List Mgmt. Ross the Boss

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Funny to all of a sudden see all the Eastern States love for St Kilda at the moment. They don't have a lot of skilled name players and their game plan is very "efforts based" but funny how no one is calling them out for putting all players in the defensive 50 as being "too defensive" and criticising them like everyone seems to have always done with Ross.
I've stated it in here a couple of times already but on the matchday thread on this board when we played the Saints, at one point when St Kilda had all their players in our forward 50 a regular poster on here actually blamed this on Ross. This is what we are dealing with here.
 
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You can have all the game plans you like but when your forward inexplicably decides to kick it round the corner from 20m out there's not a lot you can do!

The game plan is Ross'. We lost two games we could have won but I don't believe it was all Ross' fault.

In the end I can't think of anyone who could replace him at the moment.

So, while I'm enjoying this season and quietly optimistic...until the wheels fall off ....Im with Ross. *




*Belief in Ross'ability does not rule out temper tantrums, rants, hissy fits or other such behaviour on the Big Footy board upon Fremantle Fc's next dismal loss.
 
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Bingo on the footy brain remark
My two cents on each of these.

- He's turned a corner in this regard. But early in his tenure with us and as late as 2017 he was risk averse and reluctant to play inexperience. (examples - Neale sub in 2013 GF, lack of exposure to youth in 2015, waiting until a few rounds into 2017 to fully commit to younger players and turning to Dawson, D. Pearce etc instead.)

- This year he finally has the tools for a great forward line at his disposal so there's no excuses. It's been a mixed start early but good signs.

- Definitely still debatable. I still think we need to do our due diligence on finding quality assistant coaching talent.

- The gameplan in the past has often meant hard work for little reward, which seems like it can tire players out within games or within seasons. For many, many games it was ugly to watch. Skills have often been poor, and an afterthought to effort. What's the difference this year, is there a difference? I'm still not sure yet. Our ball skills tend to improve when we're winning the clearances and contested ball, probably because we're not as fatigued from chasing our tails. We also had targets to kick to vs. GWS which helps, and really good spread from contests giving us options. However, none of those things were true in the GC game so it's still a mixed bag. Inexperience is a factor to some degree. On player buy in, that has always been a strong suit for Ross.

- 'Too old' is a crap argument. There have been plenty of good older coaches throughout the years, and plenty of bad young ones. If you have a good footy brain and can keep up to date with the modern game, age should be irrelevant.

- I get the feeling he's mellowed a little with the media over the past couple of years. Some of them hate him, some absolutely love him. There's not a lot of in-between, a bit like this board at times

It's been a good start for Ross, bit of a mixed bag but competitive in every game so far right to the end is a huge plus. Our best footy is awesome, so there's genuine hope that if he can harness that consistently we won't just be a good side, we'll be a top side. Let's not talk extensions right now though.
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Spot on. We regularly put an impatient timeline on where we believe clubs should start to "come good" and throw unnecessary pressure on the team imo
Just don't see it like this at all. Having an experienced coach to take a club through a rebuild is the ideal scenario, and that needs an appropriate time-frame.
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BlueE

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Janice the orange cutter upperer? The S&C staff? Or do you think St Bell is responsible for all things good and Ross all things bad?

What we are seeing from Ross, is the difference that a good set - and the right set - of tools make, a good set of KPF's and some crumbers at their feet (amongst other things) for example, which were inadequate in years gone by. The guy knows head coaching, he's done it for a while, does a study trip most off seasons for further education, has taken multiple clubs to the big dance at the end of the year. But give a master builder only a screwdriver set and self-tapping screws, he isn't going to achieve as much in a day as a master builder with a screwdriver, self-tapping screws plus a drill and drill bits.
Me thinks we may not be too different if you think a contract extension shouldn't be on the table before mid next year.

While I agree the right tools make a difference but we've had most of those forward tools Tabs, Cox, McCarthy, Darcy, and crumbers Matera and Sonny last year but playing out of position and injuries took a toll.

As far as whom I think responsible for "something different happened" is Bell who I believe has been the push behind skills training after RTB has repeatedly publicly rated skills an afterthought to effort and should be the players responsibility and Lord Leigh of Mon -tag- nah, the Lord Baelish who could be intelligence behind the throne and Kingmaker this year.
 

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Me thinks we may not be too different if you think a contract extension shouldn't be on the table before mid next year.

While I agree the right tools make a difference but we've had most of those forward tools Tabs, Cox, McCarthy, Darcy, and crumbers Matera and Sonny last year but playing out of position and injuries took a toll.

As far as whom I think responsible for "something different happened" is Bell who I believe has been the push behind skills training after RTB has repeatedly publicly rated skills an afterthought to effort and should be the players responsibility and Lord Leigh of Mon -tag- nah, the Lord Baelish who could be intelligence behind the throne and Kingmaker this year.
Spot on about Bell making a difference I think. And as he should too, after all, he is Ross's BOSS!!! That's a job position I wouldn't be putting in an application for, but Bell is having a significant impact. But isn't the difference-maker whoever moved Bondie on and appointed Bell?

