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Round 1 2012

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It is always a fun and debating exercise picking the best 22 however reality is that we will very rarely have our best 22 available at any given day even for round 1
 
Lawrst said:
^^ I like your side there DJ, i just dont think Tambling has done anything to be selected over Wright or Smith.
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I guess its more just wishful thinking as to what he might be able to do with a massive preseason rather then what he showed last year.
 
Re Ricky Henderson. Will he go backwards next year? He played 18 games this year with a couple standout games (rounds 8 & 13), but from all the prospective 2012 teams so far mentioned he is in only two!
So is it the case that this year he was only brought in to cover injuries, and with a fully fit team he is on the outer?
I thought he was played out of position this year, often given a role of key target in the forward line when perhaps he doesn't have the body (and bulk) for pack style contested footy, but round 13 when he played more of a link up player thought the middle he had a great game.
Does he have any supporters out there?
 
I haven't done a round 1 team, but I do rate Ricky. I think that the problem that most have with putting him into their best 22 is his inconsistency. Most people think hes got it, but he often comes off as a bit soft. Sometimes he comes in so hard, then 2 minutes later dodges a contest.

If I was to do a team line up, I'd put him in as a linking player as you suggested, because he was one of our best against the doggies. I thinly if played in this position every week he will develop consistency and confidence, and become a good player.
 

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B : Jaensch Rutten Johnston (or L Thompson)
HB : Otten Talia Petrenko

back line - I worry about tall forwards (Petrie, Franklin) Truck struggles against them and Talia is so raw, but our only real height back there, so either Johnston or LT to help in the air, and havent seen Johnston yet!
And dont we all want to see more Petrenko from the back line, not up forward!

HF : Lynch Tippett Douglas
F : Wright Walker Johncock

forward line - want some x-factor! Stiffy permanent forward this year, he makes something happen. Jaensch and Pets to be groomed for his running back spot. Lynch, guess we recruited him for opportunities, right? I prefer Douglas forward rather than midfield. All 3 smalls are decent marks for their size.

C : Knights Van Berlo(run with role) Sloane

R : Jacobs Thompson Dangerfield

I : Doughty Smith Vince (or MacKay)
Sub : Henderson

Doughty for small back, maybe mid, rotate Pets through middle.
Smith , young (hopeful) gun gotta play midfield
Vince/MacKay, should be guns, but... who has a better pre-season gets in.

Hendo as sub, just cos of speed and maybe versatility. I'm not over-confident of this tho, last year was poor, but want explosiveness to come onto the field in the second half.
 
B: Johncock Rutten Johnston
HB: Otten Talia Jaensch
C: Mackay Thompson* Knights#
HF: Vince*# Tippett^ Henderson#
FF: Porplyzia Walker Sloane*

R: Jacobs^ Dangerfield* van Berlo*

I/C: Reilly* Doughty* Lynch
Sub: Smith*

* donates midfield rotation
# Vince, Hendo and Knights rotating through wing and high forward (Vince also midfield rotation)

Wow really hard to pick!
Of course this assumes everyone is fully fit and ready for round 1 which is high unlikely!!

What I really want to see (position wise):

Jaensch across half back to use his foot skills
L Johnston across back lines for same reason
Dangerfield 80% midfield, 20% forward
Sloane 50% forward crumber (will be excellent in this role), 50% midfield
Jacobs/Tippet ruck/forward role. Lynch pushing forward as well.
Knights freed up around the ground rather than just stuck across half forward. He is a ball magnet when running around the ground so use it!
Vince forward and midfield.

Reilly and Doughty to only be used in midfield rotations (not to rest forward).
 
Rather than go for lines, I have decided to categorize players as Def, Mid rotation with Def or Fwd, Ruck and Fwd. Footy isn't played in lines anymore.

Geelong seem to structure their team similar to this, Key backs, fwds and rucks, with a whole lot of players who rotate through the midfield. I can see Sando structuring us the same way. Heck, it's won 3 of the last 5 flags.

Def: 1. Rutten, 2. Talia, 3. L. Thompson (wouldn't be surprised to see Johnston or Lynch in this role by the end of PS over LT)

Def with Mid rotation: 4. Jaensch, 5. Doughty (lets face it, he will be playing), 6. Petrenko, 7. Johncock, 8. Otten

Mid rotation: 9. S. Thompson, 10. Mackay, 11. Sloane, 12. Reilly (again, he will be playing), 13. Douglas, 14. Van Berlo, 15. Vince

Fwd with Mid rotation: 16. Wright, 17. Porplyzia, 18. Knights, 19. Dangerfield

Fwd: 20. Walker, 21. Tippett

Ruck: 22. Jacobs, (Tippett back up)

Who is the sub? Anyone's guess. But thats my 22.

