Strategy Round 1, 2014

[RandB]

I feel like Nathan jones , Colin garland and jack viney in the future are the real standouts onfield

All around the mark and IMO Tyson may have that balance between competitive hunger, getting the pill and maturity too down the track but early days.

 

[Gysberts2Bate]

I feel similarly but tbh both you and JackAttack7 are right.

IMO the type of leadership dynamic Dawes exudes will be very short-term simply because the group will make inroads as a whole. In a year or two he may simply stand out more as a good clubman than a "leader" per se. At Collingwood I think this was how he was seen and he'll assume that at Melbourne in due course.

The sort of leadership we'll need in a year or two is the on-ground warrior type ala a Voss, Judd etc rather than a mere "good guy" like Dawes even though he'll still be a good player in his own right.

There has to be a catalyst though. Dawes was one of the guys (along with Garland and N Jones) at the club in 2013 who helped keep the public's respect and the team's self-respect somewhat afloat and I do think it would have been a lot worse if we hadn't had his senior head there. I do agree that Dawes isn't a Voss or Judd type leader and I hope Trengove, Viney, Tyson and Watts step up to assume those kinds of roles in the future, but Dawes will always be that stalwart through thick times and thin.

 

[RandB]

There has to be a catalyst though. Dawes was one of the guys (along with Garland and N Jones) at the club in 2013 who helped keep the public's respect and the team's self-respect somewhat afloat and I do think it would have been a lot worse if we hadn't had his senior head there. I do agree that Dawes isn't a Voss or Judd type leader and I hope Trengove, Viney, Tyson and Watts step up to assume those kinds of roles in the future, but Dawes will always be that stalwart through thick times and thin.

I'm not really convinced that Dawes did much more than get behind Neeld and put emphasis back on the playing group. Admirable yes, but really what did he do to actually help improve things?

Admittedly It's hard looking in from the outer, I'm sure he's well respected but arguably the newer and younger players who toiled week in week out showed just as much. It's semantics I guess. Either way, I think he's a good player to have at the club and hopefully makes an impact in 2014.

 

[Devastating Boris]

Wow, I just had a crack at this and it was tough. I'm sure I have left someone out so allow for that

Terlich, McDonald, garland
Grimes, Frawley, Dunn
Watts, viney, cross
Trengove, Dawes, Howe
Byrnes, Clark, hogan
Jamar, Vince, N Jones


Toumpas, gawn, Tyson
Michie

 

[The Professor]

Wow, I just had a crack at this and it was tough. I'm sure I have left someone out so allow for that

Terlich, McDonald, garland
Grimes, Frawley, Dunn
Watts, viney, cross
Trengove, Dawes, Howe
Byrnes, Clark, hogan
Jamar, Vince, N Jones


Toumpas, gawn, Tyson
Michie

I too have Jamar and Gawn in a earlier best 22 but with interchange restrictions and an already tall foward line, a spot on the bench specifically for a ruck is a waste. (Jamar not training too)

Gawn-Jamar-Spencer are first rucks and I don't think can play together. esp with Clark, Dawes, Hogan fit.

Second ruck will have to go to Clark, Fitz, Watts? (Depending on matchups).

 

[Topkent]

I too have Jamar and Gawn in a earlier best 22 but with interchange restrictions and an already tall foward line, a spot on the bench specifically for a ruck is a waste. (Jamar not training too)

Gawn-Jamar-Spencer are first rucks and I don't think can play together. esp with Clark, Dawes, Hogan fit.

Second ruck will have to go to Clark, Fitz, Watts? (Depending on matchups).

In my opinion Clark will be asked to second ruck , after all that's been his best position to date

Trying to 'save' him by not playing him there is a waste of time , if he's to fragile to ruck for 5 mins a qtr then he is to fragile to play afl long term anyway and we should just give up on him

 

[SuburbanMe]

In my opinion Clark will be asked to second ruck , after all that's been his best position to date

Trying to 'save' him by not playing him there is a waste of time , if he's to fragile to ruck for 5 mins a qtr then he is to fragile to play afl long term anyway and we should just give up on him

I see your point, but I reckon if he's gonna do anything it'll be rucking when the ball comes forward. And if not Mitch - I see that falling to Fitzy or even Gawn (ala when he monstered 2 guys last season in the goal square).

 

[Topkent]

I see your point, but I reckon if he's gonna do anything it'll be rucking when the ball comes forward. And if not Mitch - I see that falling to Fitzy or even Gawn (ala when he monstered 2 guys last season in the goal square).