Another year/pre-season into Cox, McCarty and Darcy (and any other young players) is huge for them. But I think the key is the super-structure that has been placed around them over the off-season, especially Lobb and Hogan.

At what stage do we no longer say that Walters is being played out of position and more see him as a midfielder who can go forward?
 

theGav56

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Walters is having his best ever season playing in the middle and we are doing well.

The primary force behind that is Michael Walters' work ethic. That's where you'll see most of our growth come from as well.
He is electric. Gets bashed around in there a bit too, but keeps going. One of those players who may kick as many goals playing midfield as he does forward too. I am loving the club's multi-positional player strategy in general, but Walters is a bit of a poster boy for it.
 

salim malik

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Me thinks we may not be too different if you think a contract extension shouldn't be on the table before mid next year.

While I agree the right tools make a difference but we've had most of those forward tools Tabs, Cox, McCarthy, Darcy, and crumbers Matera and Sonny last year but playing out of position and injuries took a toll.

As far as whom I think responsible for "something different happened" is Bell who I believe has been the push behind skills training after RTB has repeatedly publicly rated skills an afterthought to effort and should be the players responsibility and Lord Leigh of Mon -tag- nah, the Lord Baelish who could be intelligence behind the throne and Kingmaker this year.

This played out of position last season is rubbish. Matera and Tabs both played up the ground and in the forward half against GWS just like they did last season. Matera and Tabs are both now fit and had a full pre season under their belt which is the reason they are playing better.
Walters played mid and forward last season , no change there. Hogan and Lobbs arrival, another pre season plus experience under the youngsters is another reason for the improvement. The rebuild is taking effect ,embrace it . It's a pretty good feeling.
 

theGav56

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This played out of position last season is rubbish. Matera and Tabs both played up the ground and in the forward half against GWS just like they did last season. Matera and Tabs are both now fit and had a full pre season under their belt which is the reason they are playing better.
Walters played mid and forward last season , no change there. Hogan and Lobbs arrival, another pre season plus experience under the youngsters is another reason for the improvement. The rebuild is taking effect ,embrace it . It's a pretty good feeling.
I think what posters are seeing as being played "out of position" is actually a central part of the emerging game plan. The club has advertised that they are looking for multi-positional players, and that's what we are seeing.

Why was BHilly tagged on the weekend?

Well he is damaging so he should be considered for a tag, but Fyfe is more damaging. And Fyfe has (occasionally) had his impact reduced by taggers before, plus de Boer is a pretty good physical match up. I think part of the reason why BHilly got it is because he lacks the other position that he can turn to when tagged. Walters is a more similar player to BHill, but if he is getting hurt by a tag he will go and ply his trade in the forward line. For the opposition that isn't a win, but they did get a win against BHill on the weekend.
 
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That AFL key forwards stay inside the forward fifty is a myth. Some might stay in the forward half but most will roam all the way to defensive fifty because their marking power secures ground and turns a 40m kick out of congestion into 100m of ball movement up the ground.

Having small forwards with the tank to roam to the back pocket and the skills to both create goals out of nothing and hit up team mates when up the ground is vital.
 

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BlueE

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Spot on about Bell making a difference I think. And as he should too, after all, he is Ross's BOSS!!! That's a job position I wouldn't be putting in an application for, but Bell is having a significant impact. But isn't the difference-maker whoever moved Bondie on and appointed Bell?

Another year/pre-season into Cox, McCarty and Darcy (and any other young players) is huge for them. But I think the key is the super-structure that has been placed around them over the off-season, especially Lobb and Hogan.

At what stage do we no longer say that Walters is being played out of position and more see him as a midfielder who can go forward?
Didn't the board with Bell on it move Bond on? Also in giving Lloyd the push but I'm not convinced the L plater who replaced him is going to be an improvement. However You'd think it left room in the salaries for change if we needed to. Rosich is out of contact at the end of this year I think and he has attached himself very closely to Ross, so he would be invested that Ross does well.

The super structures for me is improving our gameplan and assistants. An indication that Ross didn't think we needed to improve assistant coaches when no one was removed last year and I think contracts renewed. Taylor may have information if any are out of contract this year and the date we need to tell them if we are going to re-employ for next year. I think it's August 1st.

There are many good assistants (and players like Sam Mitchell who made good assistants) with the models of Richmond, Collingwood and this year in St Kilda of success when appointing these to support the coach.

The problem is when these assistants can win head coaching positions and leave if there is no position at the club they are employed at. However this is the directions where I believe Freo needs to go next year to keep developing and improve.
 
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This played out of position last season is rubbish. Matera and Tabs both played up the ground and in the forward half against GWS just like they did last season. Matera and Tabs are both now fit and had a full pre season under their belt which is the reason they are playing better.
Walters played mid and forward last season , no change there. Hogan and Lobbs arrival, another pre season plus experience under the youngsters is another reason for the improvement. The rebuild is taking effect ,embrace it . It's a pretty good feeling.
Agree with this. The whole narrative that says Ross was stubbornly clinging to an old way then Prince Belly came in and forced him to see the light is just nonsense. This rebuild has been taking place over a number of years now (the exact number is debatable) and the benefits are starting to show. We did not suddenly gain skills from one week of skills training, and more than we lost our skills between the North Melbourne game and the Suns game.

