Autopsy Round 1, 2025: Positives and Negatives vs Gold Coast

[Yeahnahmate]

Here’s some of what Hawthorn copped in the first seven rounds of last year to start the season 1-6:



By round 11 they were beating Brisbane. I’m by no means saying we will rebound so stunningly this year but there’s definitely hope we can tighten things up and resemble a competitive young side by the end of the year. I still expect overall improvement on last year

 

[WeaponX]

I am starting to think some dark voodoo curse got placed on us around the time we recruited Kelly, probably some twisted Geelong supporter got his mad up and conjured up a sick plan to hurt us. Don't really think that but it sure as hell looks like it, we are so bad right now and I was hoping we bottomed out last year but its looking like it definitely wasn't the coach.

 

[FKASC]

Here’s some of what Hawthorn copped in the first seven rounds of last year to start the season 1-6:

View attachment 2253202View attachment 2253203View attachment 2253204

By round 11 they were beating Brisbane. I’m by no means saying we will rebound so stunningly this year but there’s definitely hope we can tighten things up and resemble a competitive young side by the end of the year. I still expect overall improvement on last year

The problem with this argument is that Hawthorn had also gutted their list a year prior so were largely full of kids and recent acquisitions, alongside the new coach.

I guess we have a few new acquisitions and kids but we still have a significant OG senior core compared with Hawthorn last year

 

[FKASC]

it’s been systemic for years – an indictment upon those who were previously in charge

View attachment 2253199​

Not disagreeing that our midfield has been neglected, but in 2021 our midfield was largely the same as the one that had won a premiership only 3 years prior.

So this problem isn’t just about how we have recruited in the last few years. Why did the midfield suddenly stop functioning after 2019?

All of this suggests to me that the only way forward is to gut the squad

 

[SakeSipper]

We just traded Barrass for close to the Hawks entire original 2025 draft hand.

20 20 hindsight saying we should have gutted the list like Richmond just did.

Positive there is they just rolled the Blues who were flag contenders.

So when does attitude of players become a factor?

I will say I am somewhat concerned about how Harley carried himself yesterday. He looked unfit and not interested. He wasted more energy mouthing off to opponents and pushing and shoving that actually playing football. He looked like he was cruising and in self preservation mode. Nothing like how he played last year.

In pre-season photos, he looked well-below elite AFL fitness levels. Needs to re-focus on football, agreed. I think he’s Vic-bound, too.

 

[Yeahnahmate]

The problem with this argument is that Hawthorn had also gutted their list a year prior so were largely full of kids and recent acquisitions, alongside the new coach.

I guess we have a few new acquisitions and kids but we still have a significant OG senior core compared with Hawthorn last year

I’m not predicting a dead cat bounce, just pointing out that although the Rd1 loss was horrible, it’s not to say a young list can’t start to grow together quite quickly. And we do have a heap of youth now.

Re Hawthorn’s avg age last year and ours this year in comparison:

 

[BeornJ]

One positive I noticed is on the rare occasions the ball enter our f50, you could see the press locking the ball in. There were some really impressive front half turnovers.

Gold Coast have a brilliant midfield that obviously had a great day so the lack of ball in our forward half made it tough to see.

 

[DanWCE]

I am starting to think some dark voodoo curse got placed on us around the time we recruited Kelly, probably some twisted Geelong supporter got his mad up and conjured up a sick plan to hurt us. Don't really think that but it sure as hell looks like it, we are so bad right now and I was hoping we bottomed out last year but its looking like it definitely wasn't the coach.

He was largely unproven but burst on the scene propped up by an enviable midfield. We moved heaven and earth to get him and his family home, with a pay packet that might have put some noses out of joint.

COVID hit and he was in the thick of conversations around those who would or would not insist on packing up their family to relocate with them in the hub. Perhaps this was not viewed as team first. By now he was aligned with JD and Gaff as his closest pals, and that wasn't a time JD covered himself in glory either.

Fractures appeared within the playing group and infighting commenced after being forced to spend too much time together.

Injuries took hold and TK was forced to be the tractor, not the Rolls Royce. The responsibility lay at his feet to play in a way that didn't reflect his meteoric rise at Geelong. Equally the players may have become disgruntled at the cost benefit of having TK within the ranks, but that is on the club more than it is on him. Most of us were bullish of how formidable the centre bounce combination could have been, before being largely robbed of ever seeing it.

