List Mgmt. Ross Lyon - Sacked

Is Ross still the man for the job?

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Joao said:
Menegola has clearly improved out of sight and thats fine, all teams have those stories.
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Just a reminder on Menegola ... he was a Rookie with Hawthorn before Freo gave him a go, so when people have a go at Freo for letting Menegola go, they also need to respect that Hawthorn did too.
I think Menegola is one of those many stories that gets thrown around in WA by the Freo haters and so becomes something that it isn't.
I recently had a Slime supporter (West Coast) confidently say in a large group that Freo let all their good players go and then gave Menegola as an example.
I quickly responded with how Menegola was also let go by the Hawks and Freo gave him a few injury riddled seasons before delisting him. I asked for other examples and simply got silence from the large group. That is, none of them were aware of Menegola's history, just a story that Freo delisted him and he's now a very good player with another club.
 
dockerfemme said:
I am still waiting to see that Ross can put together a reasonable attack. I know that it can be argued that we need time to gel, and we have had disruption to our forward plans, but I think this is a minor reason. You can say exactly the same things about our midfield and they are going alright.
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Having one of the best players in the competition in your midfield does make a difference. Our forward line lost our best performing key forward and losing Lobb hurts as well. kicking goals relies on creativity, lowering vision and making correct split second decisions. Our players have struggled with this and it will only be addressed realistically over time when our players start to click with each other.
 

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PurpleEyes said:
Just a reminder on Menegola ... he was a Rookie with Hawthorn before Freo gave him a go, so when people have a go at Freo for letting Menegola go, they also need to respect that Hawthorn did too.
I think Menegola is one of those many stories that gets thrown around in WA by the Freo haters and so becomes something that it isn't.
I recently had a Slime supporter (West Coast) confidently say in a large group that Freo let all their good players go and then gave Menegola as an example.
I quickly responded with how Menegola was also let go by the Hawks and Freo gave him a few injury riddled seasons before delisting him. I asked for other examples and simply got silence from the large group. That is, none of them were aware of Menegola's history, just a story that Freo delisted him and he's now a very good player with another club.
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I'm not having a go at the club at all. I don't think it was unreasonable to delist him at the time for either us or the Hawks. Hindsight makes anyone look like a master list manager. The only one that irks me a little (although it is probably not justified) was missing J.Riewoldt. Only because I don't see how we don't win a flag if we had him in 2012-2015.
tacopavlich said:
Having one of the best players in the competition in your midfield does make a difference. Our forward line lost our best performing key forward and losing Lobb hurts as well. kicking goals relies on creativity, lowering vision and making correct split second decisions. Our players have struggled with this and it will only be addressed realistically over time when our players start to click with each other.
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I agree with this. Reckon heavy scoring teams would score well in PurpleEyes 'games together' stat.

Always makes me think of the Crows. Back in 2014/15 they did a lot of stuff right but consistently missed targets and selected the wrong options. They were a fringe finals side. Fastforward to 2017 and the same players couldn't miss those same kicks. Thats another 40 games together. Definitely makes a big difference.
 
tants said:
I've commented on individual players before but I think some of this is unfair to lump on Lyon. Further, some of those are playing no better than they played here, albeit perhaps with more opportunity. Mayne received an offer to good to refuse and I think needed a new start, more from the supporter base than the coaching staff. Who would you have in out from our side for him? I don't think he brings any more to the team than Duman, Tucker, Hughes who all come at a lower price tag. Menegola has regressed this season even allowing for injuries. Further, he had acknowledged that he didn't "try" hard enough. Collins is a very limited player who has been in and out of GCS - he is not a miss. Which leaves Crozier and de Boer, both of whom I think would add to our current list. Though in de Boer's case age means that he was never going to be valued by us as much as others. What they mostly have in common, in my opinion, is that they played good football at Freo and are playing it elsewhere too.

As you acknowledge all clubs have misses (and hits) with recycled players I don't think we are better or worse than most.
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Why does no one ever acknowledge that de boer plateaued? the guy was useless for us and playing for peel when he left! I could not be happier for him that he had some life breathed into his career at GWS and hes killing it now, but freo never would have got that form from him if he stayed
 
showemhowtorock said:
Why does no one ever acknowledge that de boer plateaued? the guy was useless for us and playing for peel when he left! I could not be happier for him that he had some life breathed into his career at GWS and hes killing it now, but freo never would have got that form from him if he stayed
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His form is as a tagger too, so we would have to have played him there, which seems unlikely given Ross' outlook on tagging lately.
 
Joao said:
His form is as a tagger too, so we would have to have played him there, which seems unlikely given Ross' outlook on tagging lately.
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he only just started tagging at GWS too and that is where all the hype has come from, he probably would have never played a that role at freo
 
I disagree on that. Chris is playing great footy at Collingwood. I think he was a big factor in Pies getting to the grand final.

And No, Brad was a bargain get for us.
I would not reverse that pick trade to Hawthorn at all.
 
dockerfemme said:
I am going to go out on a limb here and say I am still not entirely sold on Ross. I quoted myself, above, from 12 months ago, to give some context.

There is obviously a lot of good stuff happening. We have an awesome defence (even without Alex it looks quite good) our midfield is playing well, even with disruption around our rucks, and we have had some great wins.

