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Don't entirely agree with everything, but good thoughts and yes there was plenty of room for the deep forward (Reid) to run into, and even McDonald at times when Payne was marking him. Payne will learn from that and put in more body work, to try and impede that, but playing back shoulder on an opponent with similar speed is problematic. Live at the ground he is pretty solid young bloke, and he will learn to get more physical. Because we have such a slow backline, Payne is arguably one of the fastest backs we have (excluding Madden) and any of the new recruits I have not seen.A very disappointing match from us on the weekend and one which caused concern for many of us. It is not just that we lost but rather the way we lost. We were miles off the pace of the game, our structures both offensively and defensively were just not competitive and the effort just seemed not to be there.
Over the last couple of year every time we have moved Berry off the ball for long periods we have suffered for it. That was again the case on the weekend. Why? One reason is that he provides a big body but personally I think it is because he is one of the few mids that runs hard defensively. Last year he had Bailey running with him and between the two of them they papered over the cracks. On the weekend our midfield just did not work defensively (or offensively actually) and the Swans were swanning through the middle of the game without pressure above to pick out wide open targets.
Neale padded his stats in the last quarter when the game was gone but was absent of effort or impact the first three quarters. Lyons pretty much the same in the first half and his running generally was very very poor. Zorko actually put in an effort and got a bit of the ball but I would not start him onball at the clearances. I do not mind the frustrated frees he gave away in the last. He actually put in although I his defensive running was not top shelf. McCluggage had a poor game and apart from his 3 goals so did Bailey. Bailey looked great in the preseason but he had very little impact apart from the goals and gave away too many silly frees.
But the mids were not alone. The Swans got quite a lot of forward pressure on our backs. Where were our forwards? Again nowhere. Coleman was pretty much alone in working to actually put some pressure on. Charlie looks bigger and is a much slower and poorer runner and worse player because of it. He did not create separation offensively and put in no defensive effort. Our bigs thought there job was over once we no longer had the ball.
The Swans were severely outsized up forward in this game and our midfield became obsessed with bombing it long. This allowed the Swans to settle into a pattern and neutralise the threat. It was not conditions for overhead marking but we just kept bombing it time and again. None of our forwards got separation and none of our mids lowered their eyes.
The backs were exposed because of the lack of pressure upfield. We have a relatively slow backline and when there is time and space to work in they can be found out. Generally we do not have a good one on one defensive unit. Payne was the newbie but got found out with guys being able to lead into acres of space in front of him. Andrews actually had to do a job and was not able to influence the game as he usually does. Birchall is a liability defensively and his work going forward was ordinary. Ah Chee gave us nothing both offensively and defensively. Starcevich was much the same and a couple of times handed over his man to poor old Payne in bad situations (see the Heeney goal). Rich is better when he can play loose on a nonthreat but he was caught out several times on the weekend.
Oscar was convincingly beaten on the day but his stats were not bad. He just did not have the game that Hickey did. Oscar has games where he just loses his positioning and he learns quickly and makes adjustment. Hopefully he does that. I don't think he is ever going to be a dominant ruck but I do think he can break even.
Quite a few are calling for Sharp to be dropped. Personally I hope he gets another game. He was good in the first quarter but rarely sighted after that. When we went behind I think the focus went onto getting our bigger names into more prominent positions and that did not work very well. One of the huge things to come out of that game was our lack of run. Dropping out best runner seems counterintuitive. The coaching staff just need to use him better and show him what to do. Personally I give him another game this week and get him to shadow Isaac Smith, neutralise him and work him hard the other way when we get the ball. Go head to head and let him learn that way.
I get why we want Bailey in the middle for the extra speed and zip, but it just adds to the lack of size problem. Same when we go those late options and throw Charlie or Linc in the middle. We get caught out too small time and time again.It’s was really noticeable that our three attendees at centre bounces were often much smaller than the opposition.
We were often out bodied and out muscled trying to win the ball. When we did win the ball, it was more through agility and our smaller, nimble players being able to coral a loose ball and have half a step or step on their opponents.
My concern is when Neale and Zorko are both at the centre bounce, and potentially carrying niggles that affect their power, we’re going to lose out to much bigger oppositions.
We recruited CEY if I remember for the task and to protect Neale. To date that's misfired. Berry's been around long enough now to take on that role if we don't upset any other strategies. Dev you'd still have to have high hopes for and how far off it he is we should try to find out . Likewise Ely.I get why we want Bailey in the middle for the extra speed and zip, but it just adds to the lack of size problem. Same when we go those late options and throw Charlie or Linc in the middle. We get caught out too small time and time again.
Really want to see more of Berry starting in the middle, and see Ely and Dev get a shot in there too
The actual problem is your not melting, your posts are always over the top rubbish.Trust me, i'm not melting. I won $500 last night betting against the lions. I'm stating what I saw, and if you don't like it, then so be it.
