The Collingwood and Port games has shut me up.
Was pro Ross, then anti Ross and now neutral Ross.
List Mgmt. Ross Lyon - Sacked
- Thread starter jedi mind tricks
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Was pro Ross, then anti Ross and now neutral Ross.
Pro Lyon status was from the beginning of his coaching career at Freo until the Tigers game.
We didn't want to win that game Fred..
It occurred to me but I can’t workout why.
- Apr 25, 2011
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When you have bread and vegemite you can make toast, when you have eggs you can make an egg dish, when you have them all you do what you want, but you don't make an egg dish when all you have is bread and vegemite. I'm sure Ross would have loved more run and uncontested football in our 2012-2015 period but we did not have the speed and talent for it, there weren't multiple options for how we could go about winning - we only had one option (highly defensive, high pressure and accountable). His list at Saint Kilda dictated the teams strengths and weaknesses, just as our current list has it's strengths and weaknesses.
Those strengths and weaknesses determine if you focus on winning the game on the inside or the outside, if you can score via turnover, dominate the midfield, have clean entry forward, have outside run, if you can tie up the dangerous forwards and can afford to have someone play loose in defence, how well you put pressure on, if you tag etc. Hell, from last game to this game, the change from Lobb to Darcy, we played the inside game differently - so the play by multiple people affected and not just that you have a different jumper on the field.
Ross has had a few visits to various clubs in different sports around the world to study and evolve. Implementing a few different ideas isn't tough change, if you are studying you are trying to improve. There would be few tough changes he has made, from his own admission delegation would be one of them - and that was years ago, "tough change" doesn't account for our sudden success. What does account for our success at the moment is not the head coach, but the list that he has at his disposal - he would have been in the finals over the last few years if he had a list that could do it (rebuilding teams struggle), we weren't in the doldrums because of the coach.
That's the bit that has had me so flummoxed in this thread and other threads, our fortunes have been dictated by list management rather than coaching, it was cupboards empty of talent that was the reason for rebuilding - the club (and Ross along with it) didn't rebuild for the fun of it. We're at the tail end of that rebuild, it's no surprise that we are are playing better than we were in the middle of it, nor is it a surprise that how we play has changed given that we have an almost totally different list with different strengths and weaknesses (and a better list in general, with a better distribution of talent across the field, plus more raw talent in general and good depth).
I’m liking the new Ross. Never thought he’d change but he has, so all credit to him for that. The whole footy dept seems more in sync and happier, or is that just the result of winning? Either way, the improvements over the crap we’ve dished up over the last few years is extremely welcome by all, supporters, players and staff by the looks of things. We’re a happy team at Freo...
I like the club when they are winning.
I also like them when they are putting the strategy in place to create the opportunity for them to win. That is the key part of becoming a successful club. Winning is the end result.
I also like them when they are putting the strategy in place to create the opportunity for them to win. That is the key part of becoming a successful club. Winning is the end result.
You got vision of any of this? I was at the GC game and I don't remember that at all. Not saying it didn't happen, I genuinely don't remember. I don't remember anywhere near enough about the Pies game to talk about it specifically.
We are not the only team to have put a man behind the ball. Most still do at some points during a game. I always feel like "get rid of the man behind the ball" criticism is lazy, because there are times it makes sense and others when it doesn't. I don't understand how a casual fan without access to comprehensive vision and enough time could possibly be sure of something like this.
To clarify, there are times when it is blindingly obvious that it needs to be changed but a lot of the time, issues with scoring are as simple as what Gav says below.
I agree with this.
- Jul 20, 2014
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Excellent post. Except what happens if you like toast and Vegemite with eggs on top? I knew someone once that did. I don't think they were a supercoach.
Apart from that I agree with most of it
- Jul 2, 2013
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One could argue that it was the coach and that supposed 8 player defence that kept Freo in that game.
Gold Coast dominated Freo in all areas of that game ... apart from their goal conversion. It is reasonable to say that a stacked defence contributed to Gold Coasts 7.19 score (3.11 after half time) from 21 more inside 50's than Freo had.
It could also be argued that for Freo to still be in that game up until the final siren was quite an amazing piece of coaching.
Don't get me wrong, I don't believe yours or my subjective opinions on what happened that day is totally accurate, but I do recall that by the end of that game, I was convinced that Gold Coast deserved to win it. They were the better team on the day ... I'm just not sure how the coach and his defensive structures can be absolutely blamed for that.