With his closest allies now retired or moved to different clubs TK seems to have lost any enjoyment of being at work or playing footy and is simply fulfilling his obligations. The playing group has quickly transitioned from Dads with kids to just kids. There's an eye on the future and TK the star, not a known leader suited to grooming the yoof and paving the way, is not being put up in lights because we have shiny new toy HR9.

 

[Ambrose Burnside]

The curse kicked in after Simmo prayed to the footy gods when we were 5 goals down in the 2018 Grand Final.

Worth it.

 

[ToastieBoy18]

I haven't looked through this thread as I am still coming to terms with what happened on Sunday.

However as always, I am glass half full, and looking at things we can tighten up.

Clearly, we were smashed in the midfield. Getting players in who are willing to get their hands dirty + work hard back to support is a priority. Hall, Gross are the obvious two that could help in this area. Too many times, we have 3 mids, swarm to to the loose ball out of stoppage, instead of having a balance. This means, when they all trail, and GC win the ball, they have free players everywhere, meaning they can walk the ball out of the front of stoppage, giving our backs next to no chance of stopping the entry.

A negative which could be looked at as a positive, was there was at least 3 clear opportunities where we were rebounding off half back, moved the ball well and should have finished with a goal, but the last kick/connection, meant it was a turnover.
Hewett, missing from point blank + Dewar and Brockman both missing that final kick to a leading forward. If that can be rectified, then we can add 3 goals + the confidence we gained from moving the ball nicely, then things can start to turn.

All 3 players mentioned are highly skilled and 9/10 would have executed said skill. Given that Gold Coast pressure was elite, and all 3 are trying to get the tempo of AFL footy, we can hope that they tidy this part of the game up.

Also, I love that Dewar was given the responsibility to take the kick-ins, and hope that in time can have more confidence to be aggressive, instead of kicking long to a contest every time.

 

[Eaglemaniac]

It’s been the midfield for a very long time. Many have pointed this out over and over again, and that’s why many are disappointed when we give away top draft picks in good drafts which should have been used on top line midfield talent.

I couldn’t give two shits if they think a player is a flight risk, you take the best midfielder available and back your club to be such a good place to be that they want to stick around. If not, then you take the high draft picks in return that you get for that top young talent after 3 years if they want to go, which is probably what’s going to happen with Harley.

I think Baker and Graham were awesome on the weekend, because they absolutely busted their gut to make a difference out there, so don’t get me wrong, I know what good senior players can do for a side, but they will be gone soon and we will be left without young midfielders that we really need.

In my opinion, our club and Simmo let this happen because they kept playing senior players who were out of form, not making an effort, and just not up to AFL standard for too long. When you are in a rebuild, you play the young guys and the mature age draftees that you’ve picked up in their natural positions as much as possible, to see if they can cut it or not. It shouldn’t matter about wins and losses because right now we’re still in the same position.

We have a malaise in our club that is just coasting, and they do not care because they get paid every week whether they’re good or bad.

If Mini wants to fix this, he needs to drop Kelly and Harley and any of these other guys that aren’t putting their best efforts in every week, and reward the young guys that are playing well in the WAFL when it starts and performing on the training track.

I don’t care if we get beaten by a bit if we’re playing young guys who are learning. Hawthorn showed in the last couple of years that it works to play the young guys together with a couple of senior players who bust their gut for the side. Now they are looking like they’re going to make finals and be a threat.
In the meantime, we’ve been playing senior players because “you can’t go too far the other way”, and we are still in the same shitty position.

Fix the midfield by bringing in young talent via the draft and the best that is available in the state leagues that are performing against men already, and we will go along way to sorting out our problems.

 

[Hook461123]

I built up some cautious optimism over the pre season, hoping that we had turned the corner and we were going to see some new enthusiasm and game plan. But it was a build up just to get knocked down again.

Who would have thought that not having a midfield would be detrimental to a team. We were just run all over and made to look like a bunch of soft amatuers. Our best players were all behind the ball in Ginbey, Hough and Baker.
They all look good in defense and won most of their one on ones so I would be hesitant to move them but I can't help but think a midfield of Ginbey, Hough and Baker would be more competitive then Kelly, Duggan and Harley atm. We don't even look like halving a contest atm.

looks like another long season ahead.