But we are sitting sixth on the ladder, with the 10th points for. I am still waiting to see that Ross can put together a reasonable attack. I know that it can be argued that we need time to gel, and we have had disruption to our forward plans, but I think this is a minor reason. You can say exactly the same things about our midfield and they are going alright. IMO to date we have had a poor structure and approach for going inside 50. I think to maximise our chances of a premiership we need to be a team that can score at a rate similar to other teams around us on the ladder. To date we haven't. If Ross is speaking to Bell every week about bringing in more forward coaching expertise, then good on him, if not, then I still have doubts.

I also question whether Ross (and the club) get the most out of enough players on the list. There are obviously players that thrive under Ross. But we have a lot of players that are doing well elsewhere (de Boer, Mayne, Crozier, Menegola, Sam Collins) and maybe were undervalued by the club. From what I can think of, this seems a lot by comparison with other clubs. Sydney undervalued Tom Mitchell and did not get the best of Gary Rohan. Geelong undervalued Hamling and did not get the best of Josh Caddy. It seems to me that 5 is a lot. It is not a question of whether we need these players now, but whether we maximise the players that we have at any point in time. I am disappointed in Cerra and Cox this year so far (I know Cox's injury may have set him back) but this reinforces my concerns in this area.
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Fairly balanced post, well done.

Disagree strongly with the player's who have left.

Chris Mayne - Great bloke, one of the good guys. Peaked in 2013 but declined from 2014 onwards.

I would all but guarantee you wouldn't be able to find a single poster lamenting him leaving. Freo receiving a 2nd rounder for him as compensation is unbelievable, even know. And when you consider we flipped it for BHilly, even more so.

Lyon got the best out of him.

Hayden Crozier - Some on here liked him, to me he was always a below average player who got an occasional highlight from his leap. He and Sheridan are everything wrong with the compromised drafts.

Possibly doing better at the Bulldogs than Freo but slightly better than s**t is still s**t.

Sam Collins - Depth player only. I have heard from a mate that knows him that Freo asked him to bulk up which made him slower and shitter. Probably some truth in it, could still be on the list as depth only.

Not a great loss, the fact he spent a year in the VFL and was picked up by Gold Coast indicate to me he isn't great especially compared to our current back 6.

Menegola - Clearly better at Geelong than here, again spent a year in the WAFL before getting picked up. Has become average again this year (no idea why), but doesn't scream massive loss.

If he couldn't get a game with us in 3 years, good on him for making a solid career out of it.

Sheridan - Spud here, spud at GWS. Seems like a good bloke and liked by the playing group.

De Boer - Good bloke, if he and DPearce's situations were reversed he wouldn't have been cut. Victim of circumstance but not needed currently.

No coach is perfect, it is easy to look at the player's who failed. But it is also easy to look at guys like Neale, Fyfe, Walters, Ryan, Darcy and Alex Pearce as players who have thrived under Lyon.
 
Fred Ziffel said:
I disagree on that. Chris is playing great footy at Collingwood. I think he was a big factor in Pies getting to the grand final.

And No, Brad was a bargain get for us.
I would not reverse that pick trade to Hawthorn at all.
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You could equally say the same about 2013 and us making the GF. The 2013 prelim versus Sydney is worth a re-watch. He was key to our forward line manic pressure.

People remember the 2015 prelim miss but Mayne played good footy for us as well.
 
showemhowtorock said:
Why does no one ever acknowledge that de boer plateaued? the guy was useless for us and playing for peel when he left! I could not be happier for him that he had some life breathed into his career at GWS and hes killing it now, but freo never would have got that form from him if he stayed
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Current de Boer would add to the list but he was superfluous for the last 3 seasons. Of course, I doubt he would have made it through those 3 seasons.
 
With credit to Ron The Bear, Ross has us punching above our weight more than any side in the comp in terms of ladder position vs average age of the 22 on the park.

Ron The Bear said:
Cb .AvAge ARnk Lddr Dff
-----------------------
Ha .26.25 .1st 12th -11
Co .26.24 .2nd .3rd .-1
Ad .26.23 .3rd .4th .-1
WC .26.09 .4th .5th .-1
Ge .25.93 .5th .1st .+4
NM .25.82 .6th 13th .-7
GWS 25.69 .7th .2nd .+5
Es .25.45 .8th 10th .-2
Br .25.13 .9th .7th .+2
PA .24.90 10th .9th .+1
Me .24.80 11th 16th .-5
Fr .24.78 12th .6th .+6
Ri .24.68 13th .8th .+5
Sy .24.63 14th 15th .-1
St .24.40 15th 11th .+4
Ca .24.35 16th 18th .-2
WB .24.31 17th 14th .+3
GC .23.83 18th 17th .+1
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jedi mind tricks said:
********

We have a very good young list that's clearly developing

You are a nuffie
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You mean a midfield with a premiership player, a Brownlow medalist, mundy? And a forward line consisting of Walters clearly in career best form, Jesse hogan, and a defence with a premiership player, all our kpp have elite players in them with the right mix of youth, we have easily the best midfield in the comp, we’re under performing, but y’all can make excuses till it clicks I guess
 
jedi mind tricks said:
You don't have a life or you wouldn't be on here slagging off Freo. You would have better things to do with your life
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Not really it’s a pick up of my phone when we’re losing to third bottom and I’m watching the game, so much effort, anyway I’ve vented see you again next week
 
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