Review Round 1, 2021 - Brisbane Lions vs. Sydney

Who were your five best players against Sydney?


  • Total voters
    93
  • Poll closed .

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mebevan

Draftee
Apr 24, 2006
10
12
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
It felt like we were unprepared for this game physically and mentally. This is a worry as being prepared, playing smart and nullifying opposition has been a hallmark of the fagan era. I would say there was a lot of lethargy and casual sloppiness all over the place. Some of the man marking and contested efforts for the inside 50s was so half arsed even from stars like Andrews. Contested possession, forward 50 entries and mentality have to be the big talking points for me.
 

Ralphy2017

All Australian
Jul 16, 2017
602
644
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
A very disappointing match from us on the weekend and one which caused concern for many of us. It is not just that we lost but rather the way we lost. We were miles off the pace of the game, our structures both offensively and defensively were just not competitive and the effort just seemed not to be there.

Over the last couple of year every time we have moved Berry off the ball for long periods we have suffered for it. That was again the case on the weekend. Why? One reason is that he provides a big body but personally I think it is because he is one of the few mids that runs hard defensively. Last year he had Bailey running with him and between the two of them they papered over the cracks. On the weekend our midfield just did not work defensively (or offensively actually) and the Swans were swanning through the middle of the game without pressure above to pick out wide open targets.

Neale padded his stats in the last quarter when the game was gone but was absent of effort or impact the first three quarters. Lyons pretty much the same in the first half and his running generally was very very poor. Zorko actually put in an effort and got a bit of the ball but I would not start him onball at the clearances. I do not mind the frustrated frees he gave away in the last. He actually put in although I his defensive running was not top shelf. McCluggage had a poor game and apart from his 3 goals so did Bailey. Bailey looked great in the preseason but he had very little impact apart from the goals and gave away too many silly frees.

But the mids were not alone. The Swans got quite a lot of forward pressure on our backs. Where were our forwards? Again nowhere. Coleman was pretty much alone in working to actually put some pressure on. Charlie looks bigger and is a much slower and poorer runner and worse player because of it. He did not create separation offensively and put in no defensive effort. Our bigs thought there job was over once we no longer had the ball.

The Swans were severely outsized up forward in this game and our midfield became obsessed with bombing it long. This allowed the Swans to settle into a pattern and neutralise the threat. It was not conditions for overhead marking but we just kept bombing it time and again. None of our forwards got separation and none of our mids lowered their eyes.

The backs were exposed because of the lack of pressure upfield. We have a relatively slow backline and when there is time and space to work in they can be found out. Generally we do not have a good one on one defensive unit. Payne was the newbie but got found out with guys being able to lead into acres of space in front of him. Andrews actually had to do a job and was not able to influence the game as he usually does. Birchall is a liability defensively and his work going forward was ordinary. Ah Chee gave us nothing both offensively and defensively. Starcevich was much the same and a couple of times handed over his man to poor old Payne in bad situations (see the Heeney goal). Rich is better when he can play loose on a nonthreat but he was caught out several times on the weekend.

Oscar was convincingly beaten on the day but his stats were not bad. He just did not have the game that Hickey did. Oscar has games where he just loses his positioning and he learns quickly and makes adjustment. Hopefully he does that. I don't think he is ever going to be a dominant ruck but I do think he can break even.

Quite a few are calling for Sharp to be dropped. Personally I hope he gets another game. He was good in the first quarter but rarely sighted after that. When we went behind I think the focus went onto getting our bigger names into more prominent positions and that did not work very well. One of the huge things to come out of that game was our lack of run. Dropping out best runner seems counterintuitive. The coaching staff just need to use him better and show him what to do. Personally I give him another game this week and get him to shadow Isaac Smith, neutralise him and work him hard the other way when we get the ball. Go head to head and let him learn that way.
Don't entirely agree with everything, but good thoughts and yes there was plenty of room for the deep forward (Reid) to run into, and even McDonald at times when Payne was marking him. Payne will learn from that and put in more body work, to try and impede that, but playing back shoulder on an opponent with similar speed is problematic. Live at the ground he is pretty solid young bloke, and he will learn to get more physical. Because we have such a slow backline, Payne is arguably one of the fastest backs we have (excluding Madden) and any of the new recruits I have not seen.

I might be a bit biased but thought Bailey tried hard and he got us off to a good start. He can be guilty sometimes of taking the game on a little too often, but sure he will work that out, one or two of his penalties I suspect were from fatigue, Fages seemed to be a strong advocate of his efforts on Sat:

Neal was apparently injured with calf tear or strain (I think) in the pre season, and I do recall he did not play in a few of the early match sims.

