Sorry i was talking about goal kicking costing us the first game. i must have went on a wrong tangent.
Review Round 1, 2024 - Fremantle vs. Brisbane Lions
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Fwiiw , just to me , this feels a bit different to any time we've been smacked in the last 5 years.
I've never been worried before about us coming back or our 'era' coming to an end. Always optimistic about what we had.
Also hearing a lot that it's only 2 games ,we've always come back ,late start to the year etc and all of that's true.
What has me a little disconcerted this time is Kiddy going down was a massive blow , players who have been here 4-6 years are now at the stage where if they don't start producing what we envisaged they never will , Oscar's deficiencies are pretty much exposing our M/F and he has been pivotal and we've gotten away with it in the past.
But particularly I've seen a couple of teams take a leaf out of the Collingwood playbook and extrapolate it with younger, faster players and produce some scarily good footy. Something difficult to combat with our gameplan and personnel.
So it's in our court . We still have some great players and to date shown great resilience in staying in the race every year.
The Collingwood game will tell us more. We'll be rested up on our home deck against an opposition that isn't going that hot itself. I'm expecting a Lions team that will be flat out doing everything to not cough up a run of goals in this match.
I've never been worried before about us coming back or our 'era' coming to an end. Always optimistic about what we had.
Also hearing a lot that it's only 2 games ,we've always come back ,late start to the year etc and all of that's true.
What has me a little disconcerted this time is Kiddy going down was a massive blow , players who have been here 4-6 years are now at the stage where if they don't start producing what we envisaged they never will , Oscar's deficiencies are pretty much exposing our M/F and he has been pivotal and we've gotten away with it in the past.
But particularly I've seen a couple of teams take a leaf out of the Collingwood playbook and extrapolate it with younger, faster players and produce some scarily good footy. Something difficult to combat with our gameplan and personnel.
So it's in our court . We still have some great players and to date shown great resilience in staying in the race every year.
The Collingwood game will tell us more. We'll be rested up on our home deck against an opposition that isn't going that hot itself. I'm expecting a Lions team that will be flat out doing everything to not cough up a run of goals in this match.
Yeah, bollocks, we have brilliance in abundance. Charlie, joe, Clugga, linc, rat, etc all brilliant players......what we lack is hardened tough footballers that do the work, not the flashy s**t that people on here love but the week to week grind that makes a good team great.
basically, we're flakey AF. flat track bullies.
I don't think it matters who we play, if you watch/play football you can see our problems no matter who we play. We have a strange balance of players at our club. We have the flakey brilliants....ie Joe, Charlie, Rayner, Rat, clug etc. We also have the grunts.....the guys that carry the brilliants. Dunks, Neale(also brilliant), Andrews, Lester etc.
Then we've got the not up to its.....Oscar, Starcevich, Lohmann etc.
I say trade the s**t out of this team. Bailly....gorn. Rayner.....Gorn. Joe.....well you know what I'd do!!!!! Zorks retired, Oscar....trade. Lohmann ....delist. Starcevich.....10 games in the VFL, or delist.
Fagan......hmmmmm!!!
I was thinking that from early on . He was starting to out position and take high marks against his opponent , something we haven't seen for quite a while.
On the quiet
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3KZ have you viewed the replay, especially the 3rd Q? I think Lester allowed or was involved in three of Freo's goals in the 3rd Q.
Stays on the ground and does not compete in the air for Freo's first goal in the 3rd Q.
The room Amiss was afforded and ran into an open goal out the back of Lester.
Out-marked 1 v 1 against Treacy under the post in that 3rd Q.
Lester was forced into a KPD role, something he is not suited to and arguably hasn't played too often since Riewoldt kicked 6 on him (actually 5, as one was not his fault).
IMO There are a few players out of form, Lester is not one, but he is not a KPD or that critical to our structure, he is a handy role player doing his job, on the 4th, 5th opposition forward, but IF we lose a few more games, than playing a 31/32 year old, and some others at the expense of the kids would be detrimental, and I would then have to be critical of Fages. Hopefully we are not in that position, and as with other slow starts, I am still optimistic, but the caveat is the loss of Kiddy. I think we have to give Zorks the position.
