List Mgmt. Ross Lyon - Sacked

[Grandstan]

Ross hates the media, I'm sure that's obvious to all. Straight from the mans mouth himself. Can't say I blame him. Some of the questions and lack of respect they give the coaches, trying to get a rise out of them.

I think Ross understands there are good and bad journos. He bears long grudges with some. But he also gets along with plenty - for example that deadlocked guy.
He's going to be asked about individual players after a match, he should be able to handle that.

 

[Grandstan]

My recollection is he prefaced it all by saying he hadn't 'drilled into' individual stats or performance and had only a broad brush impression of the game's momentum shifts and they proceeded to ask a procession of Q's about individual performances.
Part of the issue is preprepared Q's which they stick to regardless of what is said.

Your post was funny, but do you really think Ross shouldn't answer questions about players' performances in the post match presser? It's pretty standard fare.
Ross is loyal and prioritises the messaging to his team in these interviews, but he also needs to talk to the fans. Otherwise you end up with Malthouse dickery.

 

[scon]

I made no comment on whether I thought he should answer questions about player performance.The presser is a FOX/AFL contractual obligation.
What I was commenting on was the journos inability to think and adjust or reframe Q's to match the interviewee's response.
If he says 'My mother is not dead!' then stop making reference to the deceased mum is all.

 

[FreoMonocle]

If he has indicated that he has nothing more to add to a line of questioning, the press should move on - there a thousands of questions that could be asked about game day, the club or the AFL. All they do is shorten the session and miss out on information.

Maybe if it was someone who speaks before thinking, they might get something incorrectly worde or an answer on a sensitive subject before the brain tells him to shut up and thus get a gotcha moment, but after all these years they should know that they are wasting their breath with Ross.

 

[TheMcManusNose]

One thing that has shat me the last few weeks is that our forwards have really been pressing up a long way. Pretty much to the defensive edge of the centre square when we're defending.

I get that all AFL teams push everyone up to at least the middle bar perhaps a lone forward, but we have really gone overboard with it. And it's something I think we moderated well in the Dogs game, and to some extent the Melbourne one, and thus were able to transition the ball much more rapidly. We held our structure a little better and had targets to move the ball to if we did get it. Because partially it is a personnel issue with the kicking but it is also having the targets upfield. And having the space for them to lead up at the ball. It's no use just banging it over the back and hoping a slow-ish KPF can run on to it. Because every team plays at least one sweeper (see Lever last night). We need to have our deeper forwards sitting at least around that halfway mark so we have options.

Yeah we do need to look at drafting a KPF because apart from Dardy McCrafty, the other two aren't good long term options IMO (at least not both together - I could handle one or the other if there is someone else of genuine quality who can pull the attention away). But having a player like JJK or the GC Lynch or someone isn't really going to help if we set up the same way.

 

[StingBitten]

... just not sure... just not sure...

 

[Scham]

I refuse to believe that Ross could be out coached by Buckley. Surely not...?

 

[Sweetback]

I'm back on the sack Ross bandwagon. I don't think his methods are sustainable. I get sick of seeing our players counting the setup in the midfield like a bunch of dumb kids counting on their fingers to add up. It looks so counterintuitive. I don't see other teams being so rigid and it's shitting me.

 

[salim malik]

I'm back on the sack Ross bandwagon. I don't think his methods are sustainable. I get sick of seeing our players counting the setup in the midfield like a bunch of dumb kids counting on their fingers to add up. It looks so counterintuitive. I don't see other teams being so rigid and it's shitting me.

Fyfe is s**t and sack the coach. Really.

 

[Ripper]

I'm back on the sack Ross bandwagon. I don't think his methods are sustainable. I get sick of seeing our players counting the setup in the midfield like a bunch of dumb kids counting on their fingers to add up. It looks so counterintuitive. I don't see other teams being so rigid and it's shitting me.

That is encouraging , if the bloke that reckons Fyfe had a stinker and should be dropped says that then that means it's all good.

