List Mgmt. Ross the Boss

Scham

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From the Autopsy thread. This is worth a discussion.

Our best squad of say 25-28 at the moment is pretty well balanced in terms of youth, prime (23-27) and senior players. In fact we don't even have all that much youth in the team right now compared to clubs like Geelong (9 players under 50 games last week, at least 4 debutants for the season, 7-1 W/L), Richmond (9 players under 50 games, 4? debutants, 5-3), Brisbane and Port.

Are we still rebuilding? Because it doesn't look like it. In that case, is Ross underperforming with the list at his disposal? Are we judging ourselves against expectations that are too low because we are coming off the back of a few lean years? Should this list realistically be challenging for Top 4 and a flag?
Not sure about top 4 but our list is definitely good enough to be playing and even winning finals. No doubt about that.
 

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Freomaniac

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Won’t make a call on “Sack Ross” until the season is over. I’m using the Development of Bradshaw and Cerra as my yard stick, undecided.


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I am also in that part of the dockers section on letting Ross See out this season. Again, Imagine if he was out of contract this year. He would be fighting for his career.
Starting to wonder where we would be if we had Clarkson at the helm. Honeslty think we would be playing finals fighting to play in the Granny, love the way that man does things.
I wont deny Clarkson is a good coach.

Under Lyon, we are where I hoped we would be: Around a finals spot.

Had we had Alan Richardson or Mark Neeld, we would be bottom 4
 
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no point sacking him mid season might as well wait till seasons end ....but for me he is gone an assistant coach at best in todays game
I'm going to post this here because I dont want to de-rail the Hogan thread.

I really find you to be the worst kind of supporter.

From looking at your history, posting frequently with plenty of criticism up until April 19. Then crickets for the next two weeks apart from one random post on Brandon Matera that found some weird way to still take a potshot at Lyon.

Then low and behold, you're back with vengeance after the Adelaide game

Be honest, were you happy or annoyed when we were 4 and 2?
 

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I'm going to post this here because I dont want to de-rail the Hogan thread.

I really find you to be the worst kind of supporter.

From looking at your history, posting frequently with plenty of criticism up until April 19. Then crickets for the next two weeks apart from one random post on Brandon Matera that found some weird way to still take a potshot at Lyon.

Then low and behold, you're back with vengeance after the Adelaide game

Be honest, were you happy or annoyed when we were 4 and 2?
ROSS LYON is not the man you are looking for......i will leave it at that
 

Wigarus

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I'm going to post this here because I dont want to de-rail the Hogan thread.

I really find you to be the worst kind of supporter.

From looking at your history, posting frequently with plenty of criticism up until April 19. Then crickets for the next two weeks apart from one random post on Brandon Matera that found some weird way to still take a potshot at Lyon.

Then low and behold, you're back with vengeance after the Adelaide game

Be honest, were you happy or annoyed when we were 4 and 2?

What about some of the other patterns we can see with his posts?

He never uses punctuation.

He usually has spelling errors.

His posts are never longer than a sentence or two. (His longest post is only 75 words.)



What gets me is that there's so much arguing in this thread between people that like to write out a logical, readable argument that uses stats or sources to try and back up there position. Writing paragraphs arguing with people that don't read what you've written, just counter your argument by going ross sucks or something similar.

Maybe he isn't deliberately being a troll, but is arguing with an idiot a better alternative?
 
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What about some of the other patterns we can see with his posts?

He never uses punctuation.

He usually has spelling errors.

His posts are never longer than a sentence or two. (His longest post is only 75 words.)



What gets me is that there's so much arguing in this thread between people that like to write out a logical, readable argument that uses stats or sources to try and back up there position. Writing paragraphs arguing with people that don't read what you've written, just counter your argument by going ross sucks or something similar.

Maybe he isn't deliberately being a troll, but is arguing with an idiot a better alternative?
Yeah its pretty frustrating but i can deal with the shitty grammar, and even shitty arguments (to some degree). What I cant stand is "supporters" who actually get enjoyment out of watching us lose and hate us winning because it invalidates their opinions, i would argue this dude is firmly in that category. If he's actually a Freo supporter at all. And I'm not here defending Lyon from every angle or coming up with excuses.

I think we have made some improvement so far this year but that can quickly go downhill, and if, by the end of the year, we dont show obvious signs of being a finals side next year I think Ross should go since I want to win a flag BUT if you take enjoyment out of games like GWS, why even bother following a football team
 

armpit

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Maybe he isn't deliberately being a troll, but is arguing with an idiot a better alternative?
No. It is known. You know what they say, if you argue with an idiot...