I can see why Lyons is at his third club, his two way running in the first half was poor, and possesses no speed.

I know distributors need a bit of room, and for those great penetrating kicks to get us going Rich needs a bit of room, but he is also in the defensive unit.
Love to see the young guys get a fair crack, but just think this week maybe Ely instead of young Sharp at Geelong, but can see your point about the match up.
I thought Lester absolutely struggled against Heeney, when playing back shoulder he is ineffective (a lot of backs are) when good ball is being delivered, but because of lack of pace it is more obvious with Lester. He might be a candidate for 23rd man a few times this year. Birch probably survives against Geelong, but Answerth or one of the other young blokes must get a crack soon.
 

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KissKiss

Premiership Player
Nov 26, 2012
4,813
4,131
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
It’s was really noticeable that our three attendees at centre bounces were often much smaller than the opposition.

We were often out bodied and out muscled trying to win the ball. When we did win the ball, it was more through agility and our smaller, nimble players being able to coral a loose ball and have half a step or step on their opponents.

My concern is when Neale and Zorko are both at the centre bounce, and potentially carrying niggles that affect their power, we’re going to lose out to much bigger oppositions.
I get why we want Bailey in the middle for the extra speed and zip, but it just adds to the lack of size problem. Same when we go those late options and throw Charlie or Linc in the middle. We get caught out too small time and time again.

Really want to see more of Berry starting in the middle, and see Ely and Dev get a shot in there too
 

martinson

Premiership Player
Apr 4, 2015
3,541
5,513
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
I get why we want Bailey in the middle for the extra speed and zip, but it just adds to the lack of size problem. Same when we go those late options and throw Charlie or Linc in the middle. We get caught out too small time and time again.

Really want to see more of Berry starting in the middle, and see Ely and Dev get a shot in there too
We recruited CEY if I remember for the task and to protect Neale. To date that's misfired. Berry's been around long enough now to take on that role if we don't upset any other strategies. Dev you'd still have to have high hopes for and how far off it he is we should try to find out . Likewise Ely.

I wouldn't go jumping the gun after one week but we have options there on the chance we start falling apart in 4 or 5.
 

jackess

Hall of Famer
Aug 10, 2005
41,812
37,847
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
This was obvious. Fagan himself said he's not a tactician. He leaves the people around him to make the decisions, while he conveys it to the players. He's an excellent man manager coach, but he needs strong people around him. If he doesn't, then we will only fall back. Noble was a huge loss and now it seems like he might be the brains behind the whole operation.
Daly was the main guy for tactics not Nobes.
 

youneverknow22

Cancelled
Oct 9, 2020
468
711
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Ha ha, because you post utter nonsensical crap I must be Boomer. 😂 No I don’t need the ignore button you offer some good bottom of the barrel perspective.
You do realise Fagan himself said he's not a tactition and he's always the first person to say that his supporting coaching group are the reasons behind a lot of the success we had. So I guess you think Fagan is full of crap? If not, you're literally quoting nothing and you have gone way off topic. You decide which one it is mate. Either way, I'll be the bigger person and stop it here because I would prefer to remain on topic.
 
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jackess

Hall of Famer
Aug 10, 2005
41,812
37,847
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
You do realise Fagan himself said he's not a tactition and he's always the first person to say that his supporting coaching group are the reasons behind a lot of the success we had. So I guess you think Fagan is full of crap? If not, you're literally quoting nothing and you have gone way off topic. You decide which one it is mate. Either way, I'll be the bigger person and stop it here because I would prefer to remain on topic.
And Noble wasn't a tactician either
 

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martinson

Premiership Player
Apr 4, 2015
3,541
5,513
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
You don’t have to be a tactician to sit in the box.
Some of the guys I see sitting in the coaches boxes next to the coach at AFL clubs are no tacticians I can assure you.

I think it was that Hutchinson dude who said Fagan couldn't coach in his first year because his tactics were terrible. Egg ended up on his face.

There isn't a club in the AFL which doesn't have a lot of tactical nous on their coaching panel. Everyone's got tactics . Having the cattle who can carry them out is always the issue . In any business the plans are often great , the implementation is the problem. On Saturday night it wouldn't have mattered what our tactics were our guys just didn't have the energy or 100% desire to do the hard stuff stuff . Simple.
 

