List Mgmt. Ross Lyon - Sacked

[Admiral Byng]

For the rest of the year I'd like to see a new forward game plan. We don't have the players to clunk big contested marks inside the attacking 50 so we should just stop trying. Have a new rule of never kicking it long to the "hot spot" 10-20m out directly in front. Never, just stop doing it. Instead if we have to go the long bomb play for territory, kick it to the pocket and try to get an out of bounds, the opposition defenders will naturally help in that cause. Then set up for the boundary throw in. Gives us time to set up in defence to protect against the quick counter-attack.
Try and work a snap-shot on goal or manufacture the short bomb to the top of the goal square. Our tall forwards are more likely to mark a hacked short bomb than slow long bomb because there is less time for the opposition defenders to form a pack around where the ball is going to drop.
We should also coach our players in staging for frees around the throw-ins and try to get a couple of extra freebie shots on goal per game that way.
Anyone with the ball inside of about 35m out should have a ping as the first option instead of looking for a hand-pass to a guy with a clearer view.

 

[jedi mind tricks]

Yet another weak statement with no analysis or thought. Don't forget that McPharlin retired before the new rules were brought in and the rotation cap. The flood and congestion don't work anymore and they suck the Joy out of footy.

No analysis

Luke McPharlin did retire before the rotation cap however has an extensive knowledge of the game. You however have never played yet you mock his opinion.

I'd back Luke's opinion over a nuffie any day of the week.

 

[yakka man]

No analysis

Luke McPharlin did retire before the rotation cap however has an extensive knowledge of the game. You however have never played yet you mock his opinion.

I'd back Luke's opinion over a nuffie any day of the week.

Yep, and his opinion was that they still flood and play the 2015 game plan, just worse, which is the problem. Other teams transition the footy well. We have looked good this year when we have attacked, Ross needs to embrace it. McPharlin's opinion wasn't praising our style of footy either you pillock. I notice how you didn't address any points of my post btw (particularly how the older players are the main culprits not the kids), weak.

 

[Talking Dockers]

Posted in another thread my thoughts about this .
Agree wholeheartedly we need to bring in some quality assistants to give Lyon a hand.He can't do it all himself that much is true. Clarksons brilliant but he's had some very astute lieutenants along the way.Even the best need a good support crew.

Unfortunately tho it's not easy when we're based in WA.The likes of ratten and Dew are pipe dreams but where i think we can get them is through opportunity,so we need to identify the best up and comers or as you mentioned in hodges case recently retired players,like we did with hale(again tho someone like hodge won't be short of options)

Totally agree on longmuir ,plus he probably in the sumich basket of clearly wanting to get a broader experience base in order to go to the next level but not wanting to move over east yet. The fact that he's in charge of pretty successful fwd line should see him as a high priority

The other local candidate I'd look at is Jarrad Schofield,yes he's in charge of a great program at subi but he gets some pretty good raps around the joint.Like longmuir is a former player too

We went out and got Guerra and Hale at end of 2015 from Hawks to bring in "the hawks way" it was a failure in 2016 due to the fact we had/still have Players who have below AFL standard skill in kicking the ball. Guerra has been sent to peel as a development coach while Hale who was a Develop coach last year is now our forwards coach. Yes both Multi premiership players but are they any good a coaching??

Also we have had got Marc Webb won many premierships with Subi as a players and won one with Claremont as a coach. spent a few years as development coach at Peel got promoted to midfield coach in 2016 and now back to peel in 2017 as Head Development coach.

Anthony Rock from Peel 2016 to Mids coach in 2017.

We have Michael Pryor as our Backs coach for last few yrs and dare I say we have had a lot of difficulty transitioning out of our D50.

Famously at end of 2006 the Cats kept Bomber Thompson (only Just) and had a clean out of the assistants and the rest is history.

Richmond are doing better in 2017 by getting rid of the assistant bring in new ideas.

The Egirls are on a winner with Sam Mitchell as a coach going forward he is already coaching now!!