I posted earlier in the year Cam is a third tall forward (no matter how fit he looks in preseason), with short stints in the midfield, two games in and have not seen anything to suggest otherwise.
I said about a month ago Neale, Berry and Payne had interrupted preseasons, and with the preseason shorter this year, they may take a couple of games to find form.
After an ACL, some supporters may be expecting too much from Tom, in the first few games, although in Fages presser he hinted he would be picked against Collingwood.
Stays on the ground and does not compete in the air for Freo's first goal in the 3rd Q.
The room Amiss was afforded and ran into an open goal out the back of Lester.
Out-marked 1 v 1 against Treacy under the post in that 3rd Q.
Lester was forced into a KPD role, something he is not suited to and arguably hasn't played too often since Riewoldt kicked 6 on him (actually 5, as one was not his fault).
IMO There are a few players out of form, Lester is not one, but he is not a KPD or that critical to our structure, he is a handy role player doing his job, on the 4th, 5th opposition forward, but IF we lose a few more games, than playing a 31/32 year old, and some others at the expense of the kids would be detrimental, and I would then have to be critical of Fages. Hopefully we are not in that position, and as with other slow starts, I am still optimistic, but the caveat is the loss of Kiddy. I think we have to give Zorks the position.
I posted earlier in the year Cam is a third tall forward (no matter how fit he looks in preseason), with short stints in the midfield, two games in and have not seen anything to suggest otherwise.
I said about a month ago Neale, Berry and Payne had interrupted preseasons, and with the preseason shorter this year, they may take a couple of games to find form.
After an ACL, some supporters may be expecting too much from Tom, in the first few games, although in Fages presser he hinted he would be picked against Collingwood.
I've just read all the game day thread and have caught up here as well. I didn't watch the game to protect the dodgy ticker. Looks like the right decision after reading all the angst on here. (Once again thank you all for the very kind thoughts. Home now, feeling much better. Gotta give up the durries, after 42yrs won't be easy but necessary).
I think we wasted the preseason, as short and limiting as it was. We wasted time experimenting again, Rayner down back last year, Gardiner 4wd, Berry back this year. Wasted time trying to improve the failed tactic of protecting red time, knowing it doesn't work. I feel that knowing it was a short preseason we should have spent the majority of training on fitness and taking the game on for 4qtrs. That was the improvement needed, not trying to be too smart for our own good. The saying that doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result is the definition of insanity. Well, I think we're officially nuts.
Having underdone players (Neale, Berry, Dev, Payne, McKenna) hasn't helped, getting injuries new (Kiddy and now Gardiner) and recurring (Neale and McKenna) compounds everything. We're just not right physically, we're not right tactically, we're not right mentally. And that's on everyone's shoulders, players and coaches.
How do we turn this around, and can it be done quickly? I don't know and I don't think so. It's going to take time to get players fit and in form, and then we need that fitness to change tactically, then results are needed to change mentally.
This squad got us to a GF. I can't believe they've become hacks in the space of a preseason. The talent IS there, we saw that last season. This season we've started games so well in the first qtr. We've been quick and accurate, hard at the ball. Second qtrs we've missed goals that would have put the game to rest. Those misses invited the opposition into the game, we then try to be cute, slow it down etc, probably get a bit selfish, lose momentum and continue to be cute thinking that will get momentum back. It won't, hard work and attitude will.
It's going to be hard to make wholesale changes. The ressies haven't started so there's no real form lines to evaluate. I'm even hesitant to bring Doedee straight in v Pies, God I'd hate to bring him in untried to see him injured as well. I would be playing a lot of the firsts in the ressies first game over the bye. Big O, Berry, Dev, Payne if fit, Charlie, Doedee to get a run, the list could go on. They don't need to rest, they need to get hard and match fit. Definitely time for some tough love tho.