X AE A12

universalmagnetic
Jun 13, 2020
844
1,316
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
I know Rayner out was deflating but thinking back these big losses where we fail to arrest at all the opposition dominance in front of key crowds (thinking when groundswell was building and we got smashed by pies), and now game 1 of a promising season. Its a problem. They learnt from getting over emotional against the giants in the final, and they beat Richmond when everything went right, but when things get bad, in a big, key game, their rep needs to improve massively. Its a long season and who knows what the rules will be next year, but this year, we've got huge scope to bring in some developed youngens and play some exciting ball, effort like that is simply unacceptable and i Hope to start seeing some huge selection statements made when they need to.
 

beardancer

Rookie
Oct 16, 2009
41
50
melbourne
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
And Noble wasn't a tactician either
it wasn't tactics that sunk us it was a combination of some really serious problems. Basically that was the performance of a bottom four team......and why would next week or the week after be any different. We've got all the hallmarks of a team on the slide. our older players( zorks, Birch, robbo, Lyons, are rushing headlong into early retirement, our midrange players are solid citizens without being guns, and our younger brigade are a combination of brilliant, flukey, overated and just too young. for me, that's the makeup of a bottom four team that's over-achieved over the last 2 seasons. For the last 2 years they've played with a verve, cohesion and teamwork that belied their actual abilities. Thing is, you could see the rot set in in the Suns match the week before. It reminds me of the 2006 Lions. Sad
 

jackess

Hall of Famer
Aug 10, 2005
41,812
37,847
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
it wasn't tactics that sunk us it was a combination of some really serious problems. Basically that was the performance of a bottom four team......and why would next week or the week after be any different. We've got all the hallmarks of a team on the slide. our older players( zorks, Birch, robbo, Lyons, are rushing headlong into early retirement, our midrange players are solid citizens without being guns, and our younger brigade are a combination of brilliant, flukey, overated and just too young. for me, that's the makeup of a bottom four team that's over-achieved over the last 2 seasons. For the last 2 years they've played with a verve, cohesion and teamwork that belied their actual abilities. Thing is, you could see the rot set in in the Suns match the week before. It reminds me of the 2006 Lions. Sad
😂 this is too funny
 

Zhesty

All Australian
Feb 12, 2008
716
824
Brisbane
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Other Teams
Broncos
Last week's performance came down to one thing and that was attitude. After we kicked those few early goals, we seemed to get ahead of ourselves.

I wouldn't be hitting the panic button yet and I'm looking for a big reversal in attitude this weekend.

The midfield is the one area of our team that is lacking depth and IMO short of one elite player. I do think our midfield unit are more than capable of covering this with their attitude, which they were able to do for most of last season. Attitude drops and we can get exposed.

A couple of team changes won't make much of a difference to the result next week. It'll come down to the collective attitude of the group and I'm backing them rebound well.
 

martinson

Premiership Player
Apr 4, 2015
3,541
5,513
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
it wasn't tactics that sunk us it was a combination of some really serious problems. Basically that was the performance of a bottom four team......and why would next week or the week after be any different. We've got all the hallmarks of a team on the slide. our older players( zorks, Birch, robbo, Lyons, are rushing headlong into early retirement, our midrange players are solid citizens without being guns, and our younger brigade are a combination of brilliant, flukey, overated and just too young. for me, that's the makeup of a bottom four team that's over-achieved over the last 2 seasons. For the last 2 years they've played with a verve, cohesion and teamwork that belied their actual abilities. Thing is, you could see the rot set in in the Suns match the week before. It reminds me of the 2006 Lions. Sad
If you look at our age profile we have to be a team on the up unless you think most of our younger players will never amount to much.

Never seen such an emotional reaction to one game.

Or maybe some of these people just resented us building a decent team and culture in the first place.
 

martinson

Premiership Player
Apr 4, 2015
3,541
5,513
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
nah, seriously comrade, we were terrible and good teams don't do terrible. We've played with great spirit for 2 years but it looked like the spirit and sense of team just evaporated in the last couple of weeks. That defeat was way more consequential than you seem to think
'Good teams don't do terrible'

Are you joking. Seen hundreds of terrible performance by good teams over the years . And great teams as well.
 

briztoon

Wannabe Draft Nuffie
Nov 28, 2015
14,197
14,524
Brisbane
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Other Teams
NUFC, Philadelphia 76'ers
Wasn't noble in the coaches box in the first couple of seasons? I swear, I remember him being there with Fagan a lot of the times.
Yes he was.

Just as Fagan used to do the same at Hawthorn, sitting next to Alistair Clarkson, when Fagan was Head of Football at Hawthorn.

Part of the job. Be a sounding board for the coach, but also assess the coaches performance.

Head of Football is after all, the boss of the coach.
 

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