Wish List:

Senior Assistant: Justin Longmuir(lets poach him)

Forwards Coach - Nick Reiwolt

Mids Coach - Luke Hodge Stoppages - Mark Stone

Back Coach - Luke MacPharlin

Ruck Coach - Aaron Sandilands

Development:

Head of development - Marc Webb

Development Coaches- Roger Hayden(Has been doing an an excellent job last 4/5 yrs)
Dave Hale

 

[Freo15]

I'm not suggesting the new stadium doesn't change the game for many.
Simply saying I'll still give the club the money.
I accept that when you are rebuilding a list that already had some gaping holes in it,some of the stuff dished up will be hard on the eye.

I accept the rebuild. I accept Ross is here to stay. I accept that fans have the right to question Ross. His opinion on Ballantyne being essential next year and Barlow and others being expendable last year is bizarre. I don't accept how he has his favourites and don't like how he doesn't change things around much during a game when things aren't working. It's the Ross playing faves thing that will make me question renewing the membership, not the inconsistency of a young squad.

On SM-G900I using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[go_the_dockers]

I accept the rebuild. I accept Ross is here to stay. I accept that fans have the right to question Ross. His opinion on Ballantyne being essential next year and Barlow and others being expendable last year is bizarre. I don't accept how he has his favourites and don't like how he doesn't change things around much during a game when things aren't working. It's the Ross playing faves thing that will make me question renewing the membership, not the inconsistency of a young squad.

On SM-G900I using BigFooty.com mobile app

Barlow was out of contract. I doubt Ballas will get a contract, I think that was Ross just talking him up.

Next year more youth will be played because we will have more available.

No one in the wafl is currently demanding a spot if someone else.

Collins has been solid, but is behind Johnson and Hamling and playing all 3 would not improve us.

 

[Scham]

We went out and got Guerra and Hale at end of 2015 from Hawks to bring in "the hawks way" it was a failure in 2016 due to the fact we had/still have Players who have below AFL standard skill in kicking the ball. Guerra has been sent to peel as a development coach while Hale who was a Develop coach last year is now our forwards coach. Yes both Multi premiership players but are they any good a coaching??

Also we have had got Marc Webb won many premierships with Subi as a players and won one with Claremont as a coach. spent a few years as development coach at Peel got promoted to midfield coach in 2016 and now back to peel in 2017 as Head Development coach.

Anthony Rock from Peel 2016 to Mids coach in 2017.

We have Michael Pryor as our Backs coach for last few yrs and dare I say we have had a lot of difficulty transitioning out of our D50.

Famously at end of 2006 the Cats kept Bomber Thompson (only Just) and had a clean out of the assistants and the rest is history.

Richmond are doing better in 2017 by getting rid of the assistant bring in new ideas.

The Egirls are on a winner with Sam Mitchell as a coach going forward he is already coaching now!!

Wish List:

Senior Assistant: Justin Longmuir(lets poach him)

Forwards Coach - Nick Reiwolt

Mids Coach - Luke Hodge Stoppages - Mark Stone

Back Coach - Luke MacPharlin

Ruck Coach - Aaron Sandilands

Development:

Head of development - Marc Webb

Development Coaches- Roger Hayden(Has been doing an an excellent job last 4/5 yrs)
Dave Hale

You ask whether 2 of our current coaches can coach but then want to employ 3 blokes that have never coached before and another that's struggling as an assistant at WAFL level all as senior assistances and you think that'll improve us???

 

[Outshined]

Think a few of you need to take a deep breath and realise that no matter how hard you wish for it, Ross will have at least a significant portion of next year before he comes under genuine scrutiny. The club backed him in to take charge of the rebuild so it'd be ridiculous for them to sack him so soon into it.

I'm a bit torn on how this year's panning out. There's been some evidence of change and growth this year among the playing group and the manner we've played. Unfortunately, that change hasn't been persistent and has largely been fleeting in its appearance in our play style, particularly lately. It's perfectly fine to be inconsistent in a year when we're blooding youth, but to be so totally inept at scoring is worrying. There's an argument to cite 2012 and the fact that we were stuck in similar circumstances for the first half of the season, but at the same time we're in an unenviable position of having scored 12 goals across 2 games from 96 inside 50s, after almost a whole year of apparently adapting to a new game plan. We keep doing the same thing over and over and expect different results and that ultimately falls back on the coach.