This was obvious. Fagan himself said he's not a tactician. He leaves the people around him to make the decisions, while he conveys it to the players. He's an excellent man manager coach, but he needs strong people around him. If he doesn't, then we will only fall back. Noble was a huge loss and now it seems like he might be the brains behind the whole operation.
I literally don't care. Find the ignore button and move on.The actual problem is your not melting, your posts are always over the top rubbish.
Ha ha, because you post utter nonsensical crap I must be Boomer. No I don’t need the ignore button you offer some good bottom of the barrel perspective.I literally don't care. Find the ignore button and move on.
You do realise Fagan himself said he's not a tactition and he's always the first person to say that his supporting coaching group are the reasons behind a lot of the success we had. So I guess you think Fagan is full of crap? If not, you're literally quoting nothing and you have gone way off topic. You decide which one it is mate. Either way, I'll be the bigger person and stop it here because I would prefer to remain on topic.Ha ha, because you post utter nonsensical crap I must be Boomer. No I don’t need the ignore button you offer some good bottom of the barrel perspective.
You do realise Fagan himself said he's not a tactition and he's always the first person to say that his supporting coaching group are the reasons behind a lot of the success we had. So I guess you think Fagan is full of crap? If not, you're literally quoting nothing and you have gone way off topic. You decide which one it is mate. Either way, I'll be the bigger person and stop it here because I would prefer to remain on topic.
Wasn't noble in the coaches box in the first couple of seasons? I swear, I remember him being there with Fagan a lot of the times.And Noble wasn't a tactician either
You don’t have to be a tactician to sit in the box.Wasn't noble in the coaches box in the first couple of seasons? I swear, I remember him being there with Fagan a lot of the times.
Some of the guys I see sitting in the coaches boxes next to the coach at AFL clubs are no tacticians I can assure you.You don’t have to be a tactician to sit in the box.
Wasn't noble in the coaches box in the first couple of seasons? I swear, I remember him being there with Fagan a lot of the times.
it wasn't tactics that sunk us it was a combination of some really serious problems. Basically that was the performance of a bottom four team......and why would next week or the week after be any different. We've got all the hallmarks of a team on the slide. our older players( zorks, Birch, robbo, Lyons, are rushing headlong into early retirement, our midrange players are solid citizens without being guns, and our younger brigade are a combination of brilliant, flukey, overated and just too young. for me, that's the makeup of a bottom four team that's over-achieved over the last 2 seasons. For the last 2 years they've played with a verve, cohesion and teamwork that belied their actual abilities. Thing is, you could see the rot set in in the Suns match the week before. It reminds me of the 2006 Lions. SadAnd Noble wasn't a tactician either
it wasn't tactics that sunk us it was a combination of some really serious problems. Basically that was the performance of a bottom four team......and why would next week or the week after be any different. We've got all the hallmarks of a team on the slide. our older players( zorks, Birch, robbo, Lyons, are rushing headlong into early retirement, our midrange players are solid citizens without being guns, and our younger brigade are a combination of brilliant, flukey, overated and just too young. for me, that's the makeup of a bottom four team that's over-achieved over the last 2 seasons. For the last 2 years they've played with a verve, cohesion and teamwork that belied their actual abilities. Thing is, you could see the rot set in in the Suns match the week before. It reminds me of the 2006 Lions. Sad
nah, seriously comrade, we were terrible and good teams don't do terrible. We've played with great spirit for 2 years but it looked like the spirit and sense of team just evaporated in the last couple of weeks. That defeat was way more consequential than you seem to thinkthis is too funny
If you look at our age profile we have to be a team on the up unless you think most of our younger players will never amount to much.it wasn't tactics that sunk us it was a combination of some really serious problems. Basically that was the performance of a bottom four team......and why would next week or the week after be any different. We've got all the hallmarks of a team on the slide. our older players( zorks, Birch, robbo, Lyons, are rushing headlong into early retirement, our midrange players are solid citizens without being guns, and our younger brigade are a combination of brilliant, flukey, overated and just too young. for me, that's the makeup of a bottom four team that's over-achieved over the last 2 seasons. For the last 2 years they've played with a verve, cohesion and teamwork that belied their actual abilities. Thing is, you could see the rot set in in the Suns match the week before. It reminds me of the 2006 Lions. Sad
'Good teams don't do terrible'nah, seriously comrade, we were terrible and good teams don't do terrible. We've played with great spirit for 2 years but it looked like the spirit and sense of team just evaporated in the last couple of weeks. That defeat was way more consequential than you seem to think
Yes he was.Wasn't noble in the coaches box in the first couple of seasons? I swear, I remember him being there with Fagan a lot of the times.