List Mgmt. Ross Lyon - Sacked

Is Ross still the man for the job?

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Time to go Ross
We supporters (aka customers) have said for years what’s wrong and nothing changes
Years of no improvement
If I rocked up to work for a MONTH and ignored all advice and made zero changes/improvements I’d be sent home.
Time. To. Go.
 

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kingswood71 said:
I agree. I also know that in elite sport, skills and decision making go down hill sometimes when under pressure. Training is 100% different to game day. Ross can only do so much...he isnt kicking out of bounds on the full. He isnt making poor handball decisions.
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But Ross Lyon is known throughout the AFL community as coaching effort over skills, he has never been known for having a highly skilful team. So as I said, he can throw his head back all he wants when they make a mistake but it is 100% his own doing. He is the head coach.

But he can't kick it for them can he :rolleyes:
 
Tayl0r said:
Amazing how Carlton can win 60% of their games when they push their juniors out of the key midfield roles and Gold Coast aren't getting anything but a priority pick while one of the top sides mids was cut from their roster because they were going to prefer the juniors in that key midfield role.
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Grammar is good.
 
Tayl0r said:
If their supporters had just held their nerve in the middle of the season they would have an extra pick before the first round like Gold Coast and then could put their bigger bodies back in the middle again next season.
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So they were tanking, but then they changed their mind and now that finals are out of reach, they stop tanking?

Lol, wow, nice mental gymnastics. You really struggle to admit you're wrong, don't you?
 
dont bowl there said:
But Ross Lyon is known throughout the AFL community as coaching effort over skills, he has never been known for having a highly skilful team. So as I said, he can throw his head back all he wants when they make a mistake but it is 100% his own doing. He is the head coach.

But he can't kick it for them can he :rolleyes:
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100%?
So no player responsibility at all for skill errors or stupid decision making.
Okay got it now.
Thanks for the help!
 
dont bowl there said:
But Ross Lyon is known throughout the AFL community as coaching effort over skills, he has never been known for having a highly skilful team. So as I said, he can throw his head back all he wants when they make a mistake but it is 100% his own doing. He is the head coach.

But he can't kick it for them can he :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

What do people actually mean when they criticise Lyon for not coaching skills?
Are we talking general disposal efficiency, kicking at goals, ... ???
I ask this, because I often give this topic thought and I end up with more questions rather than answers.
Right now, in 2019, West Coast look like a skillful team and I often read posts here on BF that say West Coast train skills more than Freo.
But when I watch West Coast and look at their most skilled players, they are players that have displayed those skills for some time, most prior to Simpson's recent coaching.
I'm just unsure how much of what we perceive as skills is a mix of natural talent, external pressure, good decision making, and various other factors.
Now I'm sure a coaches game plan or the structures that a team applies to a game will also have an influence.
But if people can give examples of individual players for Freo and other teams that appear to lack skills that can be attributed to their coaching, I'd find that interesting.
(I think Freo has been unlucky with injuries (& other issues) to some of our naturally talented players. eg. Bennell, Morabito, SHill, Yarran, Simpson, etc...)
 
kingswood71 said:
Man you keep changing the goal posts :)!! So "point per game' or "one goal a game more" which is it you are referring to?
As it stands now, last year we kicked 224 goals at 10.2 goals per game. We now have 215 goals at an average of 10.2 goals per game....
We kick 10 goals on the weekend we have improved...just.
I know you dont like excuses....but.. We lost Tabs and Hogan, both of who were averaging a goal a game. Then include Lobb who averages just under a goal a game, and there is an extra 2.8 goals a game....
In regards to if Lyon can do that for us?....I look at past stats involving Lyon at Freo and yes, I think he can....2013 to 2015 we averaged 12-13 goals a game...with an awesome defense.
I see a lot of posts about our forward entries "Bombing it in"....but I also have seen a lot of controlled entries that have resulted in marks inside 50.
I think that is what he is aiming for....
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Even with those players in we were only scoring (weighted) 5 points more per game. Not 2.8 goals. So your answer seems based on hope and optimism. Which is fair enough. I appreciate you taking the time to answer.
 

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kingswood71 said:
And to add to that, dont we do drills at training?...Pretty sure thats skills training..
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I can’t comment on what other clubs do, however, Mark Duffield has written about the difference he sees in Eagles training vs us. He says there is a real focus on skills training at Eagles that he does not see at Dockers. Brad Sheppherd, who won the medal in the last derby, spoke of their focus on skills training, Ross has been quoted as saying he does not teach skills, and there was an article a year or so ago, that said the Dockers players had arranged skills training with assistance coaches.

There seems to be enough info around to suggest we do not have the same focus on skills. I do not know what this means in practical terms, drills, whatever.

I know if Ed stays, if i was coaching, I would spend the whole summer keeping him fit and getting his kicking sorted. He knows how to play on the wing, and, if he kicked reasonably, he would be elite.
 
dockerfemme said:
I can’t comment on what other clubs do, however, Mark Duffield has written about the difference he sees in Eagles training vs us. He says there is a real focus on skills training at Eagles that he does not see at Dockers. Brad Sheppherd, who won the medal in the last derby, spoke of their focus on skills training, Ross has been quoted as saying he does not teach skills, and there was an article a year or so ago, that said the Dockers players had arranged skills training with assistance coaches.

There seems to be enough info around to suggest we do not have the same focus on skills. I do not know what this means in practical terms, drills, whatever.