Last night was completely unacceptable, but the club's elected to play the long game so you have to honour that with a bit of patience. I'm also curious to see how we go at the new stadium. Ross has been a damn good coach, it's just still a question over whether he can be a damn good coach in a new era of open, aggressive football. At the very least he needs better support around him, our current assistant coaches don't inspire a lot of confidence. I'd argue how we reshape the coaching panel will be just as important as the draft/trade period this year.

 

[Talking Dockers]

Think a few of you need to take a deep breath and realise that no matter how hard you wish for it, Ross will have at least a significant portion of next year before he comes under genuine scrutiny. The club backed him in to take charge of the rebuild so it'd be ridiculous for them to sack him so soon into it.

I'm a bit torn on how this year's panning out. There's been some evidence of change and growth this year among the playing group and the manner we've played. Unfortunately, that change hasn't been persistent and has largely been fleeting in its appearance in our play style, particularly lately. It's perfectly fine to be inconsistent in a year when we're blooding youth, but to be so totally inept at scoring is worrying. There's an argument to cite 2012 and the fact that we were stuck in similar circumstances for the first half of the season, but at the same time we're in an unenviable position of having scored 12 goals across 2 games from 96 inside 50s, after almost a whole year of apparently adapting to a new game plan. We keep doing the same thing over and over and expect different results and that ultimately falls back on the coach.

Last night was completely unacceptable, but the club's elected to play the long game so you have to honour that with a bit of patience. I'm also curious to see how we go at the new stadium. Ross has been a damn good coach, it's just still a question over whether he can be a damn good coach in a new era of open, aggressive football. At the very least he needs better support around him, our current assistant coaches don't inspire a lot of confidence. I'd argue how we reshape the coaching panel will be just as important as the draft/trade period this year.

Lyon proved at Saints 2007-2011 and here at Dockers 2012 - 2015 he is a coach who can take an established group to a higher place.
He was forced to play youth from about RD 6 last year( he was into restump/reboot/rewire but Rosich was using the word rebuild!!) BUT reverted back to backing the "Mature set" for RDs 1 & 2 this year and was found wanting. Has he got the patience to rebuild the list or will it just be too hard and he'll jump ship at end of 2018 fro a club with a more mature list??

 

[meima]

Lyon proved at Saints 2007-2011 and here at Dockers 2012 - 2015 he is a coach who can take an established group to a higher place.
He was forced to play youth from about RD 6 last year( he was into restump/reboot/rewire but Rosich was using the word rebuild!!) BUT reverted back to backing the "Mature set" for RDs 1 & 2 this year and was found wanting. Has he got the patience to rebuild the list or will it just be too hard and he'll jump ship at end of 2018 fro a club with a more mature list??

I won't be surprised if Ross jump ship in 2018 , if tucker decided to go , 2015 main draft and trade look like a total burst , bennell, tucker ,balic,Collins and Yarran(retire ) could all be gone before 2019 .

* Hopefully bennell and tucker still be around .

 

[Outshined]

Lyon proved at Saints 2007-2011 and here at Dockers 2012 - 2015 he is a coach who can take an established group to a higher place.
He was forced to play youth from about RD 6 last year( he was into restump/reboot/rewire but Rosich was using the word rebuild!!) BUT reverted back to backing the "Mature set" for RDs 1 & 2 this year and was found wanting. Has he got the patience to rebuild the list or will it just be too hard and he'll jump ship at end of 2018 fro a club with a more mature list??

It's a fair criticism that he didn't properly commit to a rebuild through his team selections sooner, but this year post Rd 2 his selections have mostly aligned to a team "rewiring" etc. Most supporters are happy we're persisting with a very young team, but personnel isn't the issue, the way we're playing is.

The whole thing about jumping ship is ridiculous speculation. It's been very well documented his contract situation at St Kilda was a sticking point...we swooped in while they dithered. In the context of his personal financial situation at the time, it was fair enough for him to accept the first big offer that came his way. Contrast it to 2016 where we (rightly or wrongly) extended through till 2020 and you can see the obvious difference.