 

[Fat Nyfe]

Whether you like Ross or not, can we not base opinions on him depending on wins and losses. That's a bit sensationalist. Leave that crap to the media

 

[TheMcManusNose]

Yeah that one was atrocious. Still have issues with what the plan seems to be for the forwards and moving the ball out of deep defence needs work.

Jumping on and off sacking bandwagons is stupid I reckon. It takes more than a few months to really get a team working well together and it takes more than one off-season to rebuild a list.

Results wise, we're way ahead of where I thought we'd be. Visually, the last two weeks were probably worse than where I thought we'd be. Re-asses at the end of season.

 

[tek87]

we have a bottom 4 list. overachieving atm but things will level out and its starting to happen. our forward efficiency was not the problem today. midfield beaten again without Sandilands even though Griffen competed well. but lets sack the coach anyhow and replace with Peter Sumich or Mick Malthouse or an untested coach. Trade Fyfe while you are at it and get some untested draft picks in here. also get Kim Hagdorn as our media manager

 

[meima]

we have a bottom 4 list. overachieving atm but things will level out and its starting to happen. our forward efficiency was not the problem today. midfield beaten again without Sandilands even though Griffen competed well. but lets sack the coach anyhow and replace with Peter Sumich or Mick Malthouse or an untested coach. Trade Fyfe while you are at it and get some untested draft picks in here. also get Kim Hagdorn as our media manager

Should suggest this early in the season , I afraid it is too late now .

 

[Outshined]

we have a bottom 4 list. overachieving atm but things will level out and its starting to happen. our forward efficiency was not the problem today. midfield beaten again without Sandilands even though Griffen competed well. but lets sack the coach anyhow and replace with Peter Sumich or Mick Malthouse or an untested coach. Trade Fyfe while you are at it and get some untested draft picks in here. also get Kim Hagdorn as our media manager

List isn't bottom 4 but I rate the rest of the post.

 

[sportsmaniac89]

6-5 into start of what potentially could be an ugly rebuild isn't the worst place that we could be and after last year's debacle is a vast improvement.

In saying that, I am fast losing faith that Ross Lyon is the long-term answer here.

My reasons for this are pretty simple.

So far I'm not totally convinced that he is committed to a full rebuild. I still see players getting games that perhaps don't deserve to (Hello Griffin, Spurr, Sutcliffe etc) but he can be excused on the count that there is no-one else that can replace them.

What I am concerned about is that for whatever reason, we are not mentally equipped at the start of the game. This is a coaching problem and needs to be addressed. Second of all, the game plan....we've seen snippets of what it can look like when it works but the problem is that at the moment, Plan A, B and C seem to be to flood the opposition's half and hope to score goals over the back. This is not good enough and in my mind indicates a lack of flexibility. The best coaches have a Plan A, B and C that are different but we seem to not have that and I am sick of it.

My concern is that at this point in time (yes maybe I'm going early and I hope to be proven wrong) Ross Lyon won't be leading us to a flag. I just think that our structures are a shambles and as for our ball movement out of defensive 50, we persist with the kick to a pack 60m out where we hope to force a stoppage (ball up or boundary throw in) and then reset. Without that bail-out option, I just don't see the structures that enable us to move the ball in a cohesive manner from one end to the other.

While I am prepared to acknowledge that we are rebuilding, in my mind, a rebuild is getting games into younger players and also reinventing the game plan to play a style that is more suited to the AFL in 2017. The reality is that I am seeing signs that we are trying to play the same game plan that we played from 2012-2015 in 2017 and it just doesn't cut it anymore.

For me, Ross Lyon had a lot of credits in the bank, lost a hell of a lot in 2016 and is getting close to an "all bets are off situation" unless something changes dramatically. Rebuild or not, my expectations are that we play a better style of football and that we play four quarters of football.....not the sort of frustrating crap that has defined most of this season.