Young sides are inconsistent, and bringing new players into a team causes instability and lack of cohesion at times. This will improve dramatically if we can keep a relatively stable team on the park, keeping personnel changes to a minimum to cover injuries, allow for player management and allow exposure for our depth players. Players were played out of position at times last year due to injuries to key players - Taberner went down early, both Hills were injured at times, Fyfe missed footy, Walters was playing injured all season. The key this year is to keep the majority of our best 22 on the park and keep the team as stable as possible, then we will be a legitimate finals chance.

Another year's development into the kids, along with reinforcement of the game plan and I am very excited about next year and the years following that.

I think there are some posters who are so blinded by their hatred of Ross Lyon that to accept he has been doing exactly what he said he would do is inconceivable. There is a long way to go and a couple of good wins is not the end game, but I am still happy to hold off my judgement until the middle of this season.
 

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Didn't the board with Bell on it move Bond on? Also in giving Lloyd the push but I'm not convinced the L plater who replaced him is going to be an improvement. However You'd think it left room in the salaries for change if we needed to. Rosich is out of contact at the end of this year I think and he has attached himself very closely to Ross, so he would be invested that Ross does well.

The super structures for me is improving our gameplan and assistants. An indication that Ross didn't think we needed to improve assistant coaches when no one was removed last year and I think contracts renewed. Taylor may have information if any are out of contract this year and the date we need to tell them if we are going to re-employ for next year. I think it's August 1st.

There are many good assistants (and players like Sam Mitchell who made good assistants) with the models of Richmond, Collingwood and this year in St Kilda of success when appointing these to support the coach.

The problem is when these assistants can win head coaching positions and leave if there is no position at the club they are employed at. However this is the directions where I believe Freo needs to go next year to keep developing and improve.
For sure Bell needs to be looking at the assistants, and discussing that with Lyon. He'd be looking at those doing the job now and making a list, and checking it twice, and thinking about what he may be able to get Ross for Christmas. I'm not sure he would be unhappy, although the skills area and S&C would be reviewed.
 
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Didn't the board with Bell on it move Bond on? Also in giving Lloyd the push but I'm not convinced the L plater who replaced him is going to be an improvement. However You'd think it left room in the salaries for change if we needed to. Rosich is out of contact at the end of this year I think and he has attached himself very closely to Ross, so he would be invested that Ross does well.

The super structures for me is improving our gameplan and assistants. An indication that Ross didn't think we needed to improve assistant coaches when no one was removed last year and I think contracts renewed. Taylor may have information if any are out of contract this year and the date we need to tell them if we are going to re-employ for next year. I think it's August 1st.

There are many good assistants (and players like Sam Mitchell who made good assistants) with the models of Richmond, Collingwood and this year in St Kilda of success when appointing these to support the coach.

The problem is when these assistants can win head coaching positions and leave if there is no position at the club they are employed at. However this is the directions where I believe Freo needs to go next year to keep developing and improve.
Don't want to labour the point BlueE, but you constantly do this - you ASSUME that the board moved Bond on (because you agreed with that decision) but you ASSUME that Lyon made the decision that we didn't need to improve our assistants (because you disagreed with that one).

Reality is, you have no idea who made either of those decisions, you just ascribe them in a way that supports your dislike of Lyon.
 

theGav56

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I think there are some posters who are so blinded by their hatred of Ross Lyon that to accept he has been doing exactly what he said he would do is inconceivable.
No doubt about this. Coupled with that they don't like the game plan style we were playing, especially when we are losing.
 
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No doubt about this. Coupled with that they don't like the game plan style we were playing, especially when we are losing.
Yep, and I was very frustrated watching the Suns, Gold Coast and Eagles games too. But even in those games there were signs that we were trying to play fast, flowing football, we just weren't allowed to by our opposition and our skills / decision making under pressure. These will improve as they get used to each other and the game plan.

Hopefully we see more of the good and less of the bad, but there WILL be other bad games and it won't be because Lyon has decided to change back to the "old" way! The only way of shutting up the Freo and Lyon bashing is by putting consistent results on the board, which is fair enough too.
 

BlueE

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Don't want to labour the point BlueE, but you constantly do this - you ASSUME that the board moved Bond on (because you agreed with that decision) but you ASSUME that Lyon made the decision that we didn't need to improve our assistants (because you disagreed with that one).

Reality is, you have no idea who made either of those decisions, you just ascribe them in a way that supports your dislike of Lyon.
Actually I was answering Gav's question and have never posted on this before or had any strong ASSUMPTIONS about it if you look at my posting on this. If I was wrong and the board didn't move Bond on maybe you or Gav could inform me who did?

Also if my ASSUMPTION that the boss of the assistants didn't want any change please inform me? The clubs I posted about who did add excellent assistants and have seen improvement I do ASSUME that the main push for employing them came from the clubs not the coach but that's a ASSUMPTION of course.

Only thing I dislike is being a foundation member for Freo and not having a premiership for 25 years. (Also posters that have to use capitals and bolding to get their point across rather than their argument)
 
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