Who's the idiot though? We're trying to figure out why, when we thought we had finally put a team togethe, they can look good or they can look they did yesterday. There's all sides to the story. These are difficult times. If we win next week things change.
 

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Midnite65

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Yeah its pretty frustrating but i can deal with the shitty grammar, and even shitty arguments (to some degree). What I cant stand is "supporters" who actually get enjoyment out of watching us lose and hate us winning because it invalidates their opinions, i would argue this dude is firmly in that category. If he's actually a Freo supporter at all. And I'm not here defending Lyon from every angle or coming up with excuses.

I think we have made some improvement so far this year but that can quickly go downhill, and if, by the end of the year, we dont show obvious signs of being a finals side next year I think Ross should go since I want to win a flag BUT if you take enjoyment out of games like GWS, why even bother following a football team
I also get very frustated when they the critics of Ross say we haven't changed our style, we used to play a chip the ball around, kick the ball around backwards and sideways until it was turned over, we seem to be playing a lot faster with longer kicks and far less backwards to try and get it to the tall forwards, its just the skill level of kicks is still a long way behind. Also Hardwick was the one that wanted to start with the loose person behind the ball in the backline after the 6:6:6 of the bounce.
 

maka

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I think we have made some improvement so far this year but that can quickly go downhill, and if, by the end of the year, we dont show obvious signs of being a finals side next year I think Ross should go since I want to win a flag BUT if you take enjoyment out of games like GWS, why even bother following a football team
Have we improved though? I mean we have a fully fit young team, we acquired Hogan, Tabs is one of the best markers in the game, Fyfe and Mundy are back to their best. Let’s be honest we had a dream run, dream, dream run and blew it, Suns will finish bottom 4, should have put them to the sword, North are a basket case, Saints are a bottom 4 clubs, Eagles are poor we had them in the right place, GWS was a perfect platform to launch from, Bulldogs a bottom 6 club, Tigers had half their team out and put us to the sword, as the season unfolds more we might get a clear picture but for now our game plan is too easy to get around, our skills are a pathetic as is our forward entry, many of these guys are into their second and third seasons so really should be better, I mean they’re no Tim Kelly but cmon, it’s all skills based and I don’t see us getting better in that department
 
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Have we improved though? I mean we have a fully fit young team, we acquired Hogan, Tabs is one of the best markers in the game, Fyfe and Mundy are back to their best. Let’s be honest we had a dream run, dream, dream run and blew it, Suns will finish bottom 4, should have put them to the sword, North are a basket case, Saints are a bottom 4 clubs, Eagles are poor we had them in the right place, GWS was a perfect platform to launch from, Bulldogs a bottom 6 club, Tigers had half their team out and put us to the sword, as the season unfolds more we might get a clear picture but for now our game plan is too easy to get around, our skills are a pathetic as is our forward entry, many of these guys are into their second and third seasons so really should be better, I mean they’re no Tim Kelly but cmon, it’s all skills based and I don’t see us getting better in that department
Its such an even comp though.

You have to be on or you lose.

Tigers had the same side the week before and didnt turn up, lost to the Dogs. Eagles beat GWS, Roo's beat Adelaide.

I think so far this year, our best is better than last year and our worse is not as ****, the results and the eye test would indicate that. To brush it off purely as a personnel thing inst fair. The point is we've improved. Improving from 6 doesnt win flags though, improving from top 8 does. I reserve full judgement until further in the year since the season is long and full of terrors. Anything can and does happen every week

I agree our skills are not up to scratch but they were against GWS and North. I think they drop off DRAMATICALLY under pressure, I feel its worse than the other teams. That has to be fixed to go anywhere.
 

maka

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Its such an even comp though.

You have to be on or you lose.

Tigers had the same side the week before and didnt turn up, lost to the Dogs. Eagles beat GWS, Roo's beat Adelaide.