Or maybe belly wasn’t in the box to tell ross not to go defensive!?.
tacopavlich
Premiership Player
Also as much as we like to attribute 95% of failure to the coach, we also can't do that for success either. Our players have a desire to win that's been stronger than our opponents in the last few games which is evident in our 4th quarter performances, and our leaders have stood up when it matters for the majority of the season. Darcy has shown incredible work ethic to get his fitness up to this point and dominating Lycett in the last contributed enormously.
Building on field relationships, playing for and trusting each other is not something that can just be achieved by coaching. All Lyon can do is make strategies on a white board and develop our structures but he's not a psychologist who can be accounted for players choking, make mistakes, or panicking under pressure. Our group seem to be developing a strong culture and it's great to watch.
Building on field relationships, playing for and trusting each other is not something that can just be achieved by coaching. All Lyon can do is make strategies on a white board and develop our structures but he's not a psychologist who can be accounted for players choking, make mistakes, or panicking under pressure. Our group seem to be developing a strong culture and it's great to watch.
I give Conca a lot of credit for the improvements this year
I’ve been saying I don’t think Ross can take us to a flag, and truly upset some snowflakes on the way. Something has changed, don’t know what, but we’ve done a total about face. I’m leaning more towards a good cohesion within the playing group. I’ve played enough football to know how important that is. Hawthorn had it, as did Richmond, Geelong have it now, We’re building it. As for Ross, if he’s been instructed to not be so defensive, then that should be a good thing and I like all of you, am enjoying the ride.
Yes, cuddles has been very good.
What?
Ross Lyon should be sacked because we suck. We no longer suck, not because of Ross Lyon but despite him.
Wow.
I think you’ve taken me right out of context.
I think his point is that you could definitely interpret your post as:
We have been poor and that is on Ross
We are now good because of good team cohesion
It is not obvious from your post how much of this you attribute to Ross, if any.
I think I have taken the sentiment from that post fairly clearly.
That’s something none of us know. I don’t know if that’s the case. You’d need to be in the inner sanctum to know that for sure.
Oh don’t worry there still a few who are performing all sorts of Olympic caliber mental gymnastics to justify their position on the teams improved performances without daring to apportion any of it to ross, as to even reinforce their orginal views about him.
The other good one I’ve read is that belly has “forced “ ross to change and does so but on a game to game basis.-
depending if we win or lose of course.
I have no problem with that, I think that is a reasonable position.
My question would be, how does that tie in with this statement?
"I’ve been saying I don’t think Ross can take us to a flag"
We are willing to admit we have no idea what is going on internally, but you feel you have enough information to judge something that definitively in spite of the fact he has literally drawn a GF before.
An alternative narrative might be that we have been on a path to rebuilding a list pretty much from scratch and there were always going to be tough times along the journey. Which is why Lyon was given a lengthy extension at the beginning of that process.
I'm glad the club had more patience and vision than most supporters (including myself at times) and has stuck with the plan that was put in place.
This season has had a real 2012 vibe about it and although there were a couple of games that really disappointed me, I think we have shown that our best football stands up to any team now - even with some critical players missing. Exciting times ahead, if not this year then definitely over the next three to five years. I think Dave Mundy was our only senior citizen yesterday wasn't he?
I'm glad the club had more patience and vision than most supporters (including myself at times) and has stuck with the plan that was put in place.
This season has had a real 2012 vibe about it and although there were a couple of games that really disappointed me, I think we have shown that our best football stands up to any team now - even with some critical players missing. Exciting times ahead, if not this year then definitely over the next three to five years. I think Dave Mundy was our only senior citizen yesterday wasn't he?
I think the pitchforks can be placed back in the shed comfortably now.
We've beaten GWS & The Pies away, they are currently 2nd and 3rd.
The only other team to match that would be Geelong, and GWS beat them at the Cattery.
Ross is not perfect, but he's done a great job to get us here.
The agenda's people have don't concern me, Results are the only litmus test
We've beaten GWS & The Pies away, they are currently 2nd and 3rd.
The only other team to match that would be Geelong, and GWS beat them at the Cattery.
Ross is not perfect, but he's done a great job to get us here.
The agenda's people have don't concern me, Results are the only litmus test