 

[shooshka]

You realise that just before each CBD that the ruck talks in private to their midfield?
We may know Witts will win it, only their blokes know where he is going to put it.
I stated clearly that the ruck alone wont fix our midfield but pretending the ruck made a goal difference is disingenuous at best.
Just on our developing midfield, our mids are young and/or inexperienced in that HR is 19, Hutch has played 10 games, Duggan has played bugger all midfield and Bakes and Graham are playing their debut for the club and neither played a great deal of midfield at Tigers. Only Kelly was experienced and he CBF.
There may be some mid late 20s guys there but none of them have combined in the midfield and most havent played much of their career in the midfield.
If we had the dominant ruck yesterday we would have lost for sure but those midfielders would have operated with better certa8nty and wouldnt have been as badly thrashed as they were. Probably a 4-5 goal turn around.

The whole universe knew Witts was going to win the tap. But, as an opposition ruck to that you have to put your ego aside and decide where you want him to win it.

It is very easy to to position behind the ruck and stop arm momentum tapping backwards (it may go to ground very near to the contest backwards, but no distance on the tap or it goes forward). Alternatively defend the forward tap (often this may need to be done left handed, against a RH ruck).

All of a sudden your mids are defending half of the circle rather than the whole thing.

It allows better positioning both defensive and offensive. And tbh as a mid do you really care who gets a hitout stat if your ruck can say ‘the ball will go between here and here after the ball up’? (This can be done at a throw in also, in fact it is often easier)

That said, pure offensive mid coaching is also killing us - why we have all 3 mids moving offensively in the 2nd quarter onwards on the weekend was mind boggling. We knew the suns would have the advantage in the ruck, so positioning around decent defence with attacking possibility was needed. I feel like it may be a Shuey trait to want to attack at every opportunity.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[DanWCE]

The whole universe knew Witts was going to win the tap. But, as an opposition ruck to that you have to put your ego aside and decide where you want him to win it.

It is very easy to to position behind the ruck and stop arm momentum tapping backwards (it may go to ground very near to the contest backwards, but no distance on the tap or it goes forward). Alternatively defend the forward tap (often this may need to be done left handed, against a RH ruck).

All of a sudden your mids are defending half of the circle rather than the whole thing.

It allows better positioning both defensive and offensive. And tbh as a mid do you really care who gets a hitout stat if your ruck can say ‘the ball will go between here and here after the ball up’? (This can be done at a throw in also, in fact it is often easier)

That said, pure offensive mid coaching is also killing us - why we have all 3 mids moving offensively in the 2nd quarter onwards on the weekend was mind boggling. We knew the suns would have the advantage in the ruck, so positioning around decent defence with attacking possibility was needed. I feel like it may be a Shuey trait to want to attack at every opportunity.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

I don't think Shuey is responsible for CBD but he is responsible for how the team sets up around the ground. He has roved to generational rucks his entire career and as much as I love him I am starting to wonder if he's out of touch with what we have to work with in the ruck department.

If we spend training sessions having Flynn beating a ruck bag and putting it down TK and Harley's throat then that's just so unrealistic and counter productive. We need our lead ruck to swallow their pride and be a big bag of meat designed to limit the opposing rucks effectiveness and create space in congestion for our mids to shark the tap.

 

[BSD]

I haven't looked through this thread as I am still coming to terms with what happened on Sunday.

However as always, I am glass half full, and looking at things we can tighten up.

Clearly, we were smashed in the midfield. Getting players in who are willing to get their hands dirty + work hard back to support is a priority. Hall, Gross are the obvious two that could help in this area. Too many times, we have 3 mids, swarm to to the loose ball out of stoppage, instead of having a balance. This means, when they all trail, and GC win the ball, they have free players everywhere, meaning they can walk the ball out of the front of stoppage, giving our backs next to no chance of stopping the entry.

A negative which could be looked at as a positive, was there was at least 3 clear opportunities where we were rebounding off half back, moved the ball well and should have finished with a goal, but the last kick/connection, meant it was a turnover.
Hewett, missing from point blank + Dewar and Brockman both missing that final kick to a leading forward. If that can be rectified, then we can add 3 goals + the confidence we gained from moving the ball nicely, then things can start to turn.

All 3 players mentioned are highly skilled and 9/10 would have executed said skill. Given that Gold Coast pressure was elite, and all 3 are trying to get the tempo of AFL footy, we can hope that they tidy this part of the game up.