I think with our tall forward line one of them will have to ruck for a little to rest jamar or Gawn who I don't think will play together if everyone is fully fit

So either
Clark
Dawes
Hogan
Howe
Fitzy

If the top 3 are your starting forwards then it has to be Clark

No way is Gawn an jamar playing together with all the fit forwards

 

[Tulip]

In my opinion Clark will be asked to second ruck , after all that's been his best position to date

Trying to 'save' him by not playing him there is a waste of time , if he's to fragile to ruck for 5 mins a qtr then he is to fragile to play afl long term anyway and we should just give up on him

That's such a typically Melbourne attitude. Playing Clark in the ruck, even for 5 minutes, is stupid this year because he's so down on match fitness and confidence. Did Roughead go straight from ACL back into 2nd ruck? Good clubs manage players injuries, especially one as psychologically damaging as Clark's, and I'd hope he's doing no ruckwork until he's proven himself to be fit enough to play. Why go and aggravate an injury, his foot will heal the more he plays - not straight away.

Dawes is the big elephant in the room here. Neeld decided to pay him $500k a year so naturally we want a player on that coin in the side, but if he doesn't come out firing, it might be Fitzpatrick time again. Dawes can't ruck, and even though he's on ridiculous money (yeah, yeah I hear you - all those intangibles he brings) he needs to be treated on his merits.

I desperately hope that we don't jeopardise Clark's future,especially if it's so we don't have to address the uncomfortable forward line situation.

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

That's such a typically Melbourne attitude. Playing Clark in the ruck, even for 5 minutes, is stupid this year because he's so down on match fitness and confidence. Did Roughead go straight from ACL back into 2nd ruck? Good clubs manage players injuries, especially one as psychologically damaging as Clark's, and I'd hope he's doing no ruckwork until he's proven himself to be fit enough to play. Why go and aggravate an injury, his foot will heal the more he plays - not straight away.

Dawes is the big elephant in the room here. Neeld decided to pay him $500k a year so naturally we want a player on that coin in the side, but if he doesn't come out firing, it might be Fitzpatrick time again. Dawes can't ruck, and even though he's on ridiculous money (yeah, yeah I hear you - all those intangibles he brings) he needs to be treated on his merits.

I desperately hope that we don't jeopardise Clark's future,especially if it's so we don't have to address the uncomfortable forward line situation.

I think there's nothing wrong with Clark taking the forward ruck contests, that gives the no.1 a chop out and has Clark doing no more then he would normally when wrestling a defender.

If Fitzy was on the track this pre-season I'd almost favor him over Dawes.

 

[Dory_77]

I expect that in the first few rounds Fitzy should get a run and can thus play forward/2nd ruck. Clark, Hogan and Dawes are all coming back from injury concerns; and Dawes is useless as a ruck and I doubt the club would risk Hogan there too soon. Playing two of Jamar, Spencer or Gawn would make us too tall/slow so unless Fitzy gets hurt between now and round 1, or is really half-arsed at training I think he'll probably line up at FF come round 1, with Gawn, Spencer or Jamar in the ruck.
I also agree with what SSF says; Clark has to be managed. I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't play round 1 at all after coming back from such a long layoff. Dawes and Hogan are probably in the same boat. Dawes has all his niggles which I think would be better off getting rid of completely, rather than this two weeks on/two weeks off sorta shit that's been happening with him lately. Hogan shouldn't be rushed either.
Just remembered Pedo. Yes he's a whipping boy, but what the heck else is he on the list for then filling in when needed? If he's fit he can play as the 2nd ruck. I know we hate on him plenty here, but as long as he can hold his ground/break even in the ruck he'll have done his job there. Hell, just have him stick his arse in the way of the opposite ruck and let Howe/Watts/Dunn/Whoever go 3rd man up. Problem solved.

 

[WALDENPOND]

Do you guys still see Dunn in your best 22

 

[Devastating Boris]

Do you guys still see Dunn in your best 22

At this point I had him ahead of Clisby but it was a coin toss.

 

[Topkent]

That's such a typically Melbourne attitude. Playing Clark in the ruck, even for 5 minutes, is stupid this year because he's so down on match fitness and confidence. Did Roughead go straight from ACL back into 2nd ruck? Good clubs manage players injuries, especially one as psychologically damaging as Clark's, and I'd hope he's doing no ruckwork until he's proven himself to be fit enough to play. Why go and aggravate an injury, his foot will heal the more he plays - not straight away.

Dawes is the big elephant in the room here. Neeld decided to pay him $500k a year so naturally we want a player on that coin in the side, but if he doesn't come out firing, it might be Fitzpatrick time again. Dawes can't ruck, and even though he's on ridiculous money (yeah, yeah I hear you - all those intangibles he brings) he needs to be treated on his merits.

I desperately hope that we don't jeopardise Clark's future,especially if it's so we don't have to address the uncomfortable forward line situation.