Still early enough in the season to take steps fwd. I do think that even if we lose a string of games now but finish the season on a strong run, with players back and fit, willing to take the game on tactically, even if we finish in the bottom 4 of the finals, I think we can feature in the GF.
I think we wasted the preseason, as short and limiting as it was. We wasted time experimenting again, Rayner down back last year, Gardiner 4wd, Berry back this year. Wasted time trying to improve the failed tactic of protecting red time, knowing it doesn't work. I feel that knowing it was a short preseason we should have spent the majority of training on fitness and taking the game on for 4qtrs. That was the improvement needed, not trying to be too smart for our own good. The saying that doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result is the definition of insanity. Well, I think we're officially nuts.
Having underdone players (Neale, Berry, Dev, Payne, McKenna) hasn't helped, getting injuries new (Kiddy and now Gardiner) and recurring (Neale and McKenna) compounds everything. We're just not right physically, we're not right tactically, we're not right mentally. And that's on everyone's shoulders, players and coaches.
How do we turn this around, and can it be done quickly? I don't know and I don't think so. It's going to take time to get players fit and in form, and then we need that fitness to change tactically, then results are needed to change mentally.
This squad got us to a GF. I can't believe they've become hacks in the space of a preseason. The talent IS there, we saw that last season. This season we've started games so well in the first qtr. We've been quick and accurate, hard at the ball. Second qtrs we've missed goals that would have put the game to rest. Those misses invited the opposition into the game, we then try to be cute, slow it down etc, probably get a bit selfish, lose momentum and continue to be cute thinking that will get momentum back. It won't, hard work and attitude will.
It's going to be hard to make wholesale changes. The ressies haven't started so there's no real form lines to evaluate. I'm even hesitant to bring Doedee straight in v Pies, God I'd hate to bring him in untried to see him injured as well. I would be playing a lot of the firsts in the ressies first game over the bye. Big O, Berry, Dev, Payne if fit, Charlie, Doedee to get a run, the list could go on. They don't need to rest, they need to get hard and match fit. Definitely time for some tough love tho.
Still early enough in the season to take steps fwd. I do think that even if we lose a string of games now but finish the season on a strong run, with players back and fit, willing to take the game on tactically, even if we finish in the bottom 4 of the finals, I think we can feature in the GF.
I like hearing that.
McIvor
Premiership Player
Racks up the 100 game milestone against the Pies.
On the quiet
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some good rationale, and yes it is a long season so hopefully we can build into it, even 0-3 (if it happens, not impossible for top 4) I think the rationale with Dizzy going forward was to cover a perceived weakness (although Cam should play 3rd tall), and the early 2023 season form of Payne (before injury) and the acquisition of Doedee likely meant Dizzy was not getting a permanent back spot in 2024. I think some flexibility is good and the Swans coach mentioned this in his presser last Friday.
Food is going to taste so much better for you when you give away those durries
Just read Fages saying " we'll give the boys a rest, probably get back into it Thursday", should be back into it today, stop molly coddling these men. They've gotta earn a rest. It's making them soft, it's rewarding poor performance. Ffs Fages stop being their friend, start being their coach. And have a good look at yourself in the mirror too. You've gotta be better as well, gotta take it on.
Agree with all of this and now to me is the time something that’s been missing, whatever it is gets found or before you know it the season is gone and rebuild sets in.
Nothing up to now suggests Fagan will make drastic changes and certainly not to the protected players. Yet we have started so badly, there is no excuse to hide behind now.
The game is passing our style by but we can still use that style as a chance up if we make the right changes to at least keep us up with the new game plan - speed everywhere.
We have the players on the list but never give them a shot and look, maybe for good reason but do we have to lose by giving a Smith / Sharp / Ryan / Tunstill / Reville 5 games to show what they’ve got?
They don’t all have to be at the same time either, you can stagger it and who knows, what emerges might be the new benchmark.