Also, I love that Dewar was given the responsibility to take the kick-ins, and hope that in time can have more confidence to be aggressive, instead of kicking long to a contest every time.

Maric should have been on the ground and taking the kick ins.
Dewar isn't an elite kick like Jetta was, can't see why he was played in the backline..

 

[Dark Sharks]

Finding it quite unbelievable nobody has pointed out the biggest positive of the game happened only a few mins in...

Whopper goal dropping into the app come Wednesday bouys


Providing the claim actually worked because my POS app just kept giving me the spinning wheel of death and telling me to wait....

 

[Kegs15]

I don't think Shuey is responsible for CBD but he is responsible for how the team sets up around the ground. He has roved to generational rucks his entire career and as much as I love him I am starting to wonder if he's out of touch with what we have to work with in the ruck department.

If we spend training sessions having Flynn beating a ruck bag and putting it down TK and Harley's throat then that's just so unrealistic and counter productive. We need our lead ruck to swallow their pride and be a big bag of meat designed to limit the opposing rucks effectiveness and create space in congestion for our mids to shark the tap.

This is a good point actually. Half-seriously, it may not be the worst plan to get Nic Nat back in as a semi-ruck coach and rucking for the B team in stoppage drills - obviously give him the instructions not to bother following up, could just see another ACL haha but still am 100% certain he'd smack around any of our current rucks at the moment.

Have the A midfield respond to being on the back foot, being conscious of their opponents - could do players like Harley, Kelly and Hewett good to practice paying opponents like Gross or Hall respect when they're on the front foot.

Would also be good practice for Flynn and Bailey - I think both of them feel like they always try and win every tap, which makes sense if they were competing against each other all preseason, but sometimes against a better ruck you need to just lock down for a nil-all draw, as if you go for the win against someone way better you more often than not concede a clear tap. Feel like you're right in that we're setting up in the same front-foot manner we always have courtesy of us having the best rucks in the comp.

NN was also such an underrated student of the game when it came to ruck setups and opposition - he'd know exactly what tactics lesser rucks employed would annoy him most.

Weirdly I still think JWilliams is the best on our list at playing against dominant rucks - he's super happy to be boring and predictable and kill any advantage in there. Hope he gets his fitness back up.

 

[Woobla Stainz]

Said it after the Richmond game and I'll say it again. Richmond and West Coast went two complete different directions. One coach saw the cliff was close and jumped, club had a fire sale of their premiership players who were still close to their top value and offloaded them. West Coast kept their coach who stubbornly thought it would turn around under him playing an outdated style and retaining their premiership players until they aged out and either retired or finally got moved on for bargain basement value.

Someone should seriously write a book on the Richmond/West Coast fall offs/rebuilds as a case of what and what not to do. Going on four straight years of 80 point losses and this is our first proper year of the rebuild. I'm tired, boss.

How has that worked out for North, they did the exact same thing

 

[Grahame]

I think Baker and Graham were awesome on the weekend, because they absolutely busted their gut to make a difference out there, so don’t get me wrong, I know what good senior players can do for a side, but they will be gone soon and we will be left without young midfielders that we really need.

FYI: almost same age as Waterman

 

[FKASC]

How has that worked out for North, they did the exact same thing

Exception to the rule? It’s Norf. They’re a basket case of a club

 

[Ambrose Burnside]

Exception to the rule? It’s Norf. They’re a basket case of a club

Doesn't this apply to us too?

 

[WCEswift]

This. this is what we need from everyone...

We need a nasty streak, makes sure they know theyve been in a game

 

[BSD]

It's time to start shaming them.

 

[FKASC]

Doesn't this apply to us too?

Were a basketcase of a team. Not a club

 

[Ruben Grubarb]

I am starting to think some dark voodoo curse got placed on us around the time we recruited Kelly, probably some twisted Geelong supporter got his mad up and conjured up a sick plan to hurt us. Don't really think that but it sure as hell looks like it, we are so bad right now and I was hoping we bottomed out last year but its looking like it definitely wasn't the coach.

He's a downhill skier like most outside players. It's no secret. They can't play in bottom 6 teams. But they look a million bucks in top 4 teams. That's why you don't spend top 10 picks on them, and it's why you recruit them at the end of your build. We grabbed him when we thought we were in the flag hunt. We should consider trading him to Fremantle for their first pick (mid teens or above, I suspect) and pay some of his salary.