill, McCarthy, Hamling, Lobb and Hogan not have hit 50 for the club yet but they are all experienced AFL players now. I would give some leeway to Lobb and Hogan but it should not take a 50+ gamer another 50 games to gel with a new group. If you’re a high quality player, you should impact straight away (See Lynch, Neale). FWIW Hogan has been pretty unlucky not to have more goals and he’s working hard, he’ll break through soon.
Anyone can bend goal posts to suit objectives
 

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Fat Nyfe

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Posting here rather than the Hogan thread because the point is more relevant to coaching -

1555372394921.png


Every year of his career so far, Hogan has been able to maintain a 2 goal/game average (1.9 in 2016). This is throughout periods of injuries, drops in form and personal issues. This is also under 2 different coaches (Roos, Goodwin) with differing game styles. There have been games where Jesse has struggled but he always bounces back because class is permanent. 4 consecutive years of averaging 2 goals a game or more is pretty clear evidence of class and consistency.

Jesse himself looks as fit and hungry as ever. He looks capable of scoring 45+ goals this year and beyond. IF he does struggle to impact the scoreboard, based on either lack of/poor forward 50 entries or being played too far up the ground, than we need serious reflection on our coaching methods. The proof is in the pudding.

This is not something to judge right now after 3 games, but after a full season. I'm just putting this out there now.
IMO, it would be a serious indictment on Lyon and forward coach David Hale if he drops below 2 gpg this year.
 
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Posting here rather than the Hogan thread because the point is more relevant to coaching -

View attachment 655648

Every year of his career so far, Hogan has been able to maintain a 2 goal/game average (1.9 in 2016). This is throughout periods of injuries, drops in form and personal issues. This is also under 2 different coaches (Roos, Goodwin) with differing game styles. There have been games where Jesse has struggled but he always bounces back because class is permanent. 4 consecutive years of averaging 2 goals a game or more is pretty clear evidence of class and consistency.

Jesse himself looks as fit and hungry as ever. He looks capable of scoring 45+ goals this year and beyond. IF he does struggle to impact the scoreboard, based on either lack of/poor forward 50 entries or being played too far up the ground, than we need serious reflection on our coaching methods. The proof is in the pudding.

This is not something to judge right now after 3 games, but after a full season. I'm just putting this out there now.
IMO, it would be a serious indictment on Lyon and forward coach David Hale if he drops below 2 gpg this year.
You are right ... it isn't something to judge right now.
How much different would that likely look if Hogan had have played in our high scoring Round 1 win?
And people accuse me of choosing selective data when I use the last 20 years as my sample.
 

Fat Nyfe

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You are right ... it isn't something to judge right now.
How much different would that likely look if Hogan had have played in our high scoring Round 1 win?
And people accuse me of choosing selective data when I use the last 20 years as my sample.
This is a snapshot of his entire career and I'm saying wait until this season pans out. That's not selective at all.
If we have more games like Round 1 throughout the season, Hogan will kick a lot of goals and we'll all be happy.
 
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If you have a life and forums don't interest you, why bother posting now? All you do is trash the club. It's hardly surprising you get called a troll.

Please indicate where I have praised failure.
You'rea good poster don't waist your time over it
 
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Fat Nyfe

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dunno what you thought those stats were proving.. Eagles had 7 more players with more than 150 games, they were a full year older and had played 40 more games on average.
Try reading the post I was replying to. It was about the number of 50+ gamers on our list. I don't think anyone is denying the Eagles are more experienced than us, as those stats prove.
 
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Add Saints in 5th and they are a handful of the teams the experts had fighting it out for the spoon.

At least the experts were right about Carlton.
Think 'the experts' will still probably be around the mark. Weird fixture this year. We're sitting 6th with wins over North and St.Kilda at home. GC have beaten us, WB and Carlton. Saints have beaten Essendon (while they were terrible), GC by a point and Hawthorn (who were missing a couple by the end). Brisbane are doing well but everyone kinda expected them to.
 

theGav56

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I'm not sure why Freo is being compared to Brisbane Lions.
BL currently have a team with 8 players 22years and younger. Those young talented players are there because of Brisbane's sustained failures in the past providing them with top draft picks.
Remember BL got a priority pick in 2016.
BL's 8 young players include 5 first rounders, 2 Academy players, a 2nd round pick and a high 3rd round pick.
(Meanwhile, Freo have 6 players 22years and under, including 2 first round picks, 1 second round pick, 1 fourth round, 1 fifth round and a rookie)

Any difference in success between Brisbane Lions and Fremantle can be easily argued to be the quality of the lists.
In any case, Fremantle are currently still in their 3rd year of a rebuild after being minor premiers in 2015.
Brisbane Lions have been rebuilding since 2010/11. They went from 2011 to late 2017 fielding teams with 10 or less 50+ club game players.
But now during Chris Fagan's coaching, they have reduced their team changes.
On the weekend, their player with the least career games was a 24 year old backup ruckman with 20 AFL career games. Freo had 3 players aged 22years or younger with less than 20 career games.

Comparisons between the two is totally useless when debating the quality of each team's coaches because we are not comparing apples with apples.
I enjoy your analysis, and generally agree with what you are saying. I think Brisbane is an okay club for us to benchmark against. Different paths and list profiles for sure. A key factor for our club is that there is some wholesale renovations happening in particular areas of the ground, which this year includes the forward line. If anyone expects a recovering Hogan to come in and immediately dominate the goal scoring then they are showing a lack of football perspective. But I have no doubt that he will be a weapon for us and structural game changer. Similarly I have no doubt Lobb will be a key component of how we structure our attack, but don't expect it to happen until we actually can predict who his forward line team mates will be, and even whether he will be lining up as a forward or a ruck.