I think so far this year, our best is better than last year and our worse is not as ****, the results and the eye test would indicate that. To brush it off purely as a personnel thing inst fair. The point is we've improved. Improving from 6 doesnt win flags though, improving from top 8 does. I reserve full judgement until further in the year since the season is long and full of terrors. Anything can and does happen every week

I agree our skills are not up to scratch but they were against GWS and North. I think they drop off DRAMATICALLY under pressure, I feel its worse than the other teams. That has to be fixed to go anywhere.
Skills are taught which is why most people think Ross needs to go, you’re turning players like Brad Hill and Hogan backwards, albeit Hawks were an elite unit, kind of like Brisbane were when Des Headland got found out here, but skills are taught from Coaches and I just don’t see them improving over many years, we have a great game plan, albeit only one game plan, it’s so tough to gauge, maybe it is purely assistant based and that’s where it really stems from, I mean with Kirk and Suma we were elite
 
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Skills are taught which is why most people think Ross needs to go, you’re turning players like Brad Hill and Hogan backwards, albeit Hawks were an elite unit, kind of like Brisbane were when Des Headland got found out here, but skills are taught from Coaches and I just don’t see them improving over many years, we have a great game plan, albeit only one game plan, it’s so tough to gauge, maybe it is purely assistant based and that’s where it really stems from, I mean with Kirk and Suma we were elite
I disagree that Hill has gone backwards. He has been a better player for us than Hawthorn. Hogan has had 7 games coming off a serious foot injury. Will wait to see on that one.

I agree with you, skills are one of our weak points and historically one of Lyons, he has shown he can get teams to Grand Finals regardless.

You've got me defending him now, which was not what I was trying to do, I think the jury is out.

I'll ask you this, did you think things were looking good two weeks ago?
 

maka

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I disagree that Hill has gone backwards. He has been a better player for us than Hawthorn. Hogan has had 7 games coming off a serious foot injury. Will wait to see on that one.

I agree with you, skills are one of our weak points and historically one of Lyons, he has shown he can get teams to Grand Finals regardless.

You've got me defending him now, which was not what I was trying to do, I think the jury is out.

I'll ask you this, did you think things were looking good two weeks ago?
Yeah I was back on board for sure, was fun and exciting again but just the last three weeks have been sombre and painful of old to watch, if he gets us 12+ wins give him two more years with new assistants, would love to see jlo or pav up their as forward assistants
 
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Ross' wild ride continues. Not sure if I want to get off yet.

Yesterday was a chance we really should have taken given their injuries both pre- and intra-game. I do feel we tried to be a bit too clever for our own good selection wise. Some of the great things we saw in our good wins have dissipated.

The next two weeks will be interesting. Essendon are up and down - eminently beatable. Brisbane are probably ahead of us but at home we should still be favourites. If we can't win at least one of these games, preferably both, then I struggle to see how we are going to improve on the 8 wins of the last 2 years. The draw ahead is not favourable in that respect. If we don't then Ross is gone for me.
 

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Yeah its pretty frustrating but i can deal with the shitty grammar, and even shitty arguments (to some degree). What I cant stand is "supporters" who actually get enjoyment out of watching us lose and hate us winning because it invalidates their opinions, i would argue this dude is firmly in that category. If he's actually a Freo supporter at all. And I'm not here defending Lyon from every angle or coming up with excuses.

I think we have made some improvement so far this year but that can quickly go downhill, and if, by the end of the year, we dont show obvious signs of being a finals side next year I think Ross should go since I want to win a flag BUT if you take enjoyment out of games like GWS, why even bother following a football team
let me guess i should go support eagles ......supporters like you are the worst keep drinking the koolaid bud
 
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let me guess i should go support eagles ......supporters like you are the worst keep drinking the koolaid bud
I dont think comprehension is your strong point. I clearly said why bother following any team, you dont enjoy sport, you enjoy validating your opinion.

I have also clearly said several times that I'm not calling for Ross to be fired, nor do I think everything is peachy. I think we need to see more improvement by the end of the year and we have seen some improvement but not enough so far.

But its easier to just say "koolaid" and not contribute anything meaningful so you do you.
 
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Yeah I was back on board for sure, was fun and exciting again but just the last three weeks have been sombre and painful of old to watch, if he gets us 12+ wins give him two more years with new assistants, would love to see jlo or pav up their as forward assistants
See, short of making top 4 (which wont happen), I'm not giving him an extension this year. 12 wins would be a terrific result but not extension worthy, not when Melbourne and Roo's have shown how quickly it can go so wrong.

I'd want more proof that this year wouldnt have been a fluke.

I wouldnt be extending until midway through next year (no other club would go near him, so we arent having him poached) and less than 10 wins this year I'd be organising catch-ups with Longmuir, Ratten, Caracella etc. Its a pity Mitchell is locked into the next Hawks job.
 
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