I know if Ed stays, if i was coaching, I would spend the whole summer keeping him fit and getting his kicking sorted. He knows how to play on the wing, and, if he kicked reasonably, he would be elite.
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Turning over 3/4 of the list in 3 years means you need to focus more on structures. There's no point focusing on skills if you don't know where the players are going to (or meant to) run. We need the limited time available with the whole group to work on structure. That is why it is on the players to work on their skills. If this group stays together for 5 years, then the structures look after themselves and you can focus on skills (a bit like the Eagles are doing).
 
tants said:
Turning over 3/4 of the list in 3 years means you need to focus more on structures. There's no point focusing on skills if you don't know where the players are going to (or meant to) run. We need the limited time available with the whole group to work on structure. That is why it is on the players to work on their skills. If this group stays together for 5 years, then the structures look after themselves and you can focus on skills (a bit like the Eagles are doing).
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exactly!!! cant build a house without walls, put them up and then paint them pretty later
 
kingswood71 said:
I agree. I also know that in elite sport, skills and decision making go down hill sometimes when under pressure. Training is 100% different to game day. Ross can only do so much...he isnt kicking out of bounds on the full. He isnt making poor handball decisions.
Click to expand...
He isn't providing opportunities in training to practice skills under perceived game pressure. Only just managing to practice some skills (don't include goal kicking because that rarely happens other than a few pop shots between drills) with no or little pressure.

That is full on his responsibility. There is no comparison to what we consider skill training and what Wet Toast consider skill training.
 
dont bowl there said:
Bit of online hyperbole but you get the point I was trying to make.
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Well yes I get your point, I just dont agree with it in its entirety.
WC, apparently the best trained in skills team in the whole universe (and perhaps other universes to!), still make errors dont they?......So whose fault is that?...100% coach? 80% coach and 20% players? 50/50?....or is it that no matter how good and how skillful players are, and no matter how well they are coached, they will still make mistakes?!!!!
 
tants said:
Turning over 3/4 of the list in 3 years means you need to focus more on structures. There's no point focusing on skills if you don't know where the players are going to (or meant to) run. We need the limited time available with the whole group to work on structure. That is why it is on the players to work on their skills. If this group stays together for 5 years, then the structures look after themselves and you can focus on skills (a bit like the Eagles are doing).
Click to expand...
We lost our best player last year, will lose 3 more this year plus Sandilands was asked to go round one more year and said * that. how many more will want out before "Ross the boss" gets given the flick.
 
BlueE said:
He isn't providing opportunities in training to practice skills under perceived game pressure. Only just managing to practice some skills (don't include goal kicking because that rarely happens other than a few pop shots between drills) with no or little pressure.

That is full on his responsibility. There is no comparison to what we consider skill training and what Wet Toast consider skill training.
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Well when you are down for the training sessions, what do they do?
I cant get there to training, way to far to travel
 
Fat Yak said:
We lost our best player last year, will lose 3 more this year plus Sandilands was asked to go round one more year and said fu** that. how many more will want out before "Ross the boss gets given the flick.
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Sandilands has retired, he was never figuring in the future, having said that I would have been happy for him to go around again.

There is plenty of conjecture about Hill x2 and Langdon. From what Brad Hill and Langdon have said, they are not planning on going anywhere (the media is painting a very different story). Which leaves Stephen Hill who hasn't been regularly in the side for 2 seasons. So we have lost Neale (who was a big loss) and nobody else (yet). We have been hammered by injuries (again).

But, if we can keep the group together for 5 years then we can shift the focus from structure to skills. It also helps to have the skilful players not injured (Pearce, Ryan, Wilson, Hill, Lobb, Hogan all make us look more skilful than their replacements).
 
dockerfemme said:
I can’t comment on what other clubs do, however, Mark Duffield has written about the difference he sees in Eagles training vs us. He says there is a real focus on skills training at Eagles that he does not see at Dockers. Brad Sheppherd, who won the medal in the last derby, spoke of their focus on skills training, Ross has been quoted as saying he does not teach skills, and there was an article a year or so ago, that said the Dockers players had arranged skills training with assistance coaches.

There seems to be enough info around to suggest we do not have the same focus on skills. I do not know what this means in practical terms, drills, whatever.

I know if Ed stays, if i was coaching, I would spend the whole summer keeping him fit and getting his kicking sorted. He knows how to play on the wing, and, if he kicked reasonably, he would be elite.
Click to expand...


Agree. Ed’s kicking was fine when we drafted him. Not elite but totally adequate. After what is it 5 seasons in a program of no skill emphasis he’s become shocking! That’s what happens.
 
tants said:
Sandilands has retired, he was never figuring in the future, having said that I would have been happy for him to go around again.

There is plenty of conjecture about Hill x2 and Langdon. From what Brad Hill and Langdon have said, they are not planning on going anywhere (the media is painting a very different story). Which leaves Stephen Hill who hasn't been regularly in the side for 2 seasons. So we have lost Neale (who was a big loss) and nobody else (yet). We have been hammered by injuries (again).

But, if we can keep the group together for 5 years then we can shift the focus from structure to skills. It also helps to have the skilful players not injured (Pearce, Ryan, Wilson, Hill, Lobb, Hogan all make us look more skilful than their replacements).
Click to expand...
Ask your self why are we getting those injuries? Pre season, Sandilands was required to do the same as a 2nd year player who is 15 years younger and you wonder why he blew his calf out before the start of the year.
 
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