 

[estibador]

In saying that, I am fast losing faith that Ross Lyon is the long-term answer here.

My reasons for this are pretty simple.

So far I'm not totally convinced that he is committed to a full rebuild. I still see players getting games that perhaps don't deserve to (Hello Griffin, Spurr, Sutcliffe etc) but he can be excused on the count that there is no-one else that can replace them.

Fair enough criticism in some instances. Griff over Darcy is the one that really bugs me in a rebuilding year.

No issues at all with extending Sandi's career for as long as possible, we're very lucky to have him, but when a window opens where we need a replacement for a few games surely you blood the promising protege who's been playing really well in the WAFL?

What I am concerned about is that for whatever reason, we are not mentally equipped at the start of the game. This is a coaching problem and needs to be addressed.

Coaching problem or teething problem with a rebuilding team?

I still have the first Geelong final recorded (the one at the MCG where we absolutely trounced them in the first qtr) and one of the highlights is Ling talking about how they were in the rooms pregame and watched the gradual build-up from calm to berserker frenzy just before we ran out.

Lyon has form at being a great motivator (hell, we've already punched above our weight this year and won games we shouldn't have) so I'm not going to hang him for that just yet.

My concern is that at this point in time (yes maybe I'm going early and I hope to be proven wrong) Ross Lyon won't be leading us to a flag. I just think that our structures are a shambles and as for our ball movement out of defensive 50, we persist with the kick to a pack 60m out where we hope to force a stoppage (ball up or boundary throw in) and then reset. Without that bail-out option, I just don't see the structures that enable us to move the ball in a cohesive manner from one end to the other.

Ball movement out of D50 has been terrible, agreed. Seems to be one of the things Lyon coached teams struggle with compared to others.

While I am prepared to acknowledge that we are rebuilding, in my mind, a rebuild is getting games into younger players and also reinventing the game plan to play a style that is more suited to the AFL in 2017. The reality is that I am seeing signs that we are trying to play the same game plan that we played from 2012-2015 in 2017 and it just doesn't cut it anymore.

I don't agree that we're playing the same stagnant style. There's a noticeable emphasis on trying to play on more quickly.

A lot of those handballs selling teammates into trouble we complain about are the result of trying to move the ball on more quickly... and they continue to happen after the breaks when Lyon has presumably impressed on them how he wants them to play.

We're definitely trying to play a more fluent style, we just aren't very good at it yet, which is to be expected from a rebuilding team.

When you look at some of the horror losses other rebuilding teams have had over the years, we aren't going too bad really. Running at about par while punching above our weight every now and then. Teams with bad coaches don't tend to punch above their weight.

 

[Mr Fonebone]

I think we need a new coach.

Not that Lyon is terrible but its time for a change. He has some attributes that annoy me

He appears to be inflexible and slow to change.
He seems to lack the balls to take risks - whether it be on a young player or game plan.
He is an arrogant tosser. That business with young journalist after the Essendon game was downright embarrassing. Ross came across as a pompous bully.
He seems to have run out of ideas a long time ago. After the Port debacle he was forced, kicking and screaming, to ring the changes. The Bulldogs game was our best of the season. That first quarter the guys played with a freedom and flair not seen for yonks.
Since then I sense a slow drift back to same-old , same-old. I am expecting another tired loss against Brisbane.

 

[Kenny_01]

I think we need a new coach.

Not that Lyon is terrible but its time for a change. He has some attributes that annoy me

He appears to be inflexible and slow to change.
He seems to lack the balls to take risks - whether it be on a young player or game plan.
He is an arrogant tosser. That business with young journalist after the Essendon game was downright embarrassing. Ross came across as a pompous bully.
He seems to have run out of ideas a long time ago. After the Port debacle he was forced, kicking and screaming, to ring the changes. The Bulldogs game was our best of the season. That first quarter the guys played with a freedom and flair not seen for yonks.
Since then I sense a slow drift back to same-old , same-old. I am expecting another tired loss against Brisbane.