But the glaringly stagnated players need to be dropped to earn their spot back and if they do, then they will no longer be passengers.
I always felt a fit Dizzy could and would compete for Paynes spot with Doedee's arrival. Both are injury and form prone, and i felt that both would be used over the season in the 2nd tall defender role. Operating as a unit.
That's an upside to giving the smokes away for sure. Apart from the obvious health benefit as well. Be good for the bank balance too. But mate I just love it. Love the flavour, love feeling that smoke curl down the throat, love the long slow exhale, love that the nicotine can relax or stimulate upon need. Tobacco is even my fav fragrance note. That morning cigarette with a nice strong cappuccino, heaven. It's going to be tough.
I did try Champix years ago to give up, I did cut back to 3 a day because of it, but gradually fell back. That Champix did give me the most vivid, realistic dreams/nightmares I've ever had. That was wild. Some of the dreams were even serialised, like a TV show, a different episode each night. Being chased thru different dimensions by vampire bikies, or a quest to find a cure to a spell that turned people into animals that represented their sins. Gluttony as pigs, sloth obviously sloths, adulterers dogs, etc. My soul flying thru the air as my body would move thru the earth when travelling distances. Combining upon arrival at the destination. Big hot Amazon women that would suck the bones and meat out a body leaving a skin bag lying on the floor. Wild.
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'24 could be our version of the Cats '06. Not all premierships are a linear progression. In '06 the Cats drafted Selwood. We will draft L. Ashcroft
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Go on...
Well at least you’re not overreacting…
Agree, my brother and I stole some of dad's cigarettes when I was around 12 years old and snuck off to a nearby culvert drain and indulged. Unbeknown to us dad followed us there and caught us mid smoke, took us home made us smoke a full cigarette properly with full drawbacks, disgusting, he then proceeded to give us a hell of a flogging, neither my brother or I have ever smoked again.
Gave up drinking alcohol in 1997, had 1 stubby in the next 15 years, now I have a very occasional drink, a handful of times in the last decade, last one was a Stout on GF eve in Melbourne last year at San Telmo.
I wonder how much can be put into our reduced pre-season.
We had a month less time between seasons compared to 2022/23.
Colllingwood are in the same boat.
It’s expected that the GF teams have a reduced pre-season, but the AFL opening-round concept compressed this further.
GWS would be the contrasting opinion - but they didn’t go through competing in a GF.
I hope i’m right and our season proper starts 28 March.
We had a month less time between seasons compared to 2022/23.
Colllingwood are in the same boat.
It’s expected that the GF teams have a reduced pre-season, but the AFL opening-round concept compressed this further.
GWS would be the contrasting opinion - but they didn’t go through competing in a GF.
I hope i’m right and our season proper starts 28 March.
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Very much X rated, sexually explicit with violence and gore, as ratings often describe. Some of our younger members could find it disturbing, lol.
Lion_LegacyXL
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A break after only 2 games?
To over simplify it we just seem a bit stale to me.
Doedee will be a nice addition.
Crying out for ashcroft to be back.
But we need some changes before then to get wins.
Zorko back is so logical- gives us something different for the oppo to react to because just trying to replace kiddy with like for like is impossible. Fagan really missed a trick there.
I also think it has to be time to say zero more minutes for JL and zorko on the ball. They are not the players they were and others need to grow in those roles.
We're showing all the symptoms of staleness.
Good players not putting in their usual effort.
Confused about the gameplan or not deeply committed to it when the opposition gets a run on.
It happens often enough to teams that have had a lot of success. As yet we're not really one of them history will show.
So we really need to turn it around.
They’re already looking tired. Add to that 2 cross-country flights and a flogging. A couple of days to freshen up won’t hurt… giving them a flogging might. They can then come back and focus on the issues, work on some things with a fresh mind over the weekend and into next week.
The coaching team can spend the days the players have off doing some proper analysis (or both the players and themselves), and come up with a plan for how to fix the issues.