We can quibble over Cox versus Taberner, and soon we may be adding Dixon to the debate. We can posture about if McCarthy is one too many talls, or if he is a medium. We can dream that Bennell may come good or we can look forward to Sturt getting a debut and the exciting NGA prospects. Happy days.

Is the chemistry between a marking tall forward and the small forwards important? You bet it is. But right now we don't know which of Scultz, Colyer, Ballantyne or Switkowski may be in the team, and we have no idea how much time forward Lobb will spend.

I remain very confident that the critical building blocks of an effective attack are in place, minus a solution to the small forward role.
 
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I'm not sure why Freo is being compared to Brisbane Lions.
BL currently have a team with 8 players 22years and younger. Those young talented players are there because of Brisbane's sustained failures in the past providing them with top draft picks.
Remember BL got a priority pick in 2016.
BL's 8 young players include 5 first rounders, 2 Academy players, a 2nd round pick and a high 3rd round pick.
(Meanwhile, Freo have 6 players 22years and under, including 2 first round picks, 1 second round pick, 1 fourth round, 1 fifth round and a rookie)

Any difference in success between Brisbane Lions and Fremantle can be easily argued to be the quality of the lists.
In any case, Fremantle are currently still in their 3rd year of a rebuild after being minor premiers in 2015.
Brisbane Lions have been rebuilding since 2010/11. They went from 2011 to late 2017 fielding teams with 10 or less 50+ club game players.
But now during Chris Fagan's coaching, they have reduced their team changes.
On the weekend, their player with the least career games was a 24 year old backup ruckman with 20 AFL career games. Freo had 3 players aged 22years or younger with less than 20 career games.

Comparisons between the two is totally useless when debating the quality of each team's coaches because we are not comparing apples with apples.
Who do you think is our best comparison in the league then? I'd worry greatly if you're suggesting we should be comparing ourselves to the 4th year of Brisbane/St.Kilda/Melbourne's rebuild because that's suggesting we're in for a 10 yr rebuild. I reckon the age range for the team on the weekend is on the younger side but definitely nearing contention. Our average games played looks a bit young but that's only because we're missing the 150+ game guys. The average age of the team would probably be pretty comparable to others like Brisbane/St.Kilda I'd have thought.

Obviously it's a little early to take anything meaningful from the comparison but come seasons end if Brisbane make finals and we're sitting in the bottom 6 you'd have to b a little disappointed.
 

tants

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Who do you think is our best comparison in the league then? I'd worry greatly if you're suggesting we should be comparing ourselves to the 4th year of Brisbane/St.Kilda/Melbourne's rebuild because that's suggesting we're in for a 10 yr rebuild. I reckon the age range for the team on the weekend is on the younger side but definitely nearing contention. Our average games played looks a bit young but that's only because we're missing the 150+ game guys. The average age of the team would probably be pretty comparable to others like Brisbane/St.Kilda I'd have thought.

Obviously it's a little early to take anything meaningful from the comparison but come seasons end if Brisbane make finals and we're sitting in the bottom 6 you'd have to b a little disappointed.
Not that you asked me but I think if we have 2 of Fyfe, Hill, Blakely, Sandi/Darcy, Ballas, Bennell then Brisbane are a fine comparison. Comparing the teams when we are missing the top end talent through injury and they are missing Marcus Adams (who is arguably the only best 22 missing) makes for a false comparison. Over the course of the season, I expect Brisbane to be ahead of us because I don't expect to get enough of that list on the park often enough.
 
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Not that you asked me but I think if we have 2 of Fyfe, Hill, Blakely, Sandi/Darcy, Ballas, Bennell then Brisbane are a fine comparison. Comparing the teams when we are missing the top end talent through injury and they are missing Marcus Adams (who is arguably the only best 22 missing) makes for a false comparison. Over the course of the season, I expect Brisbane to be ahead of us because I don't expect to get enough of that list on the park often enough.
Fair enough. I personally have basically written off Hill, Sandi, Ballas and Bennel (and Darcy was dropped because he doesn't have the fitness, he could have been in the team). We've had Fyfe for the first three so Blakely is the only real miss (although he's a big one imo). You can't keep injury prone players on your list (with little hope of them ever playing) and then use them as excuses for losses.

Assuming we get Fyfe and Blakely back soon and Brisbane revert to the mean injury wise I reckon it's still a very fair comparison. I don't think we necessarily need to equal them on the W-L column, just have to put up performances on a similar level.
 
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Fair enough. I personally have basically written off Hill, Sandi, Ballas and Bennel (and Darcy was dropped because he doesn't have the fitness, he could have been in the team). We've had Fyfe for the first three so Blakely is the only real miss (although he's a big one imo). You can't keep injury prone players on your list (with little hope of them ever playing) and then use them as excuses for losses.

Assuming we get Fyfe and Blakely back soon and Brisbane revert to the mean injury wise I reckon it's still a very fair comparison. I don't think we necessarily need to equal them on the W-L column, just have to put up performances on a similar level.
Well Bennell, Sandi and Ballas will be gone by years end, but I generally agree with you.

With Neale gone Blakely out is a huge hole though.

I'd prefer Ross was fast tracking Cerra in this time TBH, or bringing Nyhuis in and pushing Conca midfield
 
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