 

[danstar]

#rosslyonout will be trending by this time next week

 

[Yeti]

Lyon proved at Saints 2007-2011 and here at Dockers 2012 - 2015 he is a coach who can take an established group to a higher place.
He was forced to play youth from about RD 6 last year( he was into restump/reboot/rewire but Rosich was using the word rebuild!!) BUT reverted back to backing the "Mature set" for RDs 1 & 2 this year and was found wanting. Has he got the patience to rebuild the list or will it just be too hard and he'll jump ship at end of 2018 fro a club with a more mature list??

I won't be surprised if Ross jump ship in 2018 , if tucker decided to go , 2015 main draft and trade look like a total burst , bennell, tucker ,balic,Collins and Yarran(retire ) could all be gone before 2019 .

* Hopefully bennell and tucker still be around .

If you think Ross Lyon will be able to leave Fremantle for a plum position elsewhere then I believe you have a poor understanding of his contract situation at St Kilda and his contract currently at Fremantle.

St Kilda put an exit clause in his contract so that they could terminate him with 3 months notice. He then asked for a 6 month clause to balance that out. During negotiations he didn't have a solid unconditional contract offer from St Kilda until the week he left (or thereabouts). It certainly seemed like the money he was offered was first at a reduced rate then around what he was already offering.

I highly doubt that our administration would allow such a clause to be put into his contract, especially with our financial situation compared to St Kilda.

Current contract discussion, see episode 17: https://www.9now.com.au/footy-classified

You can fast forward to the Ross Lyon interview. Take particular notice of when they discuss him coaching Collingwood.

Ross Lyon discusses his break from St Kilda:

He also addressed the round 1 & 2 teams earlier this year but I can't recall where it was. I certainly remembering him referencing the older players being given the opportunity to show they can still play. That was driven by the playing group. When it was clear that they were past it he had all the ammunition he needed to drive forward the rebuild.

There is no excuses for him not to be well on the way by mid 2019.

 

[Outshined]

I won't be surprised if Ross jump ship in 2018 , if tucker decided to go , 2015 main draft and trade look like a total burst , bennell, tucker ,balic,Collins and Yarran(retire ) could all be gone before 2019 .

* Hopefully bennell and tucker still be around .

You think he'll go because we may lose 1 or 2 player and had a poor draft?

Sorry mate but that's just stupid.

 

[meima]

You think he'll go because we may lose 1 or 2 player and had a poor draft?

Sorry mate but that's just stupid.

What about 4 player and result don't improve by mid 2018 season ? Anything is possible isn't it ,his favourite quotes this year.

 

[Outshined]

What about 4 player ?

I'm still trying to grasp your point. Why is Lyon's decision on staying at Freo somehow intrinsically linked to one draft year?

Plus we haven't lost any of those aforementioned names, not even Balic.

 

[Unique Name]

BUT reverted back to backing the "Mature set" for RDs 1 & 2 this year and was found wanting.

That was the biggest error the club has made in years. More than anything else this year it makes me question the judgement of Ross and co.

That round 1 side was never going to get anywhere near it and then to double down on the error out of stubbornness/pride/loyalty for round 2.... geez.

 

[estibador]

I always felt part of the reason Lyon left the Saints is because he could see the writing on the wall that their board and fans wouldn't have the patience to weather a down period while they reset for another crack at the top. Jumped before he was pushed for the promise of a shiny new 'rebuilding coach'.

Funny to see it repeating here now. At least our board is more sensible than the Saints', even if some of our fans are no different to theirs.

 

[Dirty_banchez]

Lyon said in his presser that we regressed last night, but for me I saw us doing the same old s**t. We are 16th in the league for scoring from forward 50 entries, and again in the 2nd quarter we could not put on scoreboard pressure. It is almost a given that a team will score against the run of play because we cannot score from forward 50 entries.

Ross harps on about pressuring the ball carrier, but the best form of pressure is scoreboard pressure. It's time Ross to give the fans something to cheer about.

#BanchezArrow

 

[fnerd]

We went out and got Guerra and Hale at end of 2015 from Hawks to bring in "the hawks way" it was a failure in 2016 due to the fact we had/still have Players who have below AFL standard skill in kicking the ball. Guerra has been sent to peel as a development coach while Hale who was a Develop coach last year is now our forwards coach. Yes both Multi premiership players but are they any good a coaching??