Nah , the typical Melbourne attitude is holding up a bloke who has played less games than cam pederson for melbourne on a pedestal, don't get me wrong Clark's a gun , but with the way footy is now sometime this year he is gonna need to take centre Ruck contests
Not round 1 I agree, but certainly if he can get into round 8-9-10 Injury free then I don't see how rucking is more dangerous for a foot injury than crashing packs

I do agree on Dawes , regardless of his wage a generally slow 3rd tall isn't sustainable and as much as I love the bloke I think fitzy is breathing right down his neck .. And if fitzy comes in he can second ruck as well

 

[Topkent]

That's such a typically Melbourne attitude. Playing Clark in the ruck, even for 5 minutes, is stupid this year because he's so down on match fitness and confidence. Did Roughead go straight from ACL back into 2nd ruck? Good clubs manage players injuries, especially one as psychologically damaging as Clark's, and I'd hope he's doing no ruckwork until he's proven himself to be fit enough to play. Why go and aggravate an injury, his foot will heal the more he plays - not straight away.

Dawes is the big elephant in the room here. Neeld decided to pay him $500k a year so naturally we want a player on that coin in the side, but if he doesn't come out firing, it might be Fitzpatrick time again. Dawes can't ruck, and even though he's on ridiculous money (yeah, yeah I hear you - all those intangibles he brings) he needs to be treated on his merits.

I desperately hope that we don't jeopardise Clark's future,especially if it's so we don't have to address the uncomfortable forward line situation.

Nah , the typical Melbourne attitude is holding up a bloke who has played less games than cam pederson for melbourne on a pedestal, don't get me wrong Clark's a gun , but with the way footy is now sometime this year he is gonna need to take centre Ruck contests
Not round 1 I agree, but certainly if he can get into round 8-9-10 Injury free then I don't see how rucking is more dangerous for a foot injury than crashing packs

I do agree on Dawes , regardless of his wage a generally slow 3rd tall isn't sustainable and as much as I love the bloke I think fitzy is breathing right down his neck .. And if fitzy comes in he can second ruck as well

 

[Tulip]

Not round 1 I agree, but certainly if he can get into round 8-9-10 Injury free then I don't see how rucking is more dangerous for a foot injury than crashing packs

It's not necessarily more dangerous, but the run and jump routine can cause significant wear - hence why a lot of ruckmen tend to go forward more as they age. In the forward line, he can do things at his pace.

 

[Topkent]

It's not necessarily more dangerous, but the run and jump routine can cause significant wear - hence why a lot of ruckmen tend to go forward more as they age. In the forward line, he can do things at his pace.

Are we worried about his foot being a degenerative condition though or is he 'fully' recovered

I'm not saying he should be the number one ruckman mate , just that we shouldn't completely cotton wool him , I think 5 mins a quarter as the main ruckmen is ok

 

[Topkent]

Do you guys still see Dunn in your best 22

That is such a debate on the board right now it's almost a troll

 

[Tulip]

Are we worried about his foot being a degenerative condition though or is he 'fully' recovered

I'm not saying he should be the number one ruckman mate , just that we shouldn't completely cotton wool him , I think 5 mins a quarter as the main ruckmen is ok

AFAIK his foot could heal physically faster than the mental issues that come with the injury go. It was a very serious issue, and probably quite terrifying.

Don't mind some forward line rucking, but I think we should keep him out of the main square.

 

[Tulip]

Do you guys still see Dunn in your best 22

Slots in the BP, for me.

 

[Franky_024]

Do you guys still see Dunn in your best 22

Easily, along with Frawley is one of the best kicks in our defense and feel more relaxed with ball in his hands than someone like Clisby or T. Mac.

Also feel he has the body to take another massive tall forward. Has worked very hard on his body work and rarely gets beaten one on one.

 

[The Professor]

Don't mind some forward line rucking, but I think we should keep him out of the main square.

forward rucking + maybe some around the ground rucking.

Jam/Spe/Gawn to take every centre bounce and play 80% in the ruck while Clark forward rucks and around the grounds for 20%.

Not sure if Jam or Gawn can go 80 though.

If Clark, Hogan and Dawes play together, Clark will have to ruck in some way.

 

[Blackas87]

Easily, along with Frawley is one of the best kicks in our defense and feel more relaxed with ball in his hands than someone like Clisby or T. Mac.

Also feel he has the body to take another massive tall forward. Has worked very hard on his body work and rarely gets beaten one on one.

Best kicks? He might have a big kick on him but he never has any idea who to kick to and usually turns it over.

 

[CTHORANGE]

forward rucking + maybe some around the ground rucking.

Jam/Spe/Gawn to take every centre bounce and play 80% in the ruck while Clark forward rucks and around the grounds for 20%.

Not sure if Jam or Gawn can go 80 though.

If Clark, Hogan and Dawes play together, Clark will have to ruck in some way.

Exactly, and no way is Hogan or Dawes rucking, so Clark it is, but I won't be suprised if Fitz plays ahead of Hogan at times this year, one so as to ease Hogan in and two so as to allow Clark to regain his fitness and confidence before considering using him in the ruck. Who knows Fitzy might even go up the pecking order. I also wonder if we'll rotate Jamar/Gawn/Spenc through the team to manage workloads if they need to do 90% rucking when in the team.

 

[Gysberts2Bate]

Clark no ruck. Clark good. Ruck bad.