I think you are so far off the mark.

"Inflexible and slow to change" - The amount of times we have been dominated this year only for us to change things up at the break and then get back into the game and often get on top has been astounding. I feel like our match day coaching has been sensational.

"He seems to lack the balls to take risks" - aren't we playing through the corridor more than any other side?

"He is an arrogant tosser" - give me someone who is a little arrogant but has a strong personality and is calm when it feels like the club is struggling. Someone who also backs his team to the hilt rather than someone who wilts to the media. Who can remember Harvey's answer to "what does Fremantle stand for?"

I for one think you are over-rating our list if you think we are better than a 6-5 side. Taking out last year and every year we have performed well under Ross. I am hopeful once we finish weeding out the older players and getting more experience into our team that we will again be figuring heavily in the business end of the season.

 

[E Shed]

The Bulldogs game was our best of the season. That first quarter the guys played with a freedom and flair not seen for yonks.
Since then I sense a slow drift back to same-old , same-old. I am expecting another tired loss against Brisbane.

yeah thats the bit that scares me the most. He just grinds them down to the point they are paralysed with indecision.
He gets a buy in that allows mediocre players to punch above their weight but once it wears off the team is turgid and lethargic.

 

[Sweetback]

yeah thats the bit that scares me the most. He just grinds them down to the point they are paralysed with indecision.
He gets a buy in that allows mediocre players to punch above their weight but once it wears off the team is turgid and lethargic.

This is my number one reason for wanting him gone.

 

[Unique Name]

Why would any of our better players re-sign then? Surely if it's so easy for us to see this about Ross then the boys on the inside should see this too. Why did Neale re-sign, we were in the pits last year and Neale could have gone anywhere. He knew we were about to start a rebuild, if he thought Ross couldn't do it why would he stay? From reports he didn't sign for an outrageous deal.

Ross got the best out of a side with quite a few mediocre players. Now all of a sudden this is a negative on Ross.

Half our team has played less than 50 games. Unfortunately that's going to mean inconsistency. Also the fact that our forward line is almost completely new. Apart from Walters who isn't a full time forward this year every other forward wasn't in our forward line last year.

We're a rebuilding side and it's not going be a smooth journey back to the top 4. I think Ross and our coaches have shown quite a bit this year. Clearly changing things up after qtr/half time breaks. So well that we've been able to sneak a few wins that perhaps some would consider lucky.

How about we give our most successful coach ever a chance at rebuilding and not question him 11 games in.

 

[Boppo]

Danger signs

The exciting brand of footy we displayed in round 3 is slowly being eradicated from our game as the RtB typical gameplam is being adopted.

Typically we win by overpowering numbers at the breakdown and zone defence. As the game goes on it makes it tough for opposing teams to score but It sucks as a spectacle as well. Once the stoppage is lost, we flood back and fill gaps with only the very last line playing man on man. That allows opposition to chip the ball around and rack up huge possessions, marks in front of goal and inside 50s. Pies, Dons, Blues Eagles crowd all 50 odd possessions up by halftime. In the case of The good teams..huge scores in the first 20 mins. It is also energy sapping to be chasing so much.

We take the best part of the first quarter figuring out where to stand in the zone. When we get the zone wrong, the opposition finds loose men everywhere. We're expected to regain the ball deep in defence and try and counter but of course, everyone is behind the ball and the forward line looks like an empty green pasture. Getting it out is a battles without 211.

We ran over a couple of teams but we're in turn overrun by a fitter team last weekend. The Carlton game in the wet particular took its toll no wonder we got hammered by the Crows.

Of all the games, last week was the most sobering it shows glimpses of why young was layers with flair Langdon and Balic haven't put pen to paper yet.

 

[freo1997]

Sacking ross is not the answer...bringing in an assistant with senior experience like vossy would be bloody superb imo. Need more credentials in that coaching panel.

 

[meima]

Getting rid of Ross is not the solution.