Also we have had got Marc Webb won many premierships with Subi as a players and won one with Claremont as a coach. spent a few years as development coach at Peel got promoted to midfield coach in 2016 and now back to peel in 2017 as Head Development coach.

Anthony Rock from Peel 2016 to Mids coach in 2017.

We have Michael Pryor as our Backs coach for last few yrs and dare I say we have had a lot of difficulty transitioning out of our D50.

Famously at end of 2006 the Cats kept Bomber Thompson (only Just) and had a clean out of the assistants and the rest is history.

Richmond are doing better in 2017 by getting rid of the assistant bring in new ideas.

The Egirls are on a winner with Sam Mitchell as a coach going forward he is already coaching now!!

Wish List:

Senior Assistant: Justin Longmuir(lets poach him)

Forwards Coach - Nick Reiwolt

Mids Coach - Luke Hodge Stoppages - Mark Stone

Back Coach - Luke MacPharlin

Ruck Coach - Aaron Sandilands

Development:

Head of development - Marc Webb

Development Coaches- Roger Hayden(Has been doing an an excellent job last 4/5 yrs)
Dave Hale

Agree with some points tho I think you ll find guerra approached us not the other way round.
Was happy enough when they appointed Webb but considering he's been promoted only to be demoted again would suggest he's not up to it,plus I havent been as impressed with the development of some of our players as others.

Prior is someone who seems 'part of the furniture ' in terms of our coaching panel ,which all clubs seem to have ,can't see him leaving anytime soon. Rock doesn't fill me with any sort of confidence while hale seems to be Ross 's right hand man now so I'll back him in for now.

In terms of replacements I ll be honest ,i really couldn't say....what makes a good assistant coach (indeed coach in general)is rather intangible to a general footy follower (like myself) I find. I mean the likes of Neeld/Harvey/Watters etc where all highly rated but average seniors tho seemingly good assistants. Clarkson and Lyon virtually 'no names'.

I do tend to agree with a post by ysaye in another thread tho....the better coaches tend to be the battlers ,not so much the 'stars' ,for the reasons he mentioned

 

[jedi mind tricks]

Yep, and his opinion was that they still flood and play the 2015 game plan, just worse, which is the problem. Other teams transition the footy well. We have looked good this year when we have attacked, Ross needs to embrace it. McPharlin's opinion wasn't praising our style of footy either you pillock. I notice how you didn't address any points of my post btw (particularly how the older players are the main culprits not the kids), weak.

You do realise Lyon is at the start of a rebuild not trying to tweak things for a top 4 finish?

You're ecpectation of him and constant criticism is beyond ludicrous.

 

[yakka man]

You do realise Lyon is at the start of a rebuild not trying to tweak things for a top 4 finish?

You're ecpectation of him and constant criticism is beyond ludicrous.

There's plenty of others critical of him too mate, why don't you go irritate then instead.

 

[Nolo180]

Lyon said in his presser that we regressed last night, but for me I saw us doing the same old s**t. We are 16th in the league for scoring from forward 50 entries, and again in the 2nd quarter we could not put on scoreboard pressure. It is almost a given that a team will score against the run of play because we cannot score from forward 50 entries.

Ross harps on about pressuring the ball carrier, but the best form of pressure is scoreboard pressure. It's time Ross to give the fans something to cheer about.

#BanchezArrow

Agreed. The game was lost to me early in the second quarter when they threw everything at the Hawks but they couldn't score. Its deflating similar to when mayne would miss an easy shot on goal after a whole lot of hard yakka down field and then the opposition waltz's down the other end for an easy goal like they did twice in the back half of the second quarter last night. Need reward for effort.

 

[jedi mind tricks]

There's plenty of others critical of him too mate, why don't you go irritate then instead.

Because you constantly do it and belittle the club during matches.

 

[yakka man]

Because you constantly do it and belittle the club during matches.

Everyone vents in game day threads. Mine are just directed at the game plan and coach instead of the players who are trying their best.