Missed out: Tambling, Henderson, Smith, Brown, Johnston, Lynch, Martin, Riley, McKernan, Symes, Jenkins, Shaw, Lyons (+ 4 draftees)
 
I think our problem, and one by the sounds of it Sando wants to address is that we don't have pressure from the younger players to push out the older players.

Not because their form isn't good enough, but because the don't get given a chance. I think there are going to be a few shocks with selection over players like Doughty Vince Douglas Reilly Mackay and Knights with players like Tambling Smith Brown Shaw and even Lyons getting regular games over them.

Not because the other players arn't doing well enough, its about driving the team forward and increasing internal competition. Creating desperation for the players who get regular game and creating more hope for the younger players who are usually just waiting for an injury.
 
Turn it up Pete. Axe one of our few mature bodies who provide midfield relief for our young kids, not to mention a B&F winner a couple of years back and replace him with a pick in the 80's?
 

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FB: Doughty, Rutten, Johncock
CHB: Jaensch, Talia, Thompson
C: Mackay, Vince, Dangerfield
CHF: Knights, Johnston, Henderson
FF: Porplyzia, Tippett, Walker
1R: Jacobs, Thompson, van Berlo
INT: Smith, Petrenko, Sloane (Douglas)

All the makings of a good side, really. Just badly need more depth so when injuries/loss of form hit, we aren't bringing in spuds. Hope to see minimal games from Reilly, Symes.
 
Slippery Pete said:
Oh cmon mate.

On the criteria Vince was judged on, Douglas would have been joining him in the magoos.

We've been over Neil's selection criteria ad nauseum. It stunk.
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douglas was barely close to going out of the 22, let alone getting the axe. What were or options? Symes? Unprepared Lyons? Injured Shaw?

Nowhere near an axe, same as Vince. Both in our best 22 at present. Let's see if that changes as the younger lads challenge.
 
Lawrst said:
Not because their form isn't good enough, but because the don't get given a chance. I think there are going to be a few shocks with selection over players like Doughty Vince Douglas Reilly Mackay and Knights with players like Tambling Smith Brown Shaw and even Lyons getting regular games over them.
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Isn't that half the problem? Those blokes should be damn near undroppable at this point in their careers. They should all be either in their prime or just coming into it, as well as the fact that there's two B&F winners there. The fact that every week we're calling for one or more of them to be dropped (along with Symes) is pretty damning.

Mackay and Douglas at least should bounce back to their 2010 output, given a full pre-season. The rest, well they're just a big bunch of meh.
 
WALL-e said:
Think Brown will be close for Round 1. No Otto love Drum? Reco players usually take 1 year to recover, another year to mentally recover.
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Brown's around the mark, but can't see him getting a game in round 1 unless one of Johncock/Jaensch/Doughty are injured. Otten frustrates me, sometimes he does great things, and then he'll stuff something up. That's not just post-ACL Otten, that's just him. I'm struggling (a good thing) to think back towards the end of this year but there were games were he looked like the old Otten.
 

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FB: Otten, Rutten, Jaensch
CHB: Smith, Talia, Doughty
C: Vince, Thompson, Mackay
CHF: Sloane, Tippett, Knights
FF: Johncock, Walker, Johnston

1st R: Jacobs, Dangerfield, Van Berlo

Res: Petrenko, McKernan, Douglas, Tambling.

Just missed out: Thompson, Porplyzia, Henderson.
 
Kristof said:
FB: Otten, Rutten, Jaensch
CHB: Smith, Talia, Doughty
C: Vince, Thompson, Mackay
CHF: Sloane, Tippett, Knights
FF: Johncock, Walker, Johnston

1st R: Jacobs, Dangerfield, Van Berlo

Res: Petrenko, McKernan, Douglas, Tambling.

Just missed out: Thompson, Porplyzia, Henderson.
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Porps getting stiffed there. ;)
 
Otto was nowhere near his 2009 output. Main thing was he was hesitant, fumbly and completely without confidence. In 2009 he'd be Mr Agile with the footy, blind spins, very clean, one touch...but last year at times he struggled to bend down to get it. I think most of his issues last year were in his head.

God, it's hard to make a 22 when everyone's available. Even for us :)
 
Lawrst said:
I think our problem, and one by the sounds of it Sando wants to address is that we don't have pressure from the younger players to push out the older players.
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Yep, agree 100%
Lawrst said:
Not because their form isn't good enough, but because the don't get given a chance. I think there are going to be a few shocks with selection over players like Doughty Vince Douglas Reilly Mackay and Knights with players like Tambling Smith Brown Shaw and even Lyons getting regular games over them.
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Nope. Have to disagree with you here. The reason there was no pressure on the senior players is because the youngsters weren't even close to good enough to evict them. Sloane is a notable exception. Hopefully those younger players will lift in 2012, because their failure to improve in 2011 was one of the reasons why we failed as badly as we did.

The younger players had an abundance of opportunities. We used 39 players last year and 20 of them played 10+ games - and that 20 excludes a few "senior" names. Smith played 14 games, Wright 19, Jaensch 13, Henderson 18, Sloane 18, Petrenko 19, Otten 15, Dangerfield 22. None of our "young gun" midfielders were short of opportunities - they just weren't good enough (for the most part) to force the older players out.

Anyone who includes Tambling (25yo with 118 games) with the likes of Smith, Brown, Shaw & Lyon needs to have his head read. If anything, he's the prime example of a senior player who was cast adrift, in favour of a younger player, because his form wasn't good enough to justify ongoing AFL selection.
Lawrst said:
Not because the other players arn't doing well enough, its about driving the team forward and increasing internal competition. Creating desperation for the players who get regular game and creating more hope for the younger players who are usually just waiting for an injury.
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That's what 2011 was always going to be about - starting to weed out the youngsters, determining who has/had an AFL future and who doesn't. Our 2004-2010 delistings were dominated by the progressive departure of Dad's Army; there simply wasn't room to delist many of the failed young recruits. 2011 is/was the turning point, the point where we switched our delisting focus from the mass retirements of the previous generation to identifying the real talent amongst our youngsters - and getting rid of the dead wood.
Slippery Pete said:
Douglas was very lucky to escape the axe this year.
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As in lucky not to get dropped from the weekly team, or lucky not to get delisted? My guess is that neither position was in serious danger, though he did have a few poor games - but he wasn't even close to being delisted. We turned over 10 players this year and we know that Symes was next on the list. Much though you love to hate him, the reality is that his position on our list is/was as safe as houses.
 
Vader said:
Nope. Have to disagree with you here. The reason there was no pressure on the senior players is because the youngsters weren't even close to good enough to evict them. Sloane is a notable exception. Hopefully those younger players will lift in 2012, because their failure to improve in 2011 was one of the reasons why we failed as badly as we did.
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The thing is, who cares. We were playing horrible football, might as well have thrown the older players into the SANFL and show them their performances were not good enough. We did it to Vince, why not Douglas? Douglas was horrendous some games and dissapeared a lot this year. Horrible follow up to a B&F.

The younger players had an abundance of opportunities. We used 39 players last year and 20 of them played 10+ games - and that 20 excludes a few "senior" names. Smith played 14 games, Wright 19, Jaensch 13, Henderson 18, Sloane 18, Petrenko 19, Otten 15, Dangerfield 22. None of our "young gun" midfielders were short of opportunities - they just weren't good enough (for the most part) to force the older players out.
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Smith, how many was he the sub? Wright the same? How long did it take us to use Jaensch off half back? Hendo should have been dropped long before he was. Pets what a gun. Danger should have been in the middle more. Just saying.

Anyone who includes Tambling (25yo with 118 games) with the likes of Smith, Brown, Shaw & Lyon needs to have his head read. If anything, he's the prime example of a senior player who was cast adrift, in favour of a younger player, because his form wasn't good enough to justify ongoing AFL selection.
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He was fine until the Dvd.... Yes he might not be young but he is a new player to the club. Thats more what i was getting at. Our "senior" brigade had become too comfortable.

jackster83 said:
Isn't that half the problem? Those blokes should be damn near undroppable at this point in their careers. They should all be either in their prime or just coming into it, as well as the fact that there's two B&F winners there. The fact that every week we're calling for one or more of them to be dropped (along with Symes) is pretty damning.

Mackay and Douglas at least should bounce back to their 2010 output, given a full pre-season. The rest, well they're just a big bunch of meh.
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Yes it is, thats half my point tho! They have become to comfortable and knew Craigy was going to pick them. Where is the need to perform then? I don't think Sando is going to be so accomidating to the type of performances that Douglas, Reilly, Doughty, Vince and the crew served up last year. The should be our foundation, but they were the first tiles on the wall to